ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Edward on 2008-04-01, 20:05:49
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It's interesting, I originally bought my plate armor for combat use, and didn't put too much of an eye towards any particular style or century. Then it never happened-- our reenactment society collapsed, and the armor became one of my renfaire kits.
What sort of style/century do you think this most closely resembles? I know there are a lot of inaccuracies in the design (yes, yes, I know the sunglasses are the biggest error :)). Some pics:
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2006/EdTotonArmor2006.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2006/a853.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2002/848.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2007/faire/a1788.jpg)
Gradually I may replace some components as I find things that fit better or are more period in design. I also want to add greaves and voyders. Some nice gaunts would be good, since I'm not happy with the ones I have so far. I'm not sure what helm I'll use in the long run, though I recently got one of the GDFB sallets. The gorget that came with this harness was total crap, but using a bevor instead is kinda nice.
As far as the fit, I think I'm rather fortunate since the armourer asked for very little in the way of measurements beyond height and weight.
The legs are slightly roomy and I have trouble keeping them from riding down on my knee, since the strapping was done with a single large belt-loop centered in the front of each cuisse. I've buckled them in as short as I can and it's still slightly low. I like the idea of pointing it to a doublet, so when my Revival Clothing arming cotte gets here I may drill some holes and try to point the legs that way. The other issue with the legs is that the demi-greave digs into the shin-bone something fierce... I have to wear foam pads inside the boots that extend up under the demi-greave to make this bearable.
The cuirass is mostly a good fit but with one hugely annoying detail-- I have a little extra room, front to back, down near the bottom, but it's really snug on the hips. To the point that the rivets there will leave me blistered by the end of the day if I'm not careful. Right through the gambeson. I've been gluing foam pieces over those rivets to prevent this. This appears to be less of a problem when my body weight is higher (like now), but if I lose 10 pounds I'll probably be in more pain again.
I like the pauldrons, but they don't wrap as tightly as I think they should. If you look at the last photo where I'm turned slightly, you can see they stick out off my back a bit.
The arms haven't given me any trouble so far. While the vambraces are a little big, the arms stay in place reasonably well even without pointing them to the under-garment.
The mail fauld is still a work in progress. I'm using enormous 1/2" ID butt-rings of 14g galvanized steel. Not very period, but the large ring size makes the work go quickly when I actually work up the motivation. :)
Anyway, suggestions and comments are always welcome. Except about the sunglasses. haha :)
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Except about the sunglasses. haha :)
But you know that's my favorite part!
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As it is, though, it's a nice piece for Ren Fairre use. Having of course seen the armor in person, the one thing that has always stuck out to me is the cuirass. The shaping is kind of weird... the fact that it goes so low without a fauld is also sort of strange. And the fluting on it lacks a certain subtlety of period originals. I think the pauldrons and arms look pretty decent, though.
If you plan on replacing anything, the cuirass would be my suggestion. The legs do look a little wide, but they don't stick out as much... plus I know you were considering getting the Revival.us legs anyway. Maybe you should consider getting one of the GDFB breastplates? Or even this, that I posted a few moments ago:
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=76709
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i've always wanted Ed to come up here so we could make greaves and faulds for that kit.
as it is it looks to have 14thc legs and arms, a 15c body w/ pauldrons. i have a similar deal only i have 16thc pauldrons with my suit. its a good suit when it was made for sca and has lasted Ed a good number of years at the faire. :)
Ed what you really need to do is order that full suit of 14thc stuff from GDFB. come on, you know you want too hehehehehe
if Ed were to replace anything I'd say go for the body and legs first. get the Revival legs and look for a breast and back. the GDFB breast is nice but it doesn't have a back, and since he's going for full plate eheehe it would be a bit breezy
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Yeah, I'm still very tempted by the revival.us legs. It's funny, they strike me as almost too light, just because I'm used to these beastly legs in my current kit. They're like 14g steel or something. But they're very cost effective and look good, and seemed to fit me pretty well. And if I get those and use the greaves with them, I guess I need to finally get used to using more period footwear... heh. :)
The GDFB legs also seemed like a good fit, though I was very displeased with their greaves.
That breastplate on the armourarchive looks fantastic. I could also consider the GDFB one... but as Wolf said, I really want a back on it too.
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the GDFB breast is nice but it doesn't have a back, and since he's going for full plate eheehe it would be a bit breezy
True, though it wouldn't be out of the question. The Paulus Kal manuscript has quite a number of guys fully armoured without backs. Some of them have mail underneath, others either don't, or else the mail is supposed to be under their garments where it can't be seen. But I can certainly understand if Ed wants to get the back.
As another thought, its possible to get the front and have someone add a back to it later.
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some have mail with no backs true, and some look to be breastplates over thinner jacks.
what about the windlass (MRL) breast and back. has anyone seen that?
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The Windlass cuirass is surprisingly decent for the price. Christian has one. In fact, its the cuirass that Ben is wearing in Christian's first book, if you have that. Though I believe Christian said he had to work on the lames to make them articulate a little better.
The Windlass arms are decent, except that the elbows are really big. They need "squishing". I own the pauldrons, and they don't articulate very well as-is, but Peter Fuller did some work on them to make then work incredibly well, so at least they can be salvaged by a good armourer. The gauntlets are the most beautiful and expensive hand puppets you'll ever see: They barely articulate at all. Completely useless as armour, unfortunately. Peter Fuller worked on mine as well, and he made them slightly better, but there was only so much he could do without just making a brand new pair. I haven't seen the legs.
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So, I finally got to try out the new helm + bevor with my armor... (pics wholly stolen from Sword Chick) :)
The legs worked a little better last night too. Some photos show them sitting a little funny, but for the most part they moved with me pretty well. I'm cautiously optimistic about pointed them to the arming cotte when it arrives.
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So, I finally got to try out the new helm + bevor with my armor... (pics wholly stolen from Sword Chick) :)
Well, Sir Wolf, Christian and Das Bill know where they can see more. ;)
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I guess it's a private gallery right? Otherwise we could post a link. :)
These copies I yanked, I brightened them up a little before posting them here, since the lighting apparently wasn't real good for photos that night.
Great photo gallery by the way! I love the "I'm too sexy" comment. Haha!
(oh also, it made me realize that the attachment settings in the forum were kinda restrictive. I'm allowing 256k per post now, and have increased the total disk allocation for attachments from 10 megs to 200 megs).
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So, I finally got to try out the new helm + bevor with my armor... (pics wholly stolen from Sword Chick) :)
Well, Sir Wolf, Christian and Das Bill know where they can see more. ;)
we do? i dont follow :(
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Yes, the super secret gallery... aka "That website that everyone who is not a preteenage girl is afraid of admiting they have a profile on, even though we all do by now".
Yes, I was surprised at how well your bevor worked with the harness. For those who'd seen it before, that's the GDFB one that I had that wouldn't work with my harness because of the bizarre shape of the bevor. It isn't totally perfect with Ed's harness, as there is still a slight gap under it, but nowhere near as bad as it was with my cuirass. It had gotten in the way with my pauldrons, but it seemed to work fine with Ed's.
Thank you, Ed, for posting pictures that show us from above the knee... We were at VAF, and were wearing our typical athletic pants and sneakers before suiting up. Very authentic, circa 2000 to 2010.
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Yeah, the gap under the bevor isn't too bad. Also, it allows me some range of motion with my head, and I can stand naturally. My previous sallet (made for SCA combat), forced me to hold my head slightly forward (forward and chin out), and I couldn't turn my head at all. However, it allowed great vision.
The relatively thin eye slit on this sallet is much more period appropriate, but I was surprised by how little I could see. If I looked at my opponent's face, I could not see their arms below the shoulder, or the weapon at all if it was held low. If I looked down at the weapon, I lost sight of their head and shoulders. And in both cases I couldn't see what the feet were doing. These are all things I take for granted during sparring and practice drills.
I'll need to adjust the helmet's suspension a little in any case, since it was resting on my glasses the whole time, and sat perhaps a little low anyway. If I were to try fighting without glasses, I'd be even more blind. :)
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The relatively thin eye slit on this sallet is much more period appropriate, but I was surprised by how little I could see. If I looked at my opponent's face, I could not see their arms below the shoulder, or the weapon at all if it was held low. If I looked down at the weapon, I lost sight of their head and shoulders. And in both cases I couldn't see what the feet were doing. These are all things I take for granted during sparring and practice drills.
I think this is exactly why you see so many pictures with the visor up during combat.
(http://img.kb.dk/ha/manus/th290/kamp0177.jpg)
Or why many period painting show men at arms wearing a sallet without a bevor, which allows excellent protection from above, but still allows good visibility from below.
The visor could always be lowered if necessary (a hailstorm of arrows coming in, for instance), but can be lifted for combat where higher visibility and air ventilation is necessary.
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I guess it's a private gallery right? Otherwise we could post a link. :)
Public link:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=110128&l=5b169&id=561845509
Fixed link.
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And that has pics of David's brand new messer that had just arrived that day, too. Man, that thing is sweet. I offered to hang on to it for him, that way he didn't have to worry about it taking up space at his place, but he declined. That guy just doesn't know what's best for him.
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I think this is exactly why you see so many pictures with the visor up during combat.
(http://img.kb.dk/ha/manus/th290/kamp0177.jpg)
Or why many period painting show men at arms wearing a sallet without a bevor, which allows excellent protection from above, but still allows good visibility from below.
The visor could always be lowered if necessary (a hailstorm of arrows coming in, for instance), but can be lifted for combat where higher visibility and air ventilation is necessary.
That makes a lot of sense. It seems to me to be foolish to sacrifice that much visibility when fighting at that range. Now I need to add those spring pins we talked about, so I can flip it up and have it stay there.
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That makes a lot of sense. It seems to me to be foolish to sacrifice that much visibility when fighting at that range.
Of course, on the flip side, there are a lot of images of fighting with the helm closed, so we know some people would have chosen to do so as well. Those types of images seem to be more rare than those of fighting with the visor up, though.
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I'll need to adjust the helmet's suspension a little in any case, since it was resting on my glasses the whole time, and sat perhaps a little low anyway. If I were to try fighting without glasses, I'd be even more blind. :)
I tightened it up, and it seemed to resolve the glasses issue. I hadn't played with the suspension at first, and the knot was loose, so it was sliding down onto my glasses. I cinched it in and re-knotted the tie, and I think it'll work better now. Probably need to add some holes in the chin strap though.
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when i get my new one ehhehe i'm gonna put a different liner in it. the leather stretched some due to the type. that should hlp with about 95% of it.
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Ed voguing:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2788561&l=1ea31&id=561845509
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Well, on Saturday, I got to test-drive my armor at faire for the first time since Sir Wolf and I made some adjustments, and after buying the Revival Clothing arming doublet, joined hose, and the Historic Enterprises fauld.
I didn't get a chance to try to attach the voiders.
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2008/weapons/a2416.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2008/weapons/a2416b.jpg) (clicky)
Here's how it turned out...
The fauld worked well, but the way I attached it was a last-minute hack that morning. I fashioned four hooks to hang it from a waist belt like my old one. What I should have done is make this complete loops, and have more of them. I had a "malfunction" where two hooks (the ones in the rear) came off, letting the top edge slip down over my butt, while I was headed to the car in the parking lot to get something. It's quite difficult to reach up under your own back-plate, but somehow I managed to put it back together myself. Ugh. Must make sure that doesn't happen again.
The pauldrons gave me some minor trouble, but mostly because I'm just learning how to work with them with the points on the arming doublet. I think I see what I need to do differently to make them comfortable. You'll see in the picture they're not sitting the same as each other. One kept shifting too low, and getting caught on the cuirass. This is fixable by tying them differently.
The new tassets and extra lame worked great!
The new pointing for the legs worked really nicely. One of them untied itself over the course of the day, but the other three held, and it remained comfortable, and moved with me better than the old straps did.
I never got around to adding points for the arms, which I clearly need to do. The arms never used to move around on my or slide down, just due to the thickness of my old (crappy) gambeson. The arming doublet is thinner and smoother, so now it's become necessary. Even so, the right arm stayed comfortable and didn't really move on me. I had a slight issue with the left.
And then there's the cuirass itself... what a pain, literally. Before we adjusted the angle of the plackart/breastplate, it used to sit unnaturally on the corners of the pelvis (thus causing blisters there, since it has rivets right at that spot). Now, it contours to my shape much better. Why is this bad? Well, it's designed to be too long in the torso. With it sitting lower, the spots that used to squeeze the corners of the pelvis now squeeze the muscle directly beneath. I could hardly walk by the end of the day. Total trade-off. I could try tightening up the shoulder straps, but I don't think that'll gain me much due to the shape and curvature of the metal up there. The thing is just too long. The only fix may be an eventual replacement of the whole thing.
... and of course I forgot my hat. :)
So... still a work in progress. :)
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me sad :( we can try to put it back to where it was before. its just 3 rivets. but i would have to say you may need to find a more shapely breast and back. one that is better made for you.
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me sad :( we can try to put it back to where it was before. its just 3 rivets. but i would have to say you may need to find a more shapely breast and back. one that is better made for you.
Man, you did some fine work, but ArmourWorks simply had some design flaws. :-/
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Ed, how up on your metal working skills are you? It sounds like you need to remove material lenght from the bottom of the breast and back plates as they are sitting to low. They should be more around the bottom of you rib cage or a bit lower, the pelvis shouldn't be involved at all. Can you send me pics of just the B&b plates on you? We may be able to rework this for you.
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No metal skills at all, unfortunately. Sir Wolf was kind enough to help me out with it one afternoon, and we adjusted the angle between the plackart and breastplate to contour it better (it definitely looks better). I think this made it slightly longer too, when it was already too long (the pic I posted above is clickable, and if you look, you'll see a rivet above the top center point of the plackart, which is where it used to be riveted before we re-angled it). The rivet that holds the top lame on the side is what sticks into my hip on the pelvis.
It's possible that the plackart could be raised up, with it and the breast overlapping more and reshaped slightly so it extends to the proper length with the right curve. The back would definitely require material removal.
If this can be reworked, that would be wonderful! I'll see if I can get some pics of it by itself. We may even have one already in another thread from our armouring day over at Wolf's place.
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Here's the thread with the pics we took when we reworked it a bit. They're not the B&B by themselves, but pretty close a little ways down in the thread:
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,177.0.html (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,177.0.html)
On Saturday, it felt like it was sitting lower than it looks in this shot:
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2008/weapons/a2246.jpg)(clicky) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2008/weapons/a2246b.jpg)
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Yeah your way to long. The question I guess is how comfortable are you with losing some of the fluting ( length ) on the front? In order to raise the waist line i'd have to clip from the bottom of the breast plate which will remove some of the length of the flutes, and probably re create flange to take you fauld plate. Raising the plackard higher would take care of some of the issue but i'm not sure if it sill take care of all. What do you think?
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hi Allen. from a professional point of view i did what i could with what i had. the breastplate is not dished at all for the stomach. it is simply rolled from 1 side to the other. the angle is not there in the breast/back to allow the belly to be out while the chest comes in close. same to be said to allow room at the hips. of course Sir Ed has gained a lil bit since he bought the armour ;) we could cut some of the bnb bottom and raise the faulds up further or just put it in its old holes, all depends on what ed wants to do. i'm game for anything heheheh ARMOUR ARMOUR!!
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I'd like to keep as much of the fluting as possible, but I'm not opposed to sacrificing some to make it fit better. I'd love to add the appropriate amount of fauld length as well. Wolf and I added one front lame and the tassets after that picture, but there's a lot of room to add more especially if we raise the bottom edge.
Ironically, even though I've gained weight since I bought it, I still have some breathing room. Initially it was extremely spacious front-to-back, and pretty snug side-to-side. It squeezes at the pelvis, but nowhere else. So we have some room to play with it.
Allen, if you were to re-work it a bit, what sort of price-range and time estimate are we looking at? (just a ballpark, since there's no rush and I realize you haven't looked at it up close).
If this is salvageable, I'm up for it. :)
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Ed i'd really have to get my hands on it to give you an idea of how long and how much ( its the little details that come to light once its in you hands that begin to to throw wrenches in things). If you don't like the quote or the time fram, we send it back to you.
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OK, that sounds fine. Once you do get it up close, you'll have to let me know what you think is the best course of action to get it to fit better. I suspect in addition to what we discussed, the shoulder-strap regions could probably also use some slight re-shaping. I'm a pretty average-sized person (recent weight gain aside), so it's not like I have a strange body shape to work with. :)
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I'll hit you up for some measurements. What we usually do is with a certain set of measurments ( depending on the piece of armour in question) we can match some one in the shoope with the body part in question and work off them.
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That sounds great. Shall I email you off-board and go from there?
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Bill shoot me an email.
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Bill shoot me an email.
Did you mean Ed? :)
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I assume that's what he meant. :)
I'll shoot you an email, Allan.
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greaves :)
http://spiers-saddlery.stores.yahoo.net/greaves.html
http://www.madmattsarmory.com/inv_legs.php
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You are trying to spend my money, I see that. :)
Heh, well now I have some new dilemmas to work out. The new GDFB legs are very tall in the cuisses, so I have to reposition the points on my arming doublet. Until then, I'll probably continue to use the old legs. The demi-greaves of both are shaped very differently, and whatever I do for greaves will have to fit underneath one or both. Then, I also need to decide if I want them to fit over my boots, or fit closer to the leg and use more period footwear, and I have to work that out first I suppose. I really wish I could try various greaves on before purchasing a set.
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well see what armour gnome can do for you at the MDRF hehehe. maybe he can bring some "Styles" ;)
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I'll hit you up for some measurements. What we usually do is with a certain set of measurments ( depending on the piece of armour in question) we can match some one in the shoope with the body part in question and work off them.
Now that I've finally handed it off to you, let me know if you still need any measurements, etc. :)
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Actually being able to see you in person pretty much took care of what I needed to know so we're all set. It will work fine for you when I get done with it. I may " crisp up " the flutes a bit after brining the waist line up to spiff it up a little bit.
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Awesome, thanks! Can't wait to try it out. :)
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Ed, this is going pretty much as we discussed. I've brought the plackard and breast plate back to thier original attachment location but the only hard point is at the center on a slot rivet, the sides are on leather compression articulation to allow the sides so compression motion. Removing about an inch on the bottom of the plackard, flaring the new flange farther out that the original ( this will allow the first fauld lame to collaps far more than it now does which is part of the length issue ), it should collapse in the same manner as the second lame you and Chuck added on does. I will be crisping up the flutes and may with your permission add a central ridge to each tasset for strength and to add a bit more flare. I'll need to remove a like amount of material from the bottom of the back plate to keep them even. Spread the curvature a bit so its not so snug and this should work alot better for you. I'll be blind riveting the old attachment holes on both the plackard and top part of the breast plate to maintain esthetic and i'm thinking dress up some of the " points " on the plackard with a little file work and edge beveling.
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coolness. can't wait to see it.
do you see what I mean about it's missing the roundness or dishing in places? I thought by adding the length a tad we could help but I was wrong. Glad you could make it better. Ed and I live kida far apart so it was hard to get and fix after he noticed the problem.
also, sweet to the fluting on the tassets. I just recently got a fluting tool from the archive. Can you do something for me? Dip the fauld and tassets in vinegar or something? I believe they are galv steel and I didn't have any non galv at the time. I think this would make it look better as well
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Excellent news! Thank you so much for working on my armor. Yes, by all means go ahead and rework the tassets too. Would it be possible to add an additional fauld lame in the back to match the one we added in the front? Or would that not work too well?
Oh yes, the surface finish looks quite different on the parts we added, as Chuck mentioned. If we can improve that, I'd love to do that too.
This is great! :)
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I can polish them up but unless I miss my mark, they're galvininzed so they will retain a slightly different color to them even when polished.
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OK, that's fine :)
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Oh yes, the surface finish looks quite different on the parts we added, as Chuck mentioned. If we can improve that, I'd love to do that too.
Perhaps the different coloring would add to the "broken in" and "well used" charm to your harness?
...You know, sort of give it that comfortable pair of slippers feel to it! ;)
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Ed, finished up the breast plate last night, I think you'll like it. The fauld lames now both fully collapse as opposed to only the one that you and Chuck put on, which was part of the problem. With that first lame not collapsing at all it was in effect and extra 2.5" of brest plate length and thus prevented a full waist bend. Moved the waist line up an inch as we discussed, dressed up the placard around the rivet points with some file work, beveled the edges of the placard and lames where appropriate for a more historic look and there is now tons of movement between the placard and top half of the breast plate ( used you and Chucks slot modification in the center and leathers on either side ).
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Awesome! Thank you so much for working on this! It sounds like a huge improvement, and exactly what I needed. Have you looked into the helmet spring-pins yet?
When you're ready to send it all back, hit me up with an email and I'll get you some money right quick.
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The tassets and helm are back. The spring pins are awesome. :)
I'm now working on getting my voiders attached, now that I have some enthusiasm again! Check this out:
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0823.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0823b.jpg)
It's taken all afternoon to get this one installed. Not sure if I'll do the second one tonight or not.
These voiders hang pretty long, making it all the way down to the leg points. I'm tempted to cut a few inches off.
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will you be mad at me if I told you you have them on wrong? :-\ The long piece is to cover the inner arm down to the cuff incase you have gutter vambracers. sorry dude. I know that was a lot of work.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-tp/230145588/Chainmail_Armour.html
http://historicenterprises.biz/voiders-riveted-maille-pair-p-689.html?cPath=101_141
since you have full vambracers I would still cut them down a little after you switch them around(sorta like the histori enterprises picture). that way they lay under the vambraces and not flop over them like I have seen on some. I apploud you!! I have had my voiders of almost a year and I have yet to put them on
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Lol, I thought about that, but they'd hardly cover the armpit area if I did it the other way around, and it would make a mail tube with a larger diameter than my arm. It just didn't seem right.
Holding the other one up against my arm the way you're suggesting, it wraps nearly twice around my forearm, but the length is right.
I'll look it over some more before deciding how to proceed.
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Yeah, looking at the pic from HE (where I bought them, BTW), mine would come all the way to the wrist and cover less of the armpit or side of the body. Odd.
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As it turns out, they say they make them big so you can trim them as necessary. Hah! I should actually research these things before investing hours of work.
Oh well, live and learn.
Amazing though how much faster these things come apart. I had the voider back off in about 2 minutes. I can re-use the top edge eyelets, but the vertical edges have to be brought in, so I'm back to installing eyelets. It looks like when I hold the mail up to my arm, it reaches my wrist, but when clamped down it probably won't. It's not as long as the sleeve on the doublet. I'll have to deal with the excess diameter though, and taper it. I'm tempted to just lace it shut over the forearm instead of attaching it straight to the doublet's sleeve at that end.
But we'll see what it looks like when I get the shoulder attached. :)
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OK, I've been reworking it a bit. Unfortunately I'm stuck with an ugly line of eyelets that aren't in use anymore. Thankfully this will be covered with armor.
I have it pointed on to the bicep, and beyond that it's just safety pins at the moment. I'll have to resume later.
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0824.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0824b.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0829.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0829b.jpg)
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:( man i'm sorry hehehe. but it does look good though!!! huzzah to you for getting it done!!
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Don't apologize dude, you saved me from having to fix TWO of them. :)
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OK, got the safety pins out and have it laced. Looking good! Except for those stupid eyelets I won't be using anymore. :)
Second shot is with my arm turned so you can see the lacing come together. Normally this is on the outside edge of my forearm.
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0838.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0838b.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0839.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0839b.jpg)
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And I have two voiders! Now that I'm getting to wear it with both, I'm noticing I made it a little tight around the chest area. I can play with how tightly I laced it, and can put longer laces in if necessary.
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0846.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/weapons/b0846b.jpg)
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Looks great! :)
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i am so jeleous. did your mail have that black junk on it? mine does ug its aweful. maybe thi swinter I'll work on putting mine on.. curse you! hehhe
now were are the pictures of the plate that got fixed?
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Pictures soon, I hope. :) Visually it doesn't look that different. I'll have to put it all on and take a shot at some point. It's hard to armor up without my squire here (Kat and I joke that she's my squire, and I'm her handmaiden, since we're always helping with each others' garb in the faire parking lot).
No black gunk, they were just mildly oiled.
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Nice Voiders Sir Ed.
Are they rivited?
Where from and how much ( if you don`t mind me asking) ;)
G
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Yes, they're riveted steel, and I got them from Historic Enterprises:
http://historicenterprises.biz/voiders-riveted-maille-pair-p-689.html?cPath=101_141 (http://historicenterprises.biz/voiders-riveted-maille-pair-p-689.html?cPath=101_141)
Current price is on the website. :)
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Cheers Sir Ed.
G
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This past weekend at MDRF was my first time out with the armor since Allan reworked it (thanks Allan! You did a great job!), and with the new voiders and new legs.
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/faire/b1074.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/faire/b1074b.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/faire/b1077.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/faire/b1077b.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/faire/b1080.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/faire/b1080b.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/faire/b1081.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2009/faire/b1081b.jpg)
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wow very cool
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Wow, I haven't posted on this one for quite a while, since nothing's really changed much.
Anyway, I took out all the brown rust discoloration from my gaunts this weekend. And no, I didn't do it in photoshop. :) If you had seen them right before this, they had that nasty yellowed patina that steel gets all over when it's neglected.
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2012/weapons/b3181.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2012/weapons/b3181b.jpg)
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Looks great! How'd you do it?
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Steel wool with CLR to get most of it off, then came back over it with a scotchbrite with WD40, then cleaned it off and gave it a good spray with the gun oil.
The CLR and steel wool makes quick work of it.
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Now for some action & fightin' shots yeah?! :D
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While not exactly action shots, I have some photos from one of our armor nights at VAF a few years ago:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.442388751340.240588.534921340&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.442388751340.240588.534921340&type=3)
A shot at the renfiare with these gauntlets:
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2010/faire/b1667.jpg)
And of course the patriotic mordschlag: :)
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/weapons/me_mordschlag_640p.jpg)
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Looking good, Sir Edward. Loved how you put the voiders together.
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From what I can tell of Sir Edward's voiders, the best way to create voiders (or to use them) is to lace the mail to the arming cotte/gambeson/doublet so that if fits with your shoulder pits (also depending on what the size of the gambeson or arming coat, don't trust eyelets immediately unless it is custom made)
This is helpful for me because when I order my mail for my voiders, I know how to do the job right.
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One more thing Sir Edward, did you use these to help make the voiders?
The Historic Enterprises link states that the product you chose was not available.
http://historicenterprises.com/loose-rings-rivets-steel-1-lb-wedgeriveted-mail-9mm-diam-p-684.html?cPath=101_141 (http://historicenterprises.com/loose-rings-rivets-steel-1-lb-wedgeriveted-mail-9mm-diam-p-684.html?cPath=101_141)
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Nope, I put them on nearly unaltered. I say "nearly", because what I did was take a little excess off near the wrists, where it would have overlapped and wrapped around more than once. Realistically I should have removed more material and shaped them more. I'm also regretting not getting them in stainless (which wasn't an option at the time, but Icefalcon has them now), because they're rusting around the forearm and wrist area.
While they're laced on, it's difficult to clean both them AND the arming cotte. And if I take the time to unlace and re-lace, it'll take almost as long as the first time around, and that was a slow and tedious process. Very historical though, if you ignore the fact that I used cheap metal eyelets.
There's a part of me that wants to get some stainless voiders, attach some heavy-duty velcro, and use that to quickly take them on and off. It's cheating, I know. :)
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Ah I see now, this is most helpful. Thank you Sir Edward!
There's a part of me that wants to get some stainless voiders, attach some heavy-duty velcro, and use that to quickly take them on and off. It's cheating, I know.
I don't consider it cheating, I consider it less time consuming especially when you have a busy schedule. ;)
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Nope, I put them on nearly unaltered. I say "nearly", because what I did was take a little excess off near the wrists, where it would have overlapped and wrapped around more than once. Realistically I should have removed more material and shaped them more. I'm also regretting not getting them in stainless (which wasn't an option at the time, but Icefalcon has them now), because they're rusting around the forearm and wrist area.
While they're laced on, it's difficult to clean both them AND the arming cotte. And if I take the time to unlace and re-lace, it'll take almost as long as the first time around, and that was a slow and tedious process. Very historical though, if you ignore the fact that I used cheap metal eyelets.
There's a part of me that wants to get some stainless voiders, attach some heavy-duty velcro, and use that to quickly take them on and off. It's cheating, I know. :)
Edging the voiders with leather and pointing the leather to the eyelets might be a faster way; still not lightning fast by any means, but if you left multiple shorter points in the eyelets, and punched holes in the leather .... I'll let you know how it goes.
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Well, on Saturday, I got to test-drive my armor at faire for the first time since Sir Wolf and I made some adjustments, and after buying the Revival Clothing arming doublet, joined hose, and the Historic Enterprises fauld.
I didn't get a chance to try to attach the voiders.
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2008/weapons/a2416.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2008/weapons/a2416b.jpg) (clicky)
Here's how it turned out...
The fauld worked well, but the way I attached it was a last-minute hack that morning. I fashioned four hooks to hang it from a waist belt like my old one. What I should have done is make this complete loops, and have more of them. I had a "malfunction" where two hooks (the ones in the rear) came off, letting the top edge slip down over my butt, while I was headed to the car in the parking lot to get something. It's quite difficult to reach up under your own back-plate, but somehow I managed to put it back together myself. Ugh. Must make sure that doesn't happen again.
The pauldrons gave me some minor trouble, but mostly because I'm just learning how to work with them with the points on the arming doublet. I think I see what I need to do differently to make them comfortable. You'll see in the picture they're not sitting the same as each other. One kept shifting too low, and getting caught on the cuirass. This is fixable by tying them differently.
The new tassets and extra lame worked great!
The new pointing for the legs worked really nicely. One of them untied itself over the course of the day, but the other three held, and it remained comfortable, and moved with me better than the old straps did.
I never got around to adding points for the arms, which I clearly need to do. The arms never used to move around on my or slide down, just due to the thickness of my old (crappy) gambeson. The arming doublet is thinner and smoother, so now it's become necessary. Even so, the right arm stayed comfortable and didn't really move on me. I had a slight issue with the left.
And then there's the cuirass itself... what a pain, literally. Before we adjusted the angle of the plackart/breastplate, it used to sit unnaturally on the corners of the pelvis (thus causing blisters there, since it has rivets right at that spot). Now, it contours to my shape much better. Why is this bad? Well, it's designed to be too long in the torso. With it sitting lower, the spots that used to squeeze the corners of the pelvis now squeeze the muscle directly beneath. I could hardly walk by the end of the day. Total trade-off. I could try tightening up the shoulder straps, but I don't think that'll gain me much due to the shape and curvature of the metal up there. The thing is just too long. The only fix may be an eventual replacement of the whole thing.
... and of course I forgot my hat. :)
So... still a work in progress. :)
Little late but roaming the forum.....
I like this look of your harness, Sir Edward. I tried not to but I gave in and bolted my tassets to my harness breast plate but I covered it up nicely. ;) LOL Did you ever try anything from Armstreet for your kits?? I bought one of their gorgets for my stainless harness & it fit perfectly even without sizing. I know you use a bevor instead.
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Nope, I don't have anything from Armstreet.
Yeah, with this kit I use a Sallet + Bevor. I think that photo is before I had Allan take a look at it and make further adjustments. It's still not fantastic, but every time we work with it, it gets a little better. I also now have the voiders on it, and I use the GDFB legs with it as well now.
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the lady Kat sent me a new picture of this years kit.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/563078_10151319033413042_1698043686_n.jpg)
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lol
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Arrr! There isn’t enough bleach to cleanse my eyes! :o
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Hey, if I had that armor, I could totally rock that... I'm sure. Maybe. Maybe not. :)
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That awkward moment when your eyes go Oedipus.... :o
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That awkward moment when your eyes go Oedipus.... :o
Hey now!! What's mom got to do with this??? :o
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I don't think he should've been allowed in. lol