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Katana vs. Longsword

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Sir Douglas:
^Ha! Indeed. ;D

Sir William:
I love R. Lee Ermey but that doesn't mean I think the man gets his words from on High if you know what I mean.  It was entertaining and completely biased- it isn't hard to tell that Ermey bought into that ZOMG NINJAZ RULE collective of idiots.  Had he done that test with a 14th C saber I believe the results would've been closer.


--- Quote ---Lacked the comparative measure in martial skill and discipline, Ian (but it is my opinion). If these cultures ever warred with each other in their time, it would certainly be interesting on the battlefield.
--- End quote ---

I have to disagree.  I get that your involvment in eastern martial arts may color your outlook but as a knight re-enactor, you should also apply such scholarship to the western martial arts- that is, if you are at all interested in a fair, learned comparison.  I think a lot of the mystique surrounding Japanese culture is drawn from the relative secrecy with which Japan held onto its customs, especially with regard to weapons and warfare.  Naturally it became a huge phenomenon because it was relatively unknown even going back 40-some odd years ago. 

I will agree with you that the katana is probably the best cutting implement if we take it on its own merits with no other qualifiers- it has been shown that as far as cutting prowess goes, in general curved swords fare better than their straight-bladed counterparts due to the shaping of the edge which affords a longer/better cutting surface if you will- however, I do not think it would have fared as well against a typical knight's 14C harness, which was quite different from the armor it was built to combat (14th C Japan, not the later Meiji restoration for instance). 

SirNathanQ:

--- Quote from: Lord Dane on 2015-01-05, 05:10:53 ---Not referencing gun powder or other weapons outside of katana and longsword. Sabers are not being considered in my points or opinions. I also studied traditional Aikido in the Master Ueshiba methods also small circle style and Aiki-ju-jitsu and some Kendo. That compliments my Japanese study. We all have our opinions. :)

--- End quote ---
We all certainly have our opinions, but I believe that your opinion of the west lacking "skill" or "discipline" simply doesn't stand up to honest, informed scholarship. Having studied both hemispheres of martial culture (HEMA, karate, Muy Thai and Jujitsu) and history I can tell you that both military cultures had extremely effective martial arts. I am also extremely interested in how you plan to illustrate to me the lack of discipline of Western warriors throughout the centuries. Specifically I would love to hear about the lack of discipline on the part of the Roman Legions, the late medieval/renaissance Swiss pikeman and the 18th/19th centuries militaries.

Lord Dane:
Keep in mind Nathan, I was only targeting a specific time reference limited to the 'medieval era' alone at its peak utilizing only long sword and katana. Outside those eras, you would have dramatically different results I'm sure. It is (as always) just an opinion based on my experience. And I did not say they lacked 'any martial skill or discipline'. I just think it was not as focused or culturally practiced 'as intensely' as the Eastern cultures (specifically Japan) when the western world was in decline and finding itself again. They both suffered their own decadent periods.

I would never say the Romans lacked it. To the contrary as in their time, they excelled at it better than anyone. I honestly felt there was a serious lack of military discipline amongst Europeans that wasn't really consolidated into a concentrated effort until the Crusades began to rejuvenate the warrior culture that seemed always present in some other time periods of the same region. It was almost like it needed to be reinvented again into the mainstream of society. 

The martial culture became an ideal of the Western world again and seemed reborn and progressed itself through unified efforts to campaign into other regions (mostly for the religious zeal of the Catholic church) when it was appealing to the masses of warriors looking for redemption. Comparatively, I always felt it was a constant part throughout the traditional practices of the Far East (like Japan) as it appeared to always been culturally practiced in their warrior culture. I know this is more opinionated than objective in analysis but it is just how I see it.     

SirNathanQ:
Ok, so speaking in the context of the medieval period (which utilized far more weapons of war than the longsword and katana, even among the elite martial artists of the period). Also the notion that the medieval period was a "decline" and "decadent" is a fallacy stemming from renaissance ideas about society before Roman influence.
And your thesis that martial arts " was not as focused or culturally practiced 'as intensely' as the Eastern cultures (specifically Japan) when the western world was in decline" doesn't really hold up to the evidence. The spiritual/personal development aspect of Japanese martial arts occurred after Tokugawa enforced peace, when martial culture lacked a battlefield to fight on. This "focus" you refer to is actually a symptom of the pacification of those martial arts. Before that, they were utilitarian fighting arts like any other.
And what exactly do you mean in stating that martial arts weren't as culturally practiced? Both Japanese and European martial arts were mostly practiced by their socially equivalent military elite, the Knights and Samurai. In fact, I would argue that European martial arts were more culturally practiced, as wealthy non-nobles could afford a teacher, and because we have evidence of non-knights practicing martial arts, while in Japanese culture, martial arts were strictly retained only for the noble elite. In fact, most non-nobles could not own weapons, especially those weapons of the elite, while Europe saw very little restrictions on weapon ownership, and even the prestigious sword had a large non-noble market demand.   

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