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Late 12th / Early 13th Century Kit

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Sir Brian:
Greetings Silvanus!
Great to see you again on the forum! I concur with Sirs Wolf & Ed in that your harness is pretty much on the mark for the time period you was going for. Having seen your harness first hand just this past Sunday, I think it is exceptionally well done!  :)

I didn’t notice on Sunday if you had gilded spurs or not and if you don’t have any spurs than that would be the only recommendation I could think of to add to your kit.  :-\

I do like that sword belt you are considering on adding! I’ll have to book mark that for adding it to my Teutonic knight harness.  ;)


--- Quote ---One of the most important symbols of a knight was his gilt spurs. A squire wore silver spurs. The distinction was enormous in the Middle Ages. This quotation, from the 18th century, points to that distinction: "Anciently the Difference between the Knight and Esquire was, that the Knight wore gilt Spurs,...and the 'Squire silver'd ones" (1728, Oxford English Dictionary).
--- End quote ---

Silvanus:

--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2009-09-04, 14:38:26 ---I'd love to see pictures of the whole thing too.  As Wolf said, it reads pretty good.

The kinds of historical accuracy errors you probably have are the same ones that plague all of us, just because commodity off-the-shelf armor usually is made with certain flaws. It typically lacks the tailoring that's necessary to make it act like a "second skin". This is particularly true with the sleeves and leggings. Looking at your avatar photo, it looks like the sleeves are about 3/4 or 2/3 length, and of course you have the MRL style mail gauntlets. In the late 12th and early 13th, this should be a full length sleeve with integrated gauntlet, and the sleeves should be tapered to contour with the lower arm instead of gaping open. Since what you have is riveted, this would be hard to change on the existing hauberk, but not impossible. The half sleeves work well if you move into the early 14th and start wearing some plate elements. But personally, this is one area I don't mind cheating on, just because of the availability of armor and the impracticality of tailoring it yourself.

This goes for the leggings too. It's hard to make a "one size fits all" offering that will fit people and move correctly. Most people end up with a baggy mail tube hanging over their legs. Unless you make it yourself, I'm not sure this can be avoided. But since you mentioned it's butted links, you can always taper it by removing material, and add some expansion triangles around the knee area so it still bends properly. The legs are probably the hardest to deal with, because there are so few offerings out there, and as I'm discovering, the tailoring of it is just a nightmare. Most people, I think, tend to overlook this and don't wear leg armor if they're trying to do a 12 century sort of look. The fact that you have mail chauses is awesome. :)

Please don't take any of this as criticism! It's great that you're including all of these components, and I'm just pointing out these things because you asked. My kit has suffered from some of the same problems, and it's an on-going struggle to improve it. In some ways, I'm still less period correct with round butted aluminum mail, but I started making it before you could buy all this great riveted stuff that's out there now.

It's always useful to know where you are inaccurate and where you can improve things. :)

Speaking of the mail gauntlets, how do you like them? I just ordered a pair myself, and my plan is to take the plate cuffs off.



--- End quote ---


Thank you Sir Edward.

It's somewhat comforting to know that even you gentlemen have trouble/concerns maintaining a completely historically accurate kit.

I take no advice as criticism, so please feel free to be brutally honest about your suggestions. I've scoured the Osprey Guides about my time period, and am still uncertain. Should I invest in a pair of leather or metal greaves to wrap around my shins?

Also, what did you think of the belt I hope to get? .. http://www.realarmorofgod.com/store/html/Products/Historical-Clothing/Medieval-Men/12th-Century-Sword-Belt-806.html (As far as I can determine, it seems accurate, and aesthetically pleasing.)

I love the mail gauntlets, but agree with Sir Wolf that the plate should come of, in which case I may need bracers?

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I realize that you and perhaps many of the other knights here are at least a century or two after my period. And thank you for welcoming me to the Forum.

And I will get some photos this weekend.

Silvanus

Silvanus:
Hail Sir Brian  :)

It was good to see you this past Sunday! Thanks for the positive feedback, and any advice you have, please offer it.

I am not sure I've "earned" my spurs yet.  ;)  I was hoping to add them last to my harness, after it's complete as possible, as the crowning piece.

Yes that belt is making my mouth water.  ;D

Sir Edward:

I think the sword belt looks pretty good from the photo.

I'd be tempted to look into something similar. I have a double-wrap belt, but it's a single frog, so it wants to let the sword hang vertically, which is a problem of course.

Silvanus:
Hi All -

Here are the photos I promised earlier. Again please be brutally honest about what you would change.







Here below is a project I am working on to add mail to my boots:






Some sword work in harness:





Notice the sword frog and scabbard flapping around....







Well that's it. The sword frog is definitely not a go. I really must get this more accurate, secure sword belt: http://www.realarmorofgod.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=806

When I remove the plates from the gauntlets, should I then get a set of leather vambraces?

Thanks again for any and all advice.

Silvan

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