ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2011-07-16, 19:14:53
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(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284573_2243994622635_1331193069_3607835_3814264_n.jpg)
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281702_2243993982619_1331193069_3607833_7933272_n.jpg)
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/281583_2243994262626_1331193069_3607834_7931772_n.jpg)
Well my maille hauberk arrived today, I must say it was a lot less greasy than I thought it was so I am keeping the oil on it so it wont rust. Putting it on is HARD, had to get people to help me put it on. When on it's not as heavy as I thought it would be and it fits quite well. Taking it off is relatively easy. and the gambeson is more uncomfortable than wearing the maille.
Any suggestions on how to store it? Currently I'm storing it in a plastic bin and I am using the silica jell pack that came with it in the bin.
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Looks great! :)
Huzzah that does fit you very well!
Your intended storage method will be just fine. I keep my armor in a plastic travel tub with wheels. I keep the mail loosely wraped in an old slightly oily felt cloth. Congratulations on your newest addition to your kit! :)
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hey looks great!! i keep mine in a old burlap sack. now it will look great with the kettle helmet, (get a coif) and some tighter pants!! hehehe
keep up the great work
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Looks great! Since the storage question has been raised, has anyone here tried to store maille in a "Space Bag", those heavy plastic bags you vacuum the air out of to store comforters and the like?
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So I'm just gonna keep it stored how it is for now, just hope to get a burlap sack to store it as well don't want it rusting cause I like the black coating way too much as it actually looks like it's wrought iron. Any suggestions on what kind of oil to use to keep coated on it in case it ever comes off?
Only complaint I have is the sleeves are a little baggy (not nearly as baggy as the GDFB stuff), surprisingly it's easier to get my leather gauntlets on under the maille than putting them over the gambeson. It weighs around 21 pounds but when I wear it only place I feel the maille's weight is my shoulders. Not gonna tailor it just yet cause I won't have any idea what I'm actually doing and I don't wanna mess it up anybit. Wish there was maille tailoring services. My next purchase will probably be either a new gambeson or a coif, just want a few layers of linen as a gambeson cause this stuffed one is WAYYY too hot to fight in or wear.
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That's looking great! Is it mild steel? The black coating will probably wear off eventually. Mail tends to de-rust itself this way, so the coating will do the same, I hate to say. But depending on how they did it, it may remain a relatively dark color anyway, and may last a long time.
For oiling, you might consider spray-on gun oil. I haven't tried it yet, so take this with a grain of salt (most of my mail is aluminum or stainless).
I haven't tried a vacuum bag. Cool idea though.
As for the baggy sleeves, you can probably alleviate some of that just by running some laces through the mail to tie it down to your arm in several places. It takes longer to put it on, but since it's not ridiculously wide (like the "wings of mail" that you can get with a lot of other off-the-shelf mail), you can probably get close to a tailored look this way. They gave you enough length in the sleeves that once it's tied up, it'll come back behind your wrist and won't look too long.
How's the fit below the waist? Any trouble sitting down?
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Sweet! :)
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Nice! Tightening sleeves should be easy (as far as maille tailoring goes!!!!! :P)
Imagine yourself with arms outstretched in a Crucifixion pose (Ignore impulse to visualize yourself in a bloody man-diaper :o) Make a slit in the bottom of the sleeves, down until where you feel they are fitted adequately. Take the sides and lay the newly made sides overtop each other (while still wearing) and have one side overlap the other, until you feel it's an appropriate fit. This new (as of now imaginary) joining is where they will be reattached on. Mark this new line of attachment in some way. Now remove excess and reattach. done correctly and you will have new fitted sleeves! Yay for you!
Anyway, maille looks great. Now get thyself a Surcoat!
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For oiling, you might consider spray-on gun oil. I haven't tried it yet, so take this with a grain of salt (most of my mail is aluminum or stainless).
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Yep that's what I use. I do it twice a season typically. Just run a dowel or even a broom stick through the sleeves and neck hang it off somewhere you don't mind getting some oil overspray on or better yet free hang it and spray away! Of course it will be an extra filthy mess the first few times you wear it after such an application. ;)
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Very nice!
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Fits me quite well and it's only slightly longer than my gambeson as you can see and I can easily sit in it and put my hands above my head (even though it raises the maille a tiny bit). Once I get my padded chausses it shouldn't be a problem.
Currently I want to know a good source where I can get a nice linen surcoat thats custom fitting. Not something too big but I'd prefer it in linen.
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The seamstress who did my stuff is simply awesome. Her latest work, my cloak and surcote is finally finished! I will be posting pictures soon. It is beautiful.
Bjs_Bags@yahoo.com
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Sir Ulrich, where'd you get it from? How much did it set you back? I really like the look of that one...the sleeves look almost like they're tailored, although I see that you say the are not. Still, the sleeves can't be worse than the bell towers I'm working with. lol
Looks good on you, man.
Nathan, show us pics...I finally have come to a point where I know what I want, so I'll be contacting BJ in the next few weeks to discuss a jupon I want made. What's she charged you for the cloak? Might want one of those as well.
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I'll make a thread for it in a Sec. You won't believe it only cost 140. Her prices are awesome.
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That's it? For a custom made surcoat and cloak? Yea...I'm game.
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I got it from Icefalcon armory during their pre order sale, so it cost me 440 bucks not bad for maille that fits this well off the racks. And the sleeves aren't TOO bad, they're better than most the stuff I've seen, still nothing compared to the maille I saw on that one guys flickr though..
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killer deal and glad it fits man. can't wait to see it all together
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Yeah, custom fitted surcote and cloak, only 140. And man is there a LOT of fabric, and the detailing is superb. The closer you get the better it looks ;D
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Methinks Sir Nathan has replied on the wrong thread. Got more than one window open at a time, young Sir? lol
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I must have gotten lost in the Tab Jungle I have going on near the top of my screen, 'Doh! :o
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A picture of my maille actually got accepted into some medieval art groups photos of medieval armor and arms. Guess I'm lucky some of the time, though my maille is one of only 5 pics of riveted maille on the entire website, rest is butted which most people aren't impressed by these days.
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Cool! It's always nice to contribute and get noticed. :)
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Ive got a similar chainbody, i keep it on a wood hanger in my closet (lol) they tend to get heavy on the shoulders though.
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I only got one complaint about it really, I can't even handle it with bare hands, it is so abrasive on my hands and hurts to handle it without gloves. Round ring is prolly not like that and now I wish I got the smaller ringed maille cause I assume the 6MM stuff actually is softer on the hands. Or is it the opposite cause smaller rings means smaller corners which means it's also sharper. Thats the problem with online shopping I guess.
I do plan to get a short sleeved hauberk, but this one I plan to get is gonna be round ring with smaller rings, cause I think this sharp maille would cut apart any clothing I put it under, my gambeson I have is rather rough and holds up but for norman and viking reenacting I won't be able to wear it.
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I have not found the flat riveted rings to be overly brutal to my clothing...I mean, yes, there are times when it snags on my gambeson but my round ring butted hauberk used to do that as well.
However, for personal comfort, you should do as you see fit...
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Hhhm...That's rather odd. I have rather sensitive skin. (a single plant of poison ivy can turn me into a human lobster experiment) and my GDFB hauberk is perfectly fine to handle.
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It has more to do with the oil thats on the maille and my hands get mucky from it. So I usually hand it with gloves on. I would assume that the smaller maille catches more due to more rivets involved. It may be because you got the 50% non riveted links along with wedge rivets which I think catch less.
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are you putting the flat side in and the rivet head out? just wondering. it feels better on the body when you do it that way eheheh
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Ulrich, the oil is a necessary evil...you may as well get used to it, at least until you get a SS version. Keep the oil on...unless you relish the idea of filling a barrel with sand, tossing in your hauberk, and rolling it all around til the rust spots disappear, after which, you'll need to oil it again to prevent that sort of thing. It'll happen anyway, of course, just not as badly if you remove it outright.
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I'm keeping the oil on it, doesn't really matter much because my gambeson is black anyway, just annoying to get on my hands while handling the maille. When it comes to rust, I'm just gonna keep it oiled so it doesn't rust much. Other than worrying about it rusting to the point of being useless junk, rust doesn't bug me much, mainly due to the fact I LIKE my armor to look worn and old unlike most people preferring shiny and new armor.
When it comes to the side of the rivets the smaller side is on the inside and the longer side is on the outside. The inside is a LOT more smooth than the outside, I assume this is how you're supposed to wear it as it doesn't wear the gambeson out that quickly.
Some of the rings on my maille are bent, as if they tested the armor with a sword or bow before it was shipped off. I just need to replace some of these rings I think cause some are poorly riveted and wont hold well. Guess thats why wedge riveted maille is more popular.
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I recently learned that the wedge riveted mail is actually more commonly 'period' than the dome headed riveted is. There's a thread on MyArmoury that talks about wedge riveted being common for (13th-15th or 14th-16th) century german armor, but that dome headed rivets are the vast majority style prior to 13th/14th for all of europe.
I've been happy with my dome riveted so far. It'll get a "live" test at MDRF next weekend, experience thus far has just been handling, tailoring, and fitting.
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well domed can be found throughout wedge can only be found really in the 14th and 15th. so you are technically safe with either type. each modern style is just as wrong as the other when compared to existing mail so most groups accept either.
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Mines dome riveted, ALL riveted, only complaint I have is it doesn't have half solid rings but I cant really be too picky because theres NOT many places to get riveted maille in the USA. I didn't want wedge riveted because I'm portraying the 13th century mainly...
For the record heres a closeup of my maille.
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2424/1001319g.jpg)
Now I finally got around to inspecting my hauberk up close, most of the rivets are well riveted but some need replacing. One is missing its rivet but the ends of the ring are peened together so much I cant even remove the ring. Others are just poorly set and I mean VERY poorly set... Those ones are the first to go once my rings come in the mail, which should be a few weeks....
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6995/1001328p.jpg)
Heres the full hauberk
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3717/1001323rd.jpg)
Closeup of the sleeves as you can see they need a bit of tailoring.
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5193/1001326i.jpg)
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5838/1001327c.jpg)
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Yeah, I think that's just the reality of buying riveted mail. Some rivets will be done poorly. That's why I'd like to start getting to some hand-riveting myself, so I can fix mistakes, or the inevitable (but hopefully just occasional) popped rivet.
Overall I think the rivets are pretty strong most of the time. I'm used to aluminum mail. And a hauberk/haubergeon is going to take much less of a beating just from wearing it than the chausses will. It's amazing how much force can get applied to the rings in those just by walking.
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Then I'll have to keep in mind when I make chausses I am going to carefully rivet each ring, but that may be a pain. Making my own shouldn't be TOO hard I just need a source of solid rings so I don't have to rivet each individual ring, or maybe I should just buy them from Icefalcon instead, make it my next major purchase. Only problem is it wont have the black texture my hauberk has.
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Last I spoke with IceFalcon (a few months ago?) he doesn't have a source for individual solid rings (9mm stainless is what I asked for, though). Rivited mail isn't really any "harder" than butted, but it's easily twice as time consuming since you have to weave the rings slightly different to keep them from deforming, and having to constantly swap needlenose for riviting pliers and then setting the rivits. When I finished with my mail skirt a week or two ago, I had 3 blisters on my hand from the riviting pliers.
I found an interesting post on MyArmoury about the rivited mail. Seems that some places have someone who just builds "squares" of mail, and then to make chausses, hauberks, haubergeons, etc, they assemble the squares into the final shape. That explains the always tube shape, and possibly why some rivits are set poorly - multiple makers working on a single item.
I've got the mail riviting pliers and I'm quickly getting used to working with mail again, if there's any interest I can host a "workshop" at my house or something.
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I think we can drum up interest, Sir James...maybe make a caravan out to see you. Since we aren't altogether sure that there will be electricity and running water, we'll bring batteries and bottled water. LOL
I'm kidding...I know WV is mostly modern. ;)
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I wouldnt mind learning how to tailor maille myself, my maille needs a bit of tailoring in the sleeves but I wont try it till I got 9MM butted rings at least, because I plan to tailor it with butted links first then replace them with riveted links afterward so making a mistake would be easier to fix.
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Working with mail requires a lot of manual strength...by the time you're finished, Ulrich, you'll have a steel hard grip.
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Well my rings did come, but the tool is still on back order which irritates me, They dont exactly match the maille from Icefalcon but I'm gonna have to make due.. Once I tailor my maille I should be OK as long as I can blacken the rings to make them match the rest of the hauberk. Not sure how to do it though.
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If you are ever needing a particular itemor something tailored, Marc at Cap-a-pie is a good friend of mine and, although a little expensive, will sort you out with exactly what you want. There is even The Maille tailor, Gavin, that works with Marc on those more tailored items.
http://www.capapie.co.uk/index.html (http://www.capapie.co.uk/index.html)
G.
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Wow...I really like the look of his hauberks. Do these suffer the Bingo Wing malady as well? I'd love to send him my hauberk to get tailored.
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Wow...I really like the look of his hauberks. Do these suffer the Bingo Wing malady as well? I'd love to send him my hauberk to get tailored.
I`m not too sure to be perfectly honest. I`m sure that if you specified a tailored arm then that`s what you would get.
Marc is one of a very few people who have access, for his research, to origional pieces in the back rooms at Leeds Armouries ;)
G.
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Shame they're in the UK, which means shipping would cost a fortune, thats probably where I would of gotten my maille though cause I couldn't find any half riveted half non with dome rivets in the USA and this place seems to sell it. I do want my maille tailored and I am gonna have to buy some rings from icefalcon to make it look good as I don't think the 9.5MM rings from GDFB would look good on my blackened hauberk with 9MM rings, the GDFB rings are SLIGHTLY thicker than the Icefalcon ones too, I dunno if thats better or worse but it makes me rethink my purchase :-\
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Gosh, I'm torn...do I go for the tailored hauberk from there to the tune of just under $1000 USD after shipping and packing...or do I go for a breastplate instead and hack up my existing hauberk to make voiders, mail standard and whatever else it might be useful for?
I could always go back to my Crusader persona at a later date. I can't do like Sir Wolf and keep each kit...I'd be 60 before I could complete all the ones I want. I need to go back a few centuries as well...I'm particularly interested in Frankish arms and armor during Charles Martel's time. And then go forward til about the first half of the 16th C...a kit for each one.
Yea...don't have the time or money. If I hit the lottery, well...you'll all be invited to my new museum! lol
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Yup found out they're 17 gauge while the Icefalcon maille is 18 gauge. So much for a consistent look, oh well gonna use them for mittens while I'm gonna buy some Icefalcon rings to replace the rings in my hauberk that the rivets fell out or was poorly riveted. I want my rings to be all even on my hauberk and consistent, I don't mind if my coif or mittens don't match my hauberk though cause it's a different piece.
Man I am so picky with keeping everything consistent but meh you're talking to someone who likes everything to be even. I do plan to blue the rings to make them look consistent and I am going to buy a GDFB coif chop up the aventail so it's got a square front and back to stop it from sliding around and add a ventail to it to protect my face using the extra maille I cut off the aventail. Any suggestions on what one to get? I got a lot of choices of rivet types I could go for wedge or round.