ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-24, 04:31:15
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should i go 1330s-1340s
(http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN029-2.jpg) (http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN030-2.jpg)
or 1350s-1360s
(http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN045-2.jpg) (http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN044-2.jpg) (http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/KN043-2.jpg)
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I'm partial to 1330-1340 myself. Either way, it's going to be tough tracking down a dead lion to stand on. ;D
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i am thinking more of the later.
helmet w/ aventail:
(http://www.casiberia.com/img/prod/AB2971.jpg)
Coat of Plates: (but with my own flair)
(http://www.hoashantverk.se/hantverk/hoas_rustningar/image/suit_of_armour_no_01_front.jpg)
attached spaulders to rerebracers to single lame elbows to full cannon vambracers with beseguews and roundel fans.
visby style gauntlets attached to glove.
mail hauberk 3/4 sleeve riveted.
aketon/thin gambeson.
leather internal splinted chausis.
soupcan knees.
mail chausis.
gutter greaves.
simple lamed sabetons.
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http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=85129&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20century%20armour.htm
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I like that helm. What kind of flair did you have in mind for the COP? BTW, I have very much admired that kit on armor archive for quite a while, and look forward to seeing your take on the period.
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(http://www.historiclife.com/images/Historical%20Clothing/14th/full/Image115.jpg) something like that around the bottom edge.
still playing things out in my mind
not sure if i want that helmet, or just a simple bassinet with no visor and a great helmet to wear over it...
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So those are COPs, not jupons on the effigies? Have you thought about the belts? I really like plaque belts in general, and that double rig on the last effigy is pretty cool.
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no i forgot about the jupons worn over top of the cops. heck i could just use an early globose breastplate for 1360s but I like coats of plates.
i dunno. lots of little details i need to work out. ho hum hehehe
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sigh i still dont know what to do hehehe. 1330s would be easier to make really. hmmmm any more thoughts on this subject?
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I think of it like this: the more armor you must acquire, the more fun it'll be, so I'd go with the latter part of the 14th Century. For me, anyways, a lot of the fun is in the building of a kit, you know?
Thing is, if you have a good base to start with (a good mail coat, or some good plate armor parts) then your kit will be that much better when you're finished putting it all together. I've noticed that I've slowly made my way toward more current times (my first kit was 11th C, all mail, butted at that- still have the coif!) as I become more enamored with plate armor and the myriad styles and designs that you can get ahold of makes it quite a fun and rewarding exercise.
For next year, I need new legs, a helm and I need to tailor my hauberk to fit me better; seeing some of the rigs you guys wear has gotten me to thinking. :)
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Could you start 1330s and just add stuff over time to hit 1360s? That was, if I'm not mistaken, a period of rapid transition so It wouldn't look weird to be a little mixed.
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Red Knight, you could do exactly that. That's pretty much how I've done it...I've changed out pieces as it suited me to do so over the years. I no longer have any of the first parts of armor that I'd acquired...oh man...it seems I started doing this 6 or so years ago. Sure doesn't feel like it!
Anyway, I think the 'conglomerate' look would probably lend some historicity to the harness, at least from my POV.
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ya thanks guys. i think i'll start our 1330/40s and then get more add ons. only thing is the helmet/aventail. they are very different from the 2 time frames. the earlier are shorter helms with more mail, while the later are longer sides. and the earlier looks like the mail is riveted inside the helm and the later is attached to the outside. ho hum i hate being anal sometimes hehehe.
looks like i'll order some Rough from the hammer pieces and make the rest.
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Post lots of pics, Sir Wolf- evolution is always fun to witness. On an aside, do you think it'd be overkill if I sprang for my own effigy for when I kick the bucket?
What a morbid thought...
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Why not.
Just get a nice churchyard burial somewhere and place the grave/efigy so that people come up on it unawares and exclaim in surprise and delight.
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You leaning toward a brass effigy, or the full out statue?
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Why stop at brass? I think a gold statue would be good. And modest too. :)
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@ Sir Ancelyn: Maybe surprise...not sure about delight...still, it is an idea.
Gold statue...yea, not gonna be able to swing that but the full statue? That'd be worth the effort, right? It would be to me, I just need to sell the wife on the idea!
Speaking of kits, what are the thoughts of you Knights w/regard to welded mail? Was considering it as it is good looking, maybe partially historical (as some mail coats had alternating solid and riveted rings, like you guys have)??? I know I'm reaching...just liked the uniform look and they seemed to be more fitted.
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http://www.allenantiques.com/R-31.html i think i'm gonna go for the 1340s look
Wade's son really puts my kits to shame hehehe
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Do you think Wade would adopt me? :)
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No no Wade adopt me! ;)
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No me!!! ;)
Sheesh...I need a son. Wait, no I don't...then I'd have to spend double to get us equipped. I am envious tho, that kid's kit puts mine to shame as well! If looks were all that counted, then he looked more knightly than I do.
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did you check out the other suits each year?
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I did...well just now I did, didn't know there was more. Impeccable work, at least, to my untrained eye.
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hmmm what to order first? Merc Tailor soup can knees or the GDFB bassinet?
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Soupcan knees...definitely those first...then your lower body's complete, right? Plus, you know Allan's quick- you'll have'm in no time.
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no i have to have a new set for each time period. i don't like over lapping parts. if i do then i can't have a complete set for each time period. call me weird hehehe.
i am thinking of getting the GDFB padded black chausis and adding leather over them and splinting them. then wearing Allan's knees with them. not sure on if i want full, splinted or gutter greaves w/ mail.
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God, I wish I had the chutzpah to do something for every century leading up to the Renaissance...or rather, the money! How long has it taken you to get to where you are thus far? Just wondering...I know for my particular kit, its been about 5 years, adding and switching out parts...I have to go with one basic kit with add-ons as I see fit. Keeps the wife quiet if there isn't TOO much activity going on in the War Chamber. lol
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i dunno how long its taken me. i think I've got about 10 years into them maybe. if i would have been smart in the beginning I prob would be done and not all jacked up like I am now hehehe (meaning bought things i didn't need or weren't period enough etc)
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i dunno how long its taken me. i think I've got about 10 years into them maybe. if i would have been smart in the beginning I prob would be done and not all jacked up like I am now hehehe (meaning bought things i didn't need or weren't period enough etc)
Well, you can always unload on ebay and make room for more. :)
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That's what I do...as I've switched out other pieces I've let them go on eBay for a deal. Part of the fun of it, no? I wish I'd known then what I know now when it comes to swords and armor, but I do not think I would've had a true appreciation for it if it were that simple.
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http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effigy/English-Effigies.htm going to be studying this a bit more now too. forgot about the link
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http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effigy/English-Effigies.htm going to be studying this a bit more now too. forgot about the link
Oh yeah, I remember that. Very useful.
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Great link, thanks for sharing Sir Wolf...this will definitely be very helpful.
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(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/John_d_Abernon.jpg)
ya i am thinking 1340s definitely now.
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Allen's small besegues are modeled after that exact effigy.
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I guess you'll need full length chausses now. :)
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And so it begins anew...lol
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Allen's small besegues are modeled after that exact effigy.
And they are excellent too! They are also easily laced onto the strap of the elbow cop. :)
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ya i am thinking of either trying to make some or ordering a pair from him after Christmas
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I actually had an extra set last year but gave them away to a friend who liked them. Allan's really are very reasonably priced! - Huzzah for MT! :)
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Huzzah for MT!
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(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/John_d_Abernon.jpg)
thinking on how the arm harness is correctly put together.
how the sabatons stay on the feet
what do the cuisses look like
are there shoulder cops or just the rondels
how "short" is that bassinet? is it like the GDFB one with the aventail directly riveted on or like the later ones?
what if any would the guantlets look like?
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thinking on how the arm harness is correctly put together.
how the sabatons stay on the feet
what do the cuisses look like
are there shoulder cops or just the rondels
how "short" is that bassinet? is it like the GDFB one with the aventail directly riveted on or like the later ones?
what if any would the guantlets look like?
This is what makes this period so interesting, there are tantitlizingly large amounts of material to work from artistically ( funnery effigies, artwok in churches and cathedrals either sculptural or otherwise and drawn/painted examples from texts ) but realtively few survivng examples of actual armour, so we have a decent feel for the overall appearence but a fair amount that is unknown about the details.
From the artisitic evidence of the period sabatons seem to lay atop the foot rather than later all enclosing ( sans the sole of the foot ) types that would develop. The maille beneath is almost always shwon as plainly visible at the sides but seldom is any strapping shown. One would think, in order to keep the assembly from sloucing around that while pointing at the toes and side to maille might have been done, at least a strap around the heel, would do the job, but of course this is purely conjecture as this isn't revealed in artwork to us.
Cuisses in this period ( 1340's ) seem to have been of quilted/padded type with or without studs. Without survivng examples of the type depicted on occasion in artwork with studs/rivets we can only theorize that they held plates of iron, steel or hard leather on the inside of the cuisse, but sculptural/funnery artwok at this time ( a fair number of them German ) depict similar " splinted " defenses on the arms, and occasionally the lower legs.
The Pistoia alter piece while about 20 years later plainly and frequently depicts simple shoulder cops being used with developing plate harness althouhg this could simply be a regional ( Italian ) trend. Given the smooth rounded shape of the shoulder depicted if a cop is present it is not of Pistoia form but a simple half round shoulder hugging cop, unlike the spade blade shaped shoulder pieces of several survivng contemporary coats of plates.
There are several German effigies contemporanious to the oen shown that depict Wisby type gauntlets at this period. Given that it is acknolwedged that the Wisby graves are most likely populated in large part by the losing side, the peasents, and that thier gear was about 15 years out of date at the time of the battle ( 1361 ) it seems most likely that Wisby type hand protection would have been worn. There was discovered at Wisby a pair of half bell shaped plates, that when together form the basic bell shaped and sized cuff of later hourglass types of gauntlet. They were found together and it was theorized at the time of the digs ( 1920's and 1930's ) that these were the cuff plates for some early transitional form of hourgalss gauntlet.
The bascinet is of an odd form ( by that I simply mean its particular shape is unusual ) but it this case I see no reason to doubt the funnery depiction. It appears to clearly end at about cheek level and rely on a maille vantail to cover the rest of the face and neck. We can be sure in no way whether a great helm may have worn over it but it is cerainly not out of the question for this period. As far as how the maille is attached the only slight clue may, and I emphisize may as it is just as likely an artistic oversight, that the points shown around the rim of the helmet, which may be rivets holding in liner and maille or may be verveles, have neither wire or cord depicted running from one the the next, nor the leather strips which sandwich the top edge of the ventail and fit over vervels depicted, so this may give an artistic clue to the maille on this particular depiction being attached under the helmet rather than over ( or an artistic brainfart as likely ).
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started working on this. i have the 4 besegues and the simple shoulder cops cut, dished and planished. just gotta sand them down with some 200,400 and maybe 600 (if i'm lucky) sandpaper when I get some. might pattern out the rerebracer vambracers and greaves today too if I feel like it. Going to wait on the sabatons until I can purchase a pair of Viking Leather's 14th century shoes.