Main > The Armoury
13th and 14th c. Kits
Sir William:
--- Quote from: Sir Ulrich on 2014-02-20, 06:57:46 ---Flat ring round riveted has issues with being a cheesegrater to gambesons.
--- End quote ---
Aiden, I would regard this as a "your mileage may vary" comment. My hauberk, which I've had these past 10 or so years is a flat ring pin-riveted affair; I've not experienced the cheese grater issue that Ulrich has, despite having the same gambeson I've always had since I first got that hauberk- until he mentioned it, I didn't know it was an issue.
Sir James A:
--- Quote from: Sir William on 2014-02-21, 14:44:14 ---
--- Quote from: Sir Ulrich on 2014-02-20, 06:57:46 ---Flat ring round riveted has issues with being a cheesegrater to gambesons.
--- End quote ---
Aiden, I would regard this as a "your mileage may vary" comment. My hauberk, which I've had these past 10 or so years is a flat ring pin-riveted affair; I've not experienced the cheese grater issue that Ulrich has, despite having the same gambeson I've always had since I first got that hauberk- until he mentioned it, I didn't know it was an issue.
--- End quote ---
Seconded, I've used primarily 9mm flat ring pin riveted mail (wedge only once) for the last few years and have not had any snags or tears from it.
I think the mail is half of the equation - the garment fabric is the other. Lower thread counts, or looser threads, probably makes it easier to snag. My IceFalcon gambeson and Revival Clothing Arming Coat are both doing fine; gambeson has had minimal use but my arming coat is my normal wear, and the only holes it has after 2 full seasons are the holes I put in it myself... and a couple I had to fix from arming points tearing through, but that's not mail related.
edit: Not to say that the wedge riveted isn't a smoother surface than the pin riveted - it is - the difference in surface texture on it is often negligible unless your arming garment is prone to snagging or tearing
As a side note, wedge riveted doesn't seem to catch on "itself" as much as pin does, either. Particularly important when doing the "mail dance" to get a hauberk/haubergeon on. The wedge can still do the "roll" catch, where it rolls up on itself, as can happen when it is tightly fitted, so it isn't flawless, but can be regarded as better. It's also more expensive, and if you go for stainless mail - considerably more expensive.
scott2978:
I have both pin and wedge riveted mild steel maille, and while I like the wedge much more, the pin was fine to start with. Also I think the wedge riveted rings are a lot easier to rivet, which makes a difference if you want to do much tailoring and when you need to replace broken rings. Alternating solid rings was historical and will save you a few ponds of weight (and a lot of time if you plan to do any tailoring) as well as causing fewer snags and burst rivets.
As for the "cheesegrater" effect, I admit that the pin rivet rings catch on almost everything a lot more than wedged which has nothing to get caught on, but your fabric generally isn't going to get chewed up by it. I'd say that the comment reminds me that most cheap India made maille has poorly punched rings that leave sharp edges on the inner circumference. Those sharp edges on the rings are what chews up your linen.
scott2978:
I should add here that Royal Oak Armory is who made my entire plate harness, helm to sabatons. Jeffrey Hildebrandt is really great to work with. Nice to see his work on someone else here.
Maybe he could be added to the links page as a resource?
Aiden of Oreland:
Alright, that solves my mitten problem. Also, from what you all tell me, I shouldn't really worry about my maille messing up my garment. Which brings me to the next part that must be figured out about my kit, where can I get a gambeson? Capapie has some, or I could go with a cheaper one from KoA. I would make one, but I am going to save all of the custom stuff for when I stop growing, save, my surcoat and additions to my maille. Speaking of surcoat, i have to get back to my heraldic design! In addition, I am actually surprised that it is not there scott.
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