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Suspension Question

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Sir Patrick:
I've got a Del Tin 5140 I want to make a scabbard for, but I'm not sure what type of suspension system was used in this era (mid13th cent). Are they full-on plaque belts at this point or 2- or 3-pointers?  Advice (or better still pics) would be most helpful. Effigies are tough to tell from since they are lying down. Link below to the sword in question.

http://www.myarmoury.com/review_dt5140.html

Ian:

--- Quote from: Sir Patrick on 2014-01-25, 17:13:28 ---I've got a Del Tin 5140 I want to make a scabbard for, but I'm not sure what type of suspension system was used in this era (mid13th cent). Are they full-on plaque belts at this point or 2- or 3-pointers?  Advice (or better still pics) would be most helpful. Effigies are tough to tell from since they are lying down. Link below to the sword in question.

http://www.myarmoury.com/review_dt5140.html

--- End quote ---

Do you mean the 14th century? That's a 14th century sword style.

Give me a specific date range and then I can give you a better idea on what you're looking at suspension wise.

Sir Patrick:
Well I meant 14th century :). 1360ish is the date range I'm coming up with on this one. It's item # IX.16 at the Royal Armoury at Leeds. I tried searching their database, but it's incomplete and that item isn't listed yet.

Ian:

--- Quote from: Sir Patrick on 2014-01-25, 20:32:31 ---Well I meant 14th century :). 1360ish is the date range I'm coming up with on this one. It's item # IX.16 at the Royal Armoury at Leeds. I tried searching their database, but it's incomplete and that item isn't listed yet.

--- End quote ---

By the 1360's the integrated leather belt style would pretty much go out of fashion for the knightly class.  In the 1350's you do see some alternatives to the magical floating plaque belt suspension, like this:

It uses what appear to be metal rings or hooks to attach the ends of the belt to a metal throat locket on the scabbard:


This manuscript image is dated to 1348 in France.  It's difficult to see, but it also appears that the belt is attached to a metal throat locket on the scabbard:


Now we lose some detail here, but what we can see again is a suspension of a belt attaching to the throat of the scabbard.  There's no indication of any knotwork on the throat like early 14th century integral scabbard suspensions:


By 1360 though you'll be very hard pressed to find a true knightly effigy that doesn't feature a plaque belt.  We have some evidence for how this was done.  There are surviving scabbard fittings that feature a staple on the back of the throat locket.  A metal throat locket staple can then have a leather strap passed through it to hang it from the belt.  Here's an archaeological find of what I'm describing:



There are finds with the staple in various orientations, some parallel to the ground, some canted like that image above.  To then suspend it from a belt, you could do something like this sketch of mine:


Another possibility is a buckle attached directly to the back of a metal scabbard throat:


The two and three point knotted suspensions that you're referring too do not really start to come in to vogue until the 15th century.  Unfortunately, the mid-late 14th century is the most difficult period to nail down a definite scabbard suspension.  In battle you'd more than likely ditch your scabbard altogether.  You'll note that the overwhelming majority of manuscript images depict no scabbards at all when people are actively fighting.  Hope this helps!

Sir Patrick:
Thank you very much!  Very thorough and helpful.

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