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Arrows vs. Mail -- was Re: Chainmail on a peasant's budget

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Sir Ulrich:
After seeing that video now I want 16 gauge maille thats arrow proof though for now I'm gonna have to make due with the maille I got though. 18 gauge is still good and lasts long but I think it would be less arrow proof than 16 gauge. I think earlier maille was thicker and as time passed in the medieval age in the later period it was made thinner as it wasn't the primary defense. Also could of regionally varied, there were 3 types of rivets I know were used, wedge, round, and staple like rivets, god only knows what else could of been used and how much it varied. Thats what I DON'T like about modern armor actually, it's all too uniform and a lot of it lacks the hand made quality of actual medieval armor unless you get it custom made.

Sir William:
You have to realize, back then, that armor was costly and considered precious.  There weren't any 'off the rack' hauberks to be had- each one would've been made to fit a specific warrior, unless of course it was taken from a corpse on the battlefield but even then, it was made to fit that man, or the man who he himself took it from at some point.

Also, there is no such thing as arrow-proof mail, no matter what gauge the wire is...at least, not historically speaking.  I'm sure it could be made now.

I'm also in agreement with regard to modern mail however- most of us would never be able to afford a tailored hand-linked hauberk...in talking with Erik Schmid, who is one of the considered-premier mail artisans, I have learned that such a commission would run in the $5k range.  I don't have the time or wherewithal to discuss inflation rates or how much was paid for a single one way back then but I do know that the cost of a full harness would've run you what you'd normally pay now for a higher end Mercedes (no less than $50k to start).

If that were still the case, none of us would be wearing armor, or at least, not the collection some of us have acquired over the years.  :)

Sir Ulrich:
Generally most combat grade maille is 18 gauge while the round ring stuff is typically 16 gauge. Not sure which is stronger but I prefer the flat stuff just because it looks better. I still say the half riveted half non is stronger than all riveted when it comes to arrows due to the solid rings having no weak point where the rivet is. Thing is thats what I initially wanted till I realized I couldn't find any, except GDFB and that would require LOTS of tailoring, thats what I DON'T like about modern maille; the lack of tailoring. Leads to excess weight as well as bingo wings, which I got to fix on my own hauberk though it isn't nearly as bad as other maille I've seen.

I checked out Erik's site and I must say I am IMPRESSED by his maille http://www.erikdschmid.erikds.com/ I can tell the riveted rings are made of iron and not steel as they have a somewhat blackish tinge while the solid rings are probably punched from a steel plate due to their lighter color. I hope the future we will have maille of this quality (or looks) available for sale in the affordable range. The main thing is iron forge welds better than steel so the rivets typically merge with the ring making it stronger, at least thats my own theory on why indian maille looks nothing like the real deal. Though the later century stuff somewhat resembles indian made maille and I've seen a coif that DOES look like indian made wedge riveted maille.

Sir William:
Unless they come up with a machine that can do the links, and mass produce it, mail will continue to be a manual process and as such, quite expensive.  As with all things desirable, you get what you pay for.

Sir Edward:

Erik Schmidt is one of the few people who really goes the extra mile to make it highly authentic. I think he's one of the only ones who makes museum-grade replica mail.

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