ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Courtyard => Topic started by: Thorsteinn on 2012-05-02, 20:33:56
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Some BOTN 2012 vid's of Team USA that were uploaded today.
BOTN 2012 - Team USA - Jaye Brooks - First Champion's Fight - Greatsword (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=986lrV_Nq_E#ws)
BOTN 2012 - Team USA - Jade Dauser - First Champion's Fight - Greatsword - Part1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYzuMybEUkc#ws)
BOTN 2012 - Team USA - Jade Dauser - First Champion's Fight - Greatsword - Part2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc-egWI_Ouw#ws)
BOTN 2012 - Team USA - Jade Dauser - First Champion's Fight - Buckler & Sword Part 1 of 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyIoLtMhgME#ws)
BOTN 2012 - Team USA - Jade Dauser - First Champion's Fight - Buckler & Sword Part 2 of 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DySeme-K7jc#ws)
BOTN 2012 - Team USA - Jade Dauser - First Champion's Fight - Buckler & Sword Part 3 of 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNjOno24t-4#ws)
Go Team USA!
-Ivan
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Impressive bouts! Thank you for sharing Rautt! Go USA! :D
Might I ask what rules are the combatants following? They appear to me that they are using the SCA Rules of Heavy Weapons Combat only applied with steel weaponry.
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No problem!
Video's & Document of Rules. (http://www.usaknights.org/teamusa_006.htm).
Battle Of The Nations. VideoGuide ENG Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0n92OQCSCc#ws)
Battle Of The Nations. VideoGuide ENG Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWVCOZgENY0#ws)
-Ivan
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Impressive videos, now I understand. Thank you Rautt!
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Battle Of The Nations. VideoGuide ENG Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhDq_pUAOF4#ws)
Battle Of The Nations. VideoGuide ENG Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_aUlKvbC4E#ws)
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Very interesting, I'm comparing these video rules with the rules in a judicial duel and I see the differences clearly. Still, thank you.
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And remember:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/75223_402146349825012_100000889510293_1220506_613093012_n.jpg)
;D ;D ;D
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LOL! I am dying here, they meant thrusts not pricks! LOL! ;D
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Lloyd Clark said: "This was posted on the FB page -- this guy didn't make the Russian team this year:"
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Reply:
"Beat it, or I'll call the Brute Squad."
"I'm on the Brute Squad."
"You are the Brute Squad!"
Мега Босс (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtkgy2TBYOg#)
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wtf? heyyyyyyyy no fair having Sasquatch on your team
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Cross Post from the Armour Archive (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148827&start=175):
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This is purely my opinion, and is not meant as some kind of blanket statement from my Brothers.
<snip>
Here’s the bottom line, my friends. What is not evident in the videos is the overall accepted risk, and the level of pure violence necessary to take that particular list field. I love SCA rattan fencing. At its best, it is an elegant martial sport. When it is used to its potential, it can be a vehicle for self-realization and improvement. But you should never have a decent chance of going home in a puff chair.
It should never be a test of fortitude to the level that HMB style combat is. It just shouldn’t. Frankly, we only need one of those, and it should only be used for those who are driven to do so.
To be honest, if you are thinking you want to do this, just “cause it will be fun”, you really need to stop for a second, and think.
Perhaps a few stories will get across the accepted level of risk I am talking about.
It is the first day. Due to not being able to talk any of the languages, the whole USA team had been standing in armor, in the sun, for three hours. My heart rate had been steady at round 150 bpm for at least one of those hours. I had completely lost the ability to shed heat. We wound up being the sixth fight of the day. We had seen three guys get carried off on backboards already, and shuttled off into the three ambulances they had on rotation. The fight just before ours finished, and they moved one of the ambulances to the entrances of the list. The fourth guy they pulled off wasn’t moving…. At all… They were rushing to shove him in the ambulance so they could get it out of the way for us to take the field. You know those gladiator movies, where they plunge the hook into the dead guy to pull him off the arena? Yeah, that’s what it felt like.
I will never forget the look that passed between Brad and Myself. The reality of it slammed home to all of us. They closed the ambulance doors on the unmoving man at arms, and it was our turn…..
In Felix’s first one on one fight, He was fighting a Dane. Felix was doing really well. The fight ended when Felix cut the end of the Dane’s finger off. Later that day, The Dane proudly gave Felix the fingernail from his severed finger as a Martial souvenir, and promised to send him Video of the surgery.
One of the Belarusians, (I think) had his finger cut off. It was hanging on by a flap of skin and the tendon. They did not want to take him in to the hospital for such a minor injury, as they needed it for the “actual” injuries. They set the bone, and sewed it up there in site.
There was blood everywhere. At one point, I looked down on my buckler and it was smeared with blood from God know’s who or what. It became very commonplace for my companions to wash the insides of their helmets to get the blood out, so they could be ready for the next bout.
My dear friend Rudy had his moment in “deep waters”, as three men tried to beat him to his knees. He passed his test, and won the respect of every man at arms there at the cost of a broken shoulder blade, and the muscles literally torn from the bone.
Every time I went out there, I put myself in the hands of the Divine, quite literally. In the last fight, I was beaten unconscious into the dirt for the second time that day. It took much longer for me to wake up the second time. I woke up with a Russian looking at me, smiling, and embracing me as a brother would.
One of us was a hair’s breadth from going to the hospital and having a hole cut in his skull to relieve the pressure.
This has NO PLACE on an SCA battlefield… Period… I never want a requirement for SCA combat to be an up to date Last will and testament.
If you are driven to do this by the Divine, by the rage in you, by your Chivalry, by whatever it is, than use that as fuel, and be tested. For without a doubt, that is what it is.
If all this sounds heavy handed, and melodramatic…… then good. If it makes you stop and think, than it’s done its purpose.
HMB/BoTN rulesets should not be allowed to affect rules of the martial sport of SCA rattan fencing. Now, if it inspires some Future man at arms to seek noble deeds of arms, in whatever context, than THAT is an influence to be wished for.
With Respect and humility
Rob
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Damn...
Well that pretty much says it all. God bless those guys for going out there and doing the deed!
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Wow. And I mean, wow. God bless them for sure. But this is also why I have no desire to take part in it. As knightly as it may be to test yourself, I have better ways of doing so without putting myself in the hospital, which I know would be the result if I attempted this.
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Yes! ;D God Bless them indeed! ;D That was awesome of what they did. Huzzah! ;D
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Thanks for sharing that Ivan. I had not read it on AA. There's no way I would participate in BOTN this day and age. I've been injured enough by rattan sticks over the last 12+ years to know my limits.
Now, if this had been around when I was young, single and stupid(er)... ;)
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Thanks for sharing that Ivan. I had not read it on AA. There's no way I would participate in BOTN this day and age. I've been injured enough by rattan sticks over the last 12+ years to know my limits.
Now, if this had been around when I was young, single and stupid(er)... ;)
Hear hear! I commend those folks that have the gonads to participate in this type of 'extreme' sport, but I personally have no desire to engage in such a high risk activity I deem to be for less benefit than bragging rights. :-\
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I think it's great that it exists for those who want to take it to that level. But for me personally, there are several problems that stem from my line of work. I sit behind a computer all the time which means, A) I need my hands to function, and B) I can't afford the recovery time, and C) I don't have the level of athleticism needed.
I congratulate the participants for their accomplishment, but I certainly can't participate.
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I think it's great that it exists for those who want to take it to that level. But for me personally, there are several problems that stem from my line of work. I sit behind a computer all the time which means, A) I need my hands to function, and B) I can't afford the recovery time, and C) I don't have the level of athleticism needed.
I congratulate the participants for their accomplishment, but I certainly can't participate.
^ Yep, that.
And to the AA post - wow, indeed. Hanging fingers? Field of blood? No thank you. That's trying to relive battles a little *too* much for my tastes. I've had a few concussions before, had stitches a couple times, had a few hospital trips - luckily, no broken bones - but I'd prefer to not add any more of those events to my "list".
That was a very reality-is-this post. The BOTN videos I saw never showed puddles of blood, hanging fingers, or concussions. No thanks.
Although, that huge russian dude - I'm not sure if that video is funny or scary. The very last couple seconds, you can hear him club somebody in full plate, and see them fold to the ground. Eek.
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And to the AA post - wow, indeed. Hanging fingers? Field of blood? No thank you. That's trying to relive battles a little *too* much for my tastes. I've had a few concussions before, had stitches a couple times, had a few hospital trips - luckily, no broken bones - but I'd prefer to not add any more of those events to my "list".
That was a very reality-is-this post. The BOTN videos I saw never showed puddles of blood, hanging fingers, or concussions. No thanks.
Although, that huge russian dude - I'm not sure if that video is funny or scary. The very last couple seconds, you can hear him club somebody in full plate, and see them fold to the ground. Eek.
In my own case, because of my height, I would be butchered on the lists. I wouldn't mind doing something like this but less blood would be better. So I don't have to be all bloodied and tired and on a winning streak and have the family yell at me, no thank you. ;)
I think it's great that it exists for those who want to take it to that level. But for me personally, there are several problems that stem from my line of work. I sit behind a computer all the time which means, A) I need my hands to function, and B) I can't afford the recovery time, and C) I don't have the level of athleticism needed.
I congratulate the participants for their accomplishment, but I certainly can't participate.
Same here, I have my own priorities to worry about and if I come back to my job with stitches and (heaven forbid) black eyes, my co-workers would be asking too many questions and "none of your business" or any other made up excuse won't cut it. ;)
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I just keep remembering this:
This was invented by Russians, Ukrainians, and Poles.
They consider Sambo to be a sport.
The Russians even have a phrase that goes "Russians have Broad Backs!".
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The Russians even have a phrase that goes "Russians have Broad Backs!".
That is an interesting quote. :)
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As practitioners of any historically inspired martial art, the level of safety and risk you're willing to endure must never be overlooked. Arm yourself with knowledge before participating in anything.
Lloyd Clark posted on myArmoury recently about concussions, and he goes into detail about how repeated head injuries can accumulate and cause all sorts of secondary problems. It's an interesting read:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=25898 (http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=25898)
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I'm rather on the fence about it. I love the idea, but it is very rough. I mean, to put some perspective to all the ambulances, in high school sports, (football and soccer) I see a player get taken out in an ambulance about every game.
I really would love to try this out.
However, I'm no fool, and I realize it has a lot of risk, and I'd probably get chewed up bad, for lack of skill.
Maybe a lower-intensity version? I'd love to see what DOK comes up with.
BTW, speaking of Sambo, there's a huge difference between striking someone with full force on the head or body with your fist and a polearm. No amount of elan, or broad backs will let you shrug off vigourousy wielded weapondry. Especially those polearms.
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BTW, speaking of Sambo, there's a huge difference between striking someone with full force on the head or body with your fist and a polearm. No amount of elan, or broad backs will let you shrug off vigourousy wielded weapondry. Especially those polearms.
Yes but Sambo is very.. Russian (take a punch & a kick to the head in exchange for getting a good position is common in Sambo IIRC), and so is BOTN/HMB. It feels like what a Russian would come up with if they looked to create an armoured sport.
I mean look what Spetznaz has to go through in training.
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Ah, ok. I see what you're getting at. I thought you were saying that they're ok with taking hits because of sambo, and thus are cool with it if you light them up with a pollaxe from behind.
I can see your point better now.
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Thanks for sharing that Ivan. I had not read it on AA. There's no way I would participate in BOTN this day and age. I've been injured enough by rattan sticks over the last 12+ years to know my limits.
Now, if this had been around when I was young, single and stupid(er)... ;)
Hear hear! I commend those folks that have the gonads to participate in this type of 'extreme' sport, but I personally have no desire to engage in such a high risk activity I deem to be for less benefit than bragging rights. :-\
Well, I'm still able enough to want to brag so if I can get geared up and funds for the trip, I'm going to try out for it. Lot of work to do...and I am only going to be able to do it just the once as I understand it is quite an expensive undertaking. Maybe not...as I do want to attend Agincourt 2015 to celebrate the 600th anniversary!
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If anyone wants to go then they should go. 8)
I am not one of the ones that wants to go especially w/o health insurance.
However I would love to do the Laurin Tournament in the Knights category. :)
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As practitioners of any historically inspired martial art, the level of safety and risk you're willing to endure must never be overlooked. Arm yourself with knowledge before participating in anything.
Lloyd Clark posted on myArmoury recently about concussions, and he goes into detail about how repeated head injuries can accumulate and cause all sorts of secondary problems. It's an interesting read:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=25898 (http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=25898)
I have read it and I agree with most what they posted. I cannot stress enough the importance of practicing these arts with safety and if you're going all out, you got to be prepared, physically and mentally. To me, accidents happen when someone isn't prepared or made a mistake.
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I mean, to put some perspective to all the ambulances, in high school sports, (football and soccer) I see a player get taken out in an ambulance about every game.
I'd wager it's more of an insurance / cover the school's hind-end sort of thing. If somebody at BOTN gets a finger nearly cut off and isn't in an ambulance, that's pretty hardcore. And concussions / blackouts that don't require a hospital trip. BOTN and school sports both have ambulances, but the severity of the people's conditions going into them is probably different most of the time. I can't picture many people breaking an arm / leg at a school sport (or professional sports even) and saying "Nah, that's okay, I don't need to go to the hospital, just set it here". :)
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The image in my head now:
"It's just a sucking chest wound. I'm good."
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I say we wait until some BOTN hardcores reenact the Black Knight scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Although speaking of concussions and knockouts, I have seen both firsthand without hospitalization in my soccer career.
although the bone fractures usually go to the hospital.
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For some more perspective I give you: Wayne "Buck" Shelford, Captain of the New Zealand All Black's
"And now, finally, a good twelve hundred words into the article, we get to the crux of why I chose to include Shelford on the website this week – his incredible, literally balls-out actions during a match with the French national team in 1986 that was so hardcore and brutal it's simply known as the "Battle of Nantes". Actions that rank very high on the list of the most badass things ever recorded on the field of any sport throughout the course of history."
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/shelford.html (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/shelford.html)
:o :o 8)
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"And now, finally, a good twelve hundred words into the article, we get to the crux of why I chose to include Shelford on the website this week – his incredible, literally balls-out actions during a match with the French national team in 1986 that was so hardcore and brutal it's simply known as the "Battle of Nantes". Actions that rank very high on the list of the most badass things ever recorded on the field of any sport throughout the course of history."
Half of me says this is good attention and other half says "You got to be Kidding me, have not noticed this at all?" >:(