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On the Krumphau
Thorsteinn:
<rant on>
This is why I hate using the German & Italian terms:
When watching all these vids I find I can do many of them BUT I find the over focus on unarmoured vs unarmoured Longsword dueling to be a distasteful effect in HEMA/WMA. It is forming a closed loop in which we abandon perfectly fine language from English to use terms that, by their use, exclude those swordsmen/women who have studied other systems or never learned the German or Italian thus leading to an even worse exclusivity focus and helping to kill growth & Egalitarianism.
<rant off>
Jessica Finley:
I am confused by your rant.
When I learn swordsmanship I must learn a set of terms to refer to what I am doing. By default, I am learning a new set of terms that refer to specific actions. Whether those terms are in English, or German, or Italian, or Spanish, or Russian, for that matter... means little. New action has a name = Name is new.
If you mean that we should all have a common fencing language then what should that be based on? Page? Modern sport-fencing terms? But when they have no word for a Krumphau (because that strike exists in no other systems I know of) then should I make up a term?
And why is that superior to calling it what the people I am attempting to emulate call it???
I am not being defensive here... I honestly am confused.
In Judo, I used Japanese terms "O-Goshi", even if there are English words "Hip throw" or Medieval German terms "die Zwei Hüffe". It would be equally weird to use English or German terms when doing a Japanese Art as it would be to use O-goshi during my Ringen class (though I admit to referring to it sometimes for those who might know Japanese, much as I might refer to "Vom Tag, also known as Posta de Donna or just putting the sword on your shoulder")
But there are minute differences between O-Goshi, Hip Throws and Die Zwei Hüffe much as there are between Vom Tag, Posta de Donna and just putting the sword on your shoulder. So ... I use the specific one that invokes exactly what I want.
Remind me why that is bad?
Jessica Finley:
Also I am confused by your linking language to armored/unarmored duels.
I agree, I wish more practitioners of the Art would study the WHOLE art, that is the armored and unarmored wrestling, armored and unarmored dagger, armored and unarmored spear, Long Spear, armored poleaxe, sword and buckler, messer, long spear and sword on horseback (rossfechten) AS WELL AS armored and unarmored longsword. To complain that there is a lack of understanding of the entire system by the exclusion of armored longsword is simply to scratch the surface.
THAT SAID: Our system is taught through the unarmored Longsword. It is there that he establishes the basics of the art, how to move, what our goals are within a fight, what nomenclature to use when breaking down an opponent's strengths and weaknesses, and how to mitigate those strengths and exploit the weaknesses. Once you have it in unarmored longsword he then applies that to the REST of the weapons.
I could (and do) lament that more people don't study wrestling. :)
Jess
Sir James A:
On terms - I agree with Jessica. Her example of Japanese vs German is a great one. We don't have "wrap shots" in WMA, and "iron chicken stance" means nothing to us. It's a two way street; WMA people who learn SCA have to learn a new set of terms that have no relevance/relation to what they learn in WMA. I mostly hear the german names when I'm around my Order brothers, but Ken Mondschein's book uses Italian terms - which made it confusing to me - but part of learning anything is learning the terminology and differences.
On unarmored vs unarmored - that's what the source material is. There's a world of unarmored techniques that do no good when fighting someone in armor. Blossfechten is unarmored fighting; harnessfechten is armored fighting. Harness fighting is a lot less common for a few good reasons; proper harness is expensive, breaking arms and/or legs is frowned upon, and even in the best of controlled environments, injuries with armored combat are more likely than unarmored (as backwards as it sounds). I live for time in armor, though!
Back at our Order of the Marshal longsword shows at VARF, Sir Nathan and I did 5 or 6 "points" in our final show (the only one we did harnessfechten). We got the last "point" on video - - and watch the last bit where I caught Sir Nathan's crossguard, failed the yanking disarm, and he catches the back of my leg. We had a previous agreement we wouldn't drop each other like rocks, but he tugged enough I acknowledged in a real fight, he'd have got me. That little tug led to this beautiful bruise (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/jba3/medieval/ouch/2012-06-12231719.jpg).
Also worthy of note, is that during our bouts, we didn't use a single master cut, primary guard, or secondary guard. The unarmored combat techniques focus on unarmored combat and ignore armored combat because they're two completely different methods of engagement - there is some overlap, but it's minimal - and mostly takedowns and ringen from what I've seen.
Jessica Finley:
Hey James -
Nice vid! And WMA has been referred to as the "Bruise Admiration Society", so good on that too. :D
It is true, that there appears to be little overlap between Armored and Unarmored fighting, however it's important to remember that the "Master Cuts" are only five of the 17 "Chief Techniques" of the system. The other 12 apply to Harnessfechten. :)
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