Main > The Great Hall
New to this World...
Don Jorge:
--- Quote from: James Anderson III on 2013-11-07, 00:41:18 ---Illusion is known for long wait times. And then being late too. If you have around 18 months or so to wait, it might be worth a try. They're quoting a year for orders, I recall seeing orders that were a year past the original delivery date and still unfinished (though a few years back).
Maximillian armor is heavily fluted. Open up a home equity line of credit or something. Roughly $15,000 for a cheap one out of mild steel. If you want heat treated steel, I'd say you're talking $20,000+ range. It's one of the styles I'd love to have, few people make, and I'll never have unless I hit the lotto or end up having kids who hit the lotto... :)
Transitional armor is MUCH more reasonable in price. It is also easier to get it fitting properly, whereas plate has very little forgiveness in fitment. I've spent many hours getting mine tweaked to a decent fitment. As far as transitional, I have a GDFB bascinet, coat of plates (aluminum), and (in stainless) steel spaulders, steel knee and elbow cops, splint arms and splint legs. I think it was around $1,000 and since it's almost all stainless (except the helm and coat of plates), it won't rust. However, I got the coat of plates used for a steal price of $100 or so. I don't have gauntlets for it, but you could probably get a similar suit for about $1,000 roughly. If you want to check out Mad Matt's site (he made the spaulders/splint arms/splint legs, and my sabatons in my avatar pic), here's his site:
http://www.madmattsarmory.com/
Sir Brian should be able to refer you to sources for his armor. I believe it is also Mercenary's Tailor, but I'm not 100% sure.
--- End quote ---
Okay, lets talk transitional period and metals then...for combat what type of metals should I be looking for at each piece? 16 gauge? 14 gauge? Mild Steel (does that just mean cold rolled?), Blue Steel, Satin Polish, Mirror Polish, Stainless Steel (as strong as steel but rust resistant or is it weaker and not combat armor material?)? What type of metal should my chain mail be? What types of coat of plates are there and what should I be looking at? I will definitely be wearing a surcoat over my armor so maybe the coat of plates doesn't have to be that elaborate? What can I skimp on and what should I pay the big bucks for?
Gah so many questions :)
Sir Edward:
For the most part, if you're going to fight in the armor, you're probably looking at 16ga thickness. Most SCA kingdoms requires 16ga armor, and 14ga for the helm, if I recall.
For HEMA use, generally 16ga will work as well. Any thinner, and the armor will take a beating, but thicker will just be very, very heavy.
Historically, armor tended to be 16ga or thinner. The process of shaping the complex curvature of the armor had the benefit of allowing the metal to get quite thin in places where the curvature provided the strength, limiting the weight while maximizing the strength. Reproductions are usually made from sheet metal, so there is less of this happening, and a more consistent thickness, which just means more weight compared to historical armor.
In terms of the actual metals, "mild steel" is just plain steel, and will be the cheapest. Spring steel is a good step up, since it's an alloy intended for use in springs, it has a lot of flex (without taking a set) and will resist taking damage. Stainless is the most expensive because it's hard to work with. It's very rigid (and will also resist damage to a point), and has the benefit of being really hard to rust up.
Another alternative is aluminum. Completely non-historical, and non-functional. It's also expensive because it's hard to work with (for being soft, rather than extra-hard like stainless). The main reason to get aluminum is for renfaire/LARP where you want it to look good, but be lightweight.
What sort of polish/finish you want is largely a matter of taste. But highly polished steel will resist rust better than a dull finish, because the small pits and crevices in the surface act as anchor points for rust to take hold. Because of this, once it starts to show rust, it'll rust more easily again in the future. Also, a higher shine will usually be more expensive because it's more labor intensive.
My 14th century armor is from Mercenary's Tailor, and it's very cost effective since it's mild steel, and a satin finish. It's what we might call "munitions grade armor", in that it's functional and cost effective, without going the extra mile to be extra pretty.
Ian:
As far as thickness is concerned, if you're using hardened spring steel you can easily go with 18 gauge or lighter and be just fine unless you plan on doing HMB or Battle of the Nations style bludgeoning.
Polishing doesn't affect function (unless it's very rough, then it will attract rust with greater frequency), but it definitely affects cost. I prefer a satin finish on my armor, as a mirror finish is all but impossible to maintain, and I find it annoying to look at.
I recommend spending as much as you can afford on plate armor. Ideally it should be heat treated spring steel, and custom fit to you. Once you start to compromise, you will to varying degree begin to degrade function and comfort, until you go with very cheap mild steel armors that are improperly shaped and articulated that don't fit you and don't move properly. The nicer the armor, the more you'll enjoy wearing it. You absolutely get what you pay for in the armor world.
But all of that is irrelevant if you have crappy arming garments. The foundation of the armor, that is the clothes you're wearing under them that provide the anchor points to suspend your armor make or break even the nicest suit of custom fit high gothic plate. Always start with good arming garments. The armor must be sized to you wearing them anyway, so avoid the temptation to start with the steel bits.
**EDIT** For the sake of full disclosure, SCA armor is not historical armor. My above advice concerns historical armor or armor used for HEMA/WMA. SCA armor is designed for a very specific sport and has very different requirements than real historical armor. Therefore, styling and shaping are often compromised to make the armor work for their sport. The rules of the sport also put you at a distinct disadvantage by wearing a plate harness. Also, never EVER purchase SCA armor before trying the sport and consulting with your local marshallate. They will get you in loner gear to see if you even like it, and if you do, they will provide the specific rules for their region, because armor requirements vary locally.
Sir William:
SCA standards say that at a minimum the armor must be 16 gauge in thickness; if you're speaking of mild steel, a lot of the fighters go heavier at 14ga and 12ga for their helms at the least. Mild steel is just that, usually cold-rolled, untempered, unhardened. Blued steel is just steel that's been blued or blackened, it has the same hardness or lack thereof as the steel it was before the blueing process was begun. The different polishes (satin, mirror, etc) only deal with how shiny you want your armor to be. I have noted a marked departure from the super shiny harnesses of the late 90s and early 00s- for myself, I prefer the satin finish. Its a good look w/out being gaudy. Stainless tends to be somewhat softer than mild steel which makes it less palatable for weapons applications but perfectly suitable for armor.
Spring steel can be thinner because it is harder by nature, and as such, it'll cost more. Then there's spring stainless which just means it won't rust as much but it'll be more costly still. Then there's spring steel, tempered - as far as I know, it is the 'Cadillac' of steels - it can be very thin, very light and still very protective. Not to mention, pretty expensive. You can get a full mild suit for about $2000, give or take, depending on how much plate you want. For the same suit in tempered spring steel, multiply by 5 at the least.
Of course, living history reenactors would and should shy away from anything other than mild or tempered high carbon steel; all else (stainless, spring, titanium, mithril, vibranium, adamantium etc) is modern invention.
Coats of plates...you said transitional period so you're looking for something along the lines of the Visby CoP; plenty of places to get those made, I've dealt with three different armorers and the results were more or less satisfactory, but I would only put forth two of them - Winter Tree Crafts, LLC and Mad Matt's Armory; MMa is in Canada though so the shipping charges may be of concern. WTC is in Vermont but he's scaled his workload way back as he's currently building a new house and shop on recently purchased land...he's worked me into his schedule but only as a favor to me as we've had good dealings in the past. Since a CoP is made up of plates riveted/sewn onto a leather facing you don't have to go high hog with stainless or super expensive steel; mine is being made of 18 ga mild steel plates- since they overlap, it'll be plenty protective. A CoP will run you $200-500 depending on armorer, materials, specs, etc.
You should probably avoid skimping- it will only lead to you replacing that part with a more expensive and better part, if you have the willpower, save yourself the trouble and go for what you really want. In this particular path of interest, as with most things, you get what you pay for and if you're needing it for its primary purpose of protection, you'll not want to skimp on it at all.
I was just thinking...you might get away with being skimpy on the undergarments; braies, chausses, under tunic - things not easily seen when in full kit or harness. If you have or know anyone who has skills in sewing, you can save yourself a good deal of money by working with patterns and sewing your own garments with the added bonus that it'll be to your specifications, not something off the rack that may or may not fit.
Sir Brian:
Hail and well met! Welcome to the forum!
(sorry for being late on the greeting, somehow missed this one!)
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