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Historical HEMA Tournaments and Deeds of Arms
Ian:
These guys (that's Greg Mele on the left) are thrusting with steel and no perf plates at the Torneo del Cigno Bianco that they all just came back from in Verona, Italy. These are not BotN type fighters, these are more the WMA and living history type folks. This is very similar to the Laurin Tournament that used to exist. My point is, this isn't the brute squad of BotN, but these guys are safely using steel and thrusting. You'll see in the other photo the men-at-arms division don't even fight with visors. In the bottom photo you will see Christian Cameron and Sean Hayes off to the side spectating. If you're friends with them on facebook you'll also see videos of them half-swording but I can't link them here (they're uploaded directly to facebook).
The men-at-arms division don't even fight with visors:
Sir Patrick:
Just my 2 cents, but accidents will happen with either steel trainers or wooden wasters. Remember when John Clements concussed his cap-a-pie opponent with a pommel strike during that segment on "Medieval Fight Book"? And of course Sir James knows all about the dangers of wooden weapons ;). What gauge helms are you guys using? Icefalcon told me anything less than 10 gauge wouldn't keep you alive for BOTN combat. What I don't get is how these guys can use steel without any eye protection. Our own Lord Rodney had a sliver of metal go through is ocular and slice up his nose during a bout, if I recall from an old MyArmoury post.
Don Jorge:
No thrusting makes it possible for BOTN...
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Ian:
I've decided to start a new discussion because I don't want to kill the VARF stuff. The Order's demo was way too cool to be overshadowed.
OK... so let's talk about steel vs other forms of weapons when it comes to tournament.
I want to steer the discussions away from the BOTN / ACL type combat. While I respect the hell out of the men and women who do it, it's as previously discussed a brawl with overbuilt armor to compensate for the 'every weapon is just a mace in drag' aspect of the sport. The goal is to beat people senseless. It's awesome to watch, and badass as a sport, but it's not about historical technique or equipment, end of story.
What I find to be the pinnacle of the HEMA / WMA art form is what I will call the Living History HEMA tournament style. It's a style of tournament dedicated to the two things I'm most drawn to in the modern medieval world, the historical fighting arts of our ancestors combined with the historically correct gear and costume. It's about recreating the Medieval Deed of Arms as it was. This is what I love about Medievalism. I want to recreate and know what it was like, I don't want to turn the Middle Ages in what I wish they could have been, I want to discover the truth and feel the real thing.
When I refer to this style of tourney, I'm talking about things like the Torneo del Cigno Bianco, and of the Laurin Tournament. I don't think Laurin happens anymore but it's just plain awesome. Look at the photos of either of these events and you will feel like you've jumped in to the pages of a 14th century illuminated manuscript.
One thing you'll always see in these tournaments is that they are using steel weapons. They're using historical gear, and steel weapons. They use half-swording, they thrust... and they don't get serious injuries. Obviously there are unavoidable risks that are inherent in a combat sport, but anyone who participates would be a fool to not realize that going in. They're using steel, and they're doing it safely. Some of the guys don't even fight with visors on their helmets. What are they doing that other groups aren't to prevent injury? One important thing to note is these guys are not all Gregor Clegane (The Mountain that Rides) wannabes like some of the BotN guys, they are a lot less crazy.
(And yes, that last image is a steel poleaxe thrust to the jewels)
Laurin Tournament:
Sir Patrick:
According to the website, the knights have to use a visor as the whole body counts as a target. Men-at-arms may not be struck in the face, so they don't have to use a visor. I wonder if the low injury factor us the result of the fighting style. They fight for points rather than submission, so with the emphasis on technique maybe there is more control.
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