Main > The Round Table
Franklin school stabbing. Are some people just born Evil?
Sir William:
--- Quote from: scott2978 on 2014-06-11, 00:33:58 ---This is another question I have often pondered. What is evil? As a full time GM of role playing games I often must portray good and evil convincingly to the players, and in a game like D&D or Pathfinder the difference makes a big difference. But I often find in writing complex stories for the players to participate in, that the definition of "evil" depends on the perceptions of the player. I can demonstrate by asking the age old D&D question "So, what do you do with the baby orcs?" If you kill them while they are helpless babies, is that evil? If you spare them and they grow up to attack innocent people, does that justify killing the next bunch of baby orcs? The same kind of thinking can be applied to real life. But I confess this is merely academic, because the reality of life is much more black and white than art would have us believe.
One thing I can say from personal experience is that some human beings simply do not feel anything resembling common decency and humanity. Perhaps that, in it's fullness, is really the definition of evil.
Scott
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What you described (bolded above) is akin to sociopathy; those who do not recognize rules or boundaries- it simply isn't in their mindset. Does that make them evil, or simply untethered to society's dictates w/regard to personal behavior? The lack of such doesn't necessarily mean that such a one will ultimately be evil, but you can see how it'd be easier for him/her to be so. Still, people with Asperger's struggle to be empathetic/sympathetic because they're not wired to from the start; that lack of empathy can be misconstrued as lack of humanity for those who do not know (as I once did not). Thorsteinn on here (you may also know him from AA) is one such person.
As for the baby orcs, well some might see it as evil, I call it pragmatic.
Aiden of Oreland:
Simply because an orc is an orc, does that make him a bad person? Or is it the orc that raises that orc to be that way. Suppose there is a 3rd option, to not kill nor simply spare, but to raise it up and teach it good from evil. Some people act in evil simply because what they are doing they view as the "right thing". Like the Nazis thought they were performing good. But most of us and the rest of the world saw was an act of evil. Its all truly opinion when you get down to the dirt of it. Not saying the other side is right of course, because I see that as evil and what we here do in the name of chivalry is good. Do you get what I am saying?
Sir Martyn:
--- Quote from: Sir William on 2014-06-11, 16:05:40 ---What you described (bolded above) is akin to sociopathy; those who do not recognize rules or boundaries- it simply isn't in their mindset.
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We all know Orcs are inherently evil ;)
Aye - it is not from just thoughts or even words, but most importantly the actions one takes (or fails to take) that we discern where true evil lies.
I'd add that no one is perfect - while the example you've cited Naythan is, in my view, an extreme case, the potential to act for good or evil lies within everyone. The question is how & whether you act on those impulses, be they good or bad. Tis also why positive examples, role models and structures to help form and encourage the positive vaules are also so important.
Sir William:
--- Quote from: Sir Aiden on 2014-06-11, 16:22:17 ---Simply because an orc is an orc, does that make him a bad person? Or is it the orc that raises that orc to be that way. Suppose there is a 3rd option, to not kill nor simply spare, but to raise it up and teach it good from evil. Some people act in evil simply because what they are doing they view as the "right thing". Like the Nazis thought they were performing good. But most of us and the rest of the world saw was an act of evil. Its all truly opinion when you get down to the dirt of it. Not saying the other side is right of course, because I see that as evil and what we here do in the name of chivalry is good. Do you get what I am saying?
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I get that you might be looking for a more solid answer- but for me it is simple. Orcs should be put to death the moment they draw breath. ;)
All kidding aside, you make a valid point- what's evil (or not) is up to the observer to decide for themselves; that Hitler thought he was in the right did not make him so. He preached and practiced racial genocide on an obscenely large scale- granted, he's not the only one to have done so, he's the example you chose so I'm using it. But you may be right; our societal mores are drawn from how we're raised and what we're taught- but that does not absolve us from culpability; just because you're wrong and don't know it, doesn't mean you're off the hook. Ignorance is not an adequate defense.
I'll leave you with a quote from Kingdom of Heaven that sums up my thought perfectly:
"None of us know our end, really, or what hand will guide us there. A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus," or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that."
Thorsteinn:
Saw this today on the AA.
--- Quote ---"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin
--- End quote ---
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