ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Sir Edward on 2011-03-17, 22:30:03
-
After Ivan's posts about which knightly virtues can stand alone, it got me thinking a little. I realized after a short bit that the person who concocted the question may have meant for it to be a trick question, with the answer being "none can stand alone", but since it was phrased to choose from a specific list, we all answered accordingly.
But as was pointed out on the HEMA Alliance forum's copy of the thread, such specific lists or codes of knightly virtues are a modern invention. While historical writings described a variety of traits and virtues of chivalry, there were no explicit codified lists. The word Chivalry itself was usually all that was needed to convey the meaning. So whenever you see a specific list on a website, someone in relatively modern times assembled it. Whether that "modern time" was nineteenth century / Victorian, or from someone currently alive.
For instance, we have a page here on this website, The Code (http://modernchivalry.org/code.html), which is a list I assembled based on the various influences in my life and reading. You will see some differences in it as compared to others, or compared to historical writings.
As an example, I specified Generosity, where historically you would have seen Largesse written of. I did this to make it more inclusive. Largesse of course is generosity towards your peers or your lord. It could take the form of buying a round of drinks for your fellow knights, or bringing a gift to your lord in the form of spoils of war. This is very different than giving to the poor, which would have been called Charity. In modern times, we don't make as much of a distinction, so I chose to make it a more inclusive term.
Another example is that I left out is Chastity. I probably could have included it, but I think in some ways modern culture is a lot less uptight about sexuality than our historical brethren were (though in some ways we're probably also more uptight). In it's most literal sense, it describes a complete lack of sexual activity. But I think even historically, it wasn't used in that sense to describe knights. Knights weren't disallowed from marrying and having children, unless they were in a monastic order such as the Templars. And you can bet very few of them would have been completely chaste. No, I think what they meant by it was that an honorable knight shouldn't go around raping women, womanizing, with a different girl in every town. Knights shouldn't be slutty. So in that context, I think it applies today the way it did back then.
What other codes of knightly virtues have you seen? How do they compare? What else would you add to such a list? How would you construct one? What's your favorite, or most inspirational?
-
I think I'll stick by my initial statement...for me, it is all about honor. I honor my mother and father, my wife and my daughters, myself, my compatriots- my conduct is what signifies who and what I am. If it is not readily evident that I am knightly, it can only be because of one of two reasons- either my behavior is not knightly, or those witnessing it do not understand what it is they are seeing, but even in that instance, they'll sort of get it. These days, it is seen less and less.
-
I posted a thread in the Order section that has a story about William Marshal, and it seems similar to this, in that it compares our idea of Modern Chivalry vs Historical Chivalry, and what they viewed as proper and acceptable actions that we, perhaps, would not.
It's making me revisit some of the ideas I've had for many, many years.
-
Other versions of the Knightly Code reveals the variety of virtues that are products of honor, courage, faith, generosity, prowess and franchise. They also reveal other aspects of Chivalry that modern people of today overlook, take for granted or even ignore.
For me, the Knightly Code according to the Order of Selohaar is probably my favorite as it shows that Knighthood or Chivalry is no laughing joke. It is something that is meant to be taken seriously and wholeheartedly.
The inspirational knightly code is the "Old Code" from the novel and film "Dragonheart." Even though that it is only about six lines total, but the words convey meaning as to what was a knight sworn to, what has he sworn allegiance to.
The two codes go hand in hand. As they are similar in the message of being sworn to live by honor. These codes do not need any additions as they relate to the other virtues of chivalry that are not mentioned.
-
For me, the Knightly Code according to the Order of Selohaar is probably my favorite as it shows that Knighthood or Chivalry is no laughing joke. It is something that is meant to be taken seriously and wholeheartedly.
The inspirational knightly code is the "Old Code" from the novel and film "Dragonheart." Even though that it is only about six lines total, but the words convey meaning as to what was a knight sworn to, what has he sworn allegiance to.
For those who want to see them, here they are:
Here's the Selohaar code: http://selohaar.org/selbook/chivcode.htm (http://selohaar.org/selbook/chivcode.htm)
And the "old code":
...inside the circle of the table,
under the holy sword,
a knight must swear he will obey
to the eternal code,
eternal as the table,
a ring bound to honour.
A knight is sworn to valor,
his heart knows only virtue,
his blade defends the helpless,
his might upholds the weak,
his word speaks only truth,
his wrath undoes the wicked.
The right can never die,
if a man still remembers him.
Words are not forgotten,
if a voice pronounce them clearly,
The Code always shines,
if a heart preserves it brightly...
The Old Code....
Sometimes a succinct code is all that is needed, and is quite elegant in its own right.
-
Thank you sir Edward for the explanation which I left out due to time constraints.
And I do agree with you that that succinctness is a draw in which people can aspire or be inspired to follow.
-
Dragonheart's Olde Code is by far one of my favorites! In the movie, it's just the middle stanza.
-
An abbreviated version of what the West Kingdom Knighting ceremony is.
From:http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Ceremony/West/Chivalry.pdf (http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Ceremony/West/Chivalry.pdf)
King: Will you now give Us your word that you will henceforth
comport yourself as befits a Peer of Our Realm, as you
most surely have until now, and that you will attempt in
all your endeavors to be a noble example to Our people?
Candidate: I will.
King & Queen:
Will you promise further to treat all with Courtesy, and to
uphold the Laws and traditions of Our Kingdom?
Candidate: I will.
King: On what sword do you wish to swear fealty?
(The Candidate shall reply, and this sword shall be presented, hilt foremost, to
the King. The King shall take it and lay it across his upraised palms.)
King: Place your hands upon Our own.
Herald: To your Liege and before your peers, repeat after me:
Here do I swear
by mouth and hand
fealty and service
to the Crown and Kingdom of the West
to speak and to be silent
to come and to go
to strike and to spare
to do and to let be
in such matters as concern the Kingdom
on my honor
and the lawful commands of the Crown
in need or in plenty
in peace or in war
in living or in dying
from this hour henceforth
until the King depart from His Throne
or death take me
or the world end
so say I,____ .
King: And this do We hear,
nor fail to remember,
and We for Our part do swear fealty to you,
____,
to protect and defend you
and all your household,
with all Our power,
until We depart from Our Throne,
or death take Us,
or the world end.
So say We,____ , King of the West.
Queen: So also say We,____ , Queen of the West.
King: By what sword do you wish to be Knighted?
King: By what name do you wish to be Knighted?
King: By what sword do you wish to be Knighted?
King: Bow your head.
(The new Knight shall bow his head.)
King: Know, now that you are made a Knight,
that you must aid the defenseless,
seek justice for those of every station,
and maintain the honor of Knighthood.
Let this blow remind you that Knighthood
shall bring you pain as well as honor.
(The King shall deliver a light, symbolic slap to the cheek
of the new Knight.)
King: Rise, Sir____.
West Kingdom Order of chivalry. (http://heralds.westkingdom.org/Awards/Chivalry.htm)
-Ivan
Who likes the Old Code too.
-
How about this?,
WE ALL DO! ;D