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Historical HEMA Tournaments and Deeds of Arms
Ian:
--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2014-06-05, 20:27:38 ---
It's not that they're unsuitable, just some are more suitable than others.
As a comparison, the Albion Meyer will work for both. But most of the flex is in the last half of the blade, so they tend to bend around parries a little more than would be preferable. The A&A Fechterspiel works great for Harnessfechten. It's slightly more hard-hitting in Blossfechten though, because it is slightly more rigid.
Basically, I feel there's a "sweet spot" that's slightly more rigid in Harnessfechten than in Blossfechten.
The same comparisons can be made in the Synthetics too. The Rawlings are so flimsy, that they suck for half-swording, winding, or any bind-work in general. The Purple Heart synthetics have a flex that's more realistic (plus have thicker tips too).
--- End quote ---
Thank you! That makes sense. I just don't like it when people make an assertion without an explanation. That's why I didn't except that originally :)
Sir Edward:
--- Quote from: Ian on 2014-06-05, 20:26:25 ---Guessing and using thought experiments and anecdotal evidence and false comparisons doesn't teach us anything. I want to know the facts before coming to a conclusion on which is better based on real evidence. My only personal preference for steel is that it's 'cooler.' lol :)
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I get that too. :) It is cooler, it's more realistic, and can absolutely be done safely.
Actually this brings up another interesting point. One of the reasons steel can be safer, is that people know it's capable of hitting hard, so they're psychologically primed to respect it, and be safe with it. With plastics and wooden wasters, your brain clicks over and says "it's just wood/plastic, it's safe!" and you can find yourself ramping up the power. With wooden wasters in particular, that's a bad thing.
As an aside, they use steel at the WMAW deeds of arms, including steel trainer heads on spears. I think only the poleaxes were non-steel. I would have no problem going in there and fighting any of them, using steel. Because I know they're safety conscious and won't get crazy with it.
Ian:
Alright, so I talked to Greg about this.
WMAW and a lot of the North American guys require perf plate welded in to the helmet or segmented ocularia to allow for thrusting. The Italians restrict technique to more cuts but have no regulations on helmet ocular style.
The half-swording video I saw was North American guys, the Italians don't do it as much. The tournament in Italy seems to have been more focused on the LH aspect than the WMA aspect of things so the technique is different. WMAW on the other hand is more martially oriented and does have more safety regulations in place.
So at least in those two cases (WMAW vs Torneo del Cigno Bianco), the more serious martial artists using steel are using perf plate or segmented eyes, the more LH oriented guys are using modified technique.
Sir Edward:
That's good to know. I didn't take a close look at anyone's helms at WMAW to notice what they did in the occularia, except that of course several people use the Windrose fencing helms (and I have one of those now, with WMAW in mind).
Sir James A:
I figured that much on the perf plate, as I've seen some helmets sold with it as an option. :)
I don't think there is such thing as a universal "better" on wooden waster vs steel trainers. To me, what is better depends on the intent of the group or demonstrations.
Is steel better for historical appearance? Yes (Pro)
Is steel considerably harder on equipment, increasing time and cost of maintenance? Yes (Con)
Are wasters a "sword" to the common folk? Not so much (Con)
Are they considerably easier and cheaper to maintain and less destructive to equipment? Yes (Pro)
As Sir Edward said, the trade-off in safety is all about the head/face. For me, if something goes wrong, I would rather break my arm from a wooden waster than be stabbed in the eye from a steel trainer. I also don't want to be putting out as much money in maintenance and gear replacement (from using steel) as we raise in an entire season if there is another suitable option (wooden wasters).
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