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Ferocity, meekness, and chivalry in the modern world.
Sir Edward:
--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2008-04-04, 15:41:09 ---It's interesting what you've observed with the children in your classes. At times I feel I could easily lose confidence in humanity (especially reading comments left for youtube videos!!), but in reality, we're all instinctively good at self-regulating (individually and as a group) with or without exterior influence. Kids will create their own rules and sense of fair play. But this in no way negates the need for a source of good guidance, especially in the presence of very poor guidance. Kids are exposed to maladaptive influences all the time. So I agree with what you paraphrased from Lewis, that such imbalances generally have to be trained into people. I think it happens more often than not due to cultural misunderstanding of these dangers, or from people acting more towards their own self interests.
--- End quote ---
Part of me is kicking myself for writing this, at least the way I worded some of it. I hate falling into generalizations.
I think humans in general, while instinctively good at self-regulating and cooperating, also instinctively put themselves first. Proper guidance can help bring about a balance between opposing forces-- what's good for the self, or what's good for the group as a whole. And sometimes, doing what's right can also be selfishly motivated (to get a good reputation, for instance). So I don't think poor behavior is always learned externally, just as good behavior isn't always either. Growth comes from a variety of factors, external guidance being one, and personal experience being another.
But since I'm more of an armchair philosopher, rather than a psychiatrist, maybe I should stop here. :)
Sword Chick:
Please forgive me. Random babbling ahead. And, no, I don't really know what I'm talking about. Okay, you've been warned...
Ed's comments remind me of the social dilemmas common in game theory. Where it makes sense for an individual to act in his own self interests, however, when the majority act that way then everyone loses.
Many religions teach that one receives a personal benefit for acting for the greater good. If you are a good person, you'll go to heaven. Perhaps theologists are experts in game theory.
I think it must be very difficult to be a man in our present culture. Men's roles have gone through as much upheaval as women's, but being men, they aren't allowed to talk about it. :) Their roles as breadwinner, head of the family and protector have all been diminished by political correctness. What does that leave?
I'm terribly politically INcorrect. And I have a hero fixation. I never understood the appeal of the "bad boy." I much prefer the knight in shining armour.
One last babble for now, addressing what Bill has noticed in his classes. It's a quote (though I don't remember who said it) "A hundred years from now, it won't matter how much money I made, what kind of car I drove or how big my house was. But the world will be different because I was important in the life of a child."
Sir Edward:
I agree with everything you just said. :)
It's interesting though that there are other theories tied into game theory. For instance, it has often traditionally been held that in a capitalist economy, everyone acting in their own best interest builds a stronger economy, thus benefiting everyone. But there's far more to it in game theory. It was amusing in the movie "A Beautiful Mind" seeing how this was being applied to "getting the girl". :)
Sword Chick:
There is a silly off topic thread on myArmoury that has a squirrel in armour and it reminded me of the Redwall books by Brian Jacques. The target audience is 9-13 years old, but they are fun books for grown-ups too. :) On the surface, they are simply exciting little adventure books, but if you really examine them for what they are teaching kids there are some wonderful lessons on chivalry and what it means to be a heroic person. His characters also deal with those issues of handling ferocity and meekness. The badgers are likely to be berserkers in battle and the mice must learn to be ferocious.
One of my favorite themes is how he treats the female characters in his books. He has female warriors such as Jess the Squirrel, an archer, and he has those that have more traditional roles as caregivers. It’s the more traditional female characters that resonate with me for rather obvious reasons. What’s nice about his approach is that they are strong, important and heroic characters. You don’t have to be a warrior to be a hero (or heroine). Those that stay home and mind the abbey are as tough as those that go out to fight.
Even if you never read the books, if you ever get the opportunity to hear Brian Jacques speak you should take advantage of it. He's a very entertaining and humorous speaker. He also talks about chivalric attitudes and what it means to be brave. He also says his books “are all about good vs. evil. And, just like in real life, good always wins.” That’s something we should all strive to believe.
While I’m babbling on about fictional characters, does anyone else remember Billy Jack? (“I’m going to take my right foot and hit you on your right cheek and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.” Wicked cool. Sort of like Christian’s Scheitelhau to Bill’s head at WMAW.) Billy Jack is a character who has had a personal struggle with his own ferocity. Keeping it in check causes other characters to misinterpret that as meekness. It’s when he gives in to it, though with good cause, that brings his downfall.
Yes, the creatures of Redwall and Billy Jack are fictional characters. However Brian Jacques and Tom Laughlin deliberately created these characters and stories for the purpose of teaching moral lessons. Isn’t it interesting that they had financial success doing so? The Redwall books are a huge success and even spawned a short lived television show on PBS. At the time of its release, Billy Jack was the most successful independent film ever made.
Christian Tobler:
"I just go BERSERK!"
Ah, Billy Jack. My life must've come some strange full-circle to find my name in the same paragraph as his! ;) That's definitely one of those movies that has its own crazy-cool to it - kinda like Adam West, speaking of conversations coming full circle...
It's rather amazing that Laughlin did the far more meaningful "Billy Jack" after the blatant "bikers go on a gang rape spree" exploitation film that introduced the Billy Jack character, "The Born Losers".
I haven't read the Redwall books, but have seen a handful of the animated versions. Those are great...sort of like Disney's Robin Hood, but more serious and without the cheeze factor.
Best,
CHT
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