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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-19, 19:50:16

Title: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-19, 19:50:16
(http://www.historiclife.com/images/Historical%20Clothing/Projects/Full/RoA_Armour_09.jpg) (Sir Edward this is Kivian aka James)

has a bassinet with aventail, riveted hauberk that is tailored to fit. coat of plates, tabbard of barony colors, spring steel arms and gauntlets, padded chausis with hidden splints, spring steel soup can knees, leather gutter greaves.

i think it looks pretty cool. the bar grill is a necessary evil of course.

i like the style. although I am liking then shown and hidden (alternating) splinted chausis and full greaves too.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Brian on 2010-10-19, 20:08:11
Excellent harness! I especially liked the dagged hem on his surcoat hem and sleeves.  :)
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-19, 20:16:39

Yeah, its looking really good! I was thinking of doing something similar for the jupon/overtunic, perhaps embattled or with triangular dags.

Which event was this?
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-19, 20:31:12
i am thinking that was his battle of the thirty at pensic
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2010-10-19, 23:51:42
I like the dagged coif/aventail. Wonder where I could get one.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-20, 00:19:48
it was a forth armoury coif. i know this cause i owned it at some point. he cut off the top and dagged the bottom. i too am thinking of doing this to a GDFB coif. i don't like the riveted aventails out on the market right now. it will take some work, (and faith in the first cut) but it can be done.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 14:49:23
Where'd he get the tailored hauberk from?  I'm REALLY wanting one of those, as some of the knights on here can tell you, mine is ill-fitting as far as I'm concerned.  The arms...why must they always be like bellows?
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Brian on 2010-10-21, 14:57:06
Regrettably I think it is the price we all must pay to walk that fine line of cost/fit. Of course we have a few various methods to adjust that but it can’t be nearly as satisfying as having a fitted Haubergeon/Hauberk.  :(
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-21, 15:07:12
oh he got the rings rivets and tools and tailored it himself.

i have to agree, i love the way my butted mail fits after i tailored the long sleeves
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 15:09:40
Sir Wolf, can you give me an idea of how you went about doing it?  Been flirting with the idea of altering mine...or buying it outright if I could.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-21, 16:13:53

Yeah, customizing the riveted stuff is a pain, because of all those darn rivets! :)

In terms of adjusting the fit, one of the biggest benefits comes from removing some material from the sleeves so that they taper towards the elbow. You need to leave enough width there that you can still flex it, but make a smooth transition from the width at the shoulder down to a thinner width at the elbow. If the sleeve is longer than the elbow, you can make the width even from the elbow to the end, but you may also want to add an expansion area (gusset?) around the back of the elbow to aid in flexing too.

Adjusting the fit of the body is more difficult, since technically the back should be slightly wider than the chest (allowing the sleeves to bend forward more easily), and it should widen slightly at the shoulders. The shoulders also shouldn't be perfectly horizontal at the top, but angle up towards the neck opening slightly, since that's the natural shape of your body. Also, at the bottom of the hauberk, it should widen as it gets closer to the knees, away from your hips. This latter one is one of the easier to do, since it can just entail adding triangular expansions to the sides of the bottom of the hauberk.

These are all sorts of things that are often overlooked in off-the-shelf armor.

Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 16:50:41
So I've noticed...and we talked about this at length last Sunday.  I swear I don't have the patience but in the end, it might be worth it to attempt to alter the one I have.  I've seen newer hauberks that offer the option of tee-shirt style shoulders (where the arm hangs at 45 degrees instead of the usual 90) - hard for me to describe, see if I can dig up what I mean.  Let me go look (well, let me hit the gym first, then look)!
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-21, 17:38:23
ug don't get those. Sir Edward and i both had a set of 14 guage 3/8ths inch rings. it added so much more weight and we couldn't get our arms up high enough
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 18:19:03
Really?  Glad I checked this before I went hunting up that link...how much heavier?
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-21, 18:22:55
ug don't get those. Sir Edward and i both had a set of 14 guage 3/8ths inch rings. it added so much more weight and we couldn't get our arms up high enough

Yes, they were bad. Like this:

(http://modernchivalry.org/pictures/hauberk-diagram01.gif)

Basically, if you look at how much it would have to pull the side of the body to put your arm straight, and imagine how much more it has to pull to raise your arms above that... well, let's just say it sucked bad. Since the hauberks were 3/4" ID 14g galvanized steel, the whole hauberk weighed about 40 lbs. Then you'd have to lift it all with your arms every time you moved them. Also note how I drew the shoulders. Because the sleeve came in at an angle up high, and then flatted over the shoulder, it put most of the weight right on the tip of the shoulder joint and on the edge of the neck opening, and very little in between. Pain.

Anyone want to buy mine? It's for sale. :)  (the good news is it's easy to modify since it's all butted rings, and in fact I did some already)
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 19:13:56
Glad I checked here first!!!  The things we go through to look good I tell ya...lol
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Patrick on 2010-10-21, 20:57:37
Here's a link on tailoring maille.  It's written for butted maille, but the same idea for riveted.  Toward the bottom there's a diagram on where to put the gussets on the body.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/trevor.barker/farisles/guilds/armour/mail.htm (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/trevor.barker/farisles/guilds/armour/mail.htm)
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-21, 21:13:26
WOW you knowhow long it has been since i've seen that web page? that brings back memories for sure
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-22, 15:00:31
That's awesome...looks real time consuming too.  Anyone have a ballpark figure as to how long this might take?  I just need to alter the arms so they taper in rather than bellow out.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-22, 15:23:01

Tapering sleeves goes pretty quickly. If you're just closing up the seam with existing butt-links after taking out a section, it doesn't take too long. I tapered my half-sleeves in under an hour I think.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-22, 15:27:39
That's what I'll be doing...I don't guess it'll matter much if I use round rings when the rest're flattened?  I'm still debating...do I want to rivet them?

Of course I do...and I think having the newer rings look different from what's already there will make it look more authentic.  Wish I could get the brightness off it though...I don't like how it looks, especially in pictures.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-22, 15:39:24

Well, you want to remove material from the bottom of the sleeve, where it won't really be seen much anyway. You can get away with slightly different links, or even just lace it together.

Just be sure not to remove too much! It's easy to make that mistake. The sleeve still needs some slack in it, so you only want to remove a little bit. You might want to try using a lace and tie the sleeve together where you're thinking of making the cuts, and see if you can still bend your arm in it.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-22, 16:23:34
GREAT idea...my impatient self would do just that.  I've trimmed the sleeves already...I have 2 6" long sections that I've toyed with the idea of making into faux chausses but I didn't want to sew them onto my current pair of trews just because I...well...I wasn't sure I wanted to do that.  I'll try the lacing thing probably tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-22, 16:58:47
if u look at the latest mdrf pictures take a look at my legs. i sewed mail onto the bottom part of my padded chausis. really REALLY accomplished the look i was going for. now next year i will finish the foot covering
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-22, 17:31:43
if u look at the latest mdrf pictures take a look at my legs. i sewed mail onto the bottom part of my padded chausis. really REALLY accomplished the look i was going for. now next year i will finish the foot covering

Yep, Sir Wolf is on the left here:

(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2010/faire/b1679.jpg)
http://ed.toton.org/photos/2010/faire/b1679b.jpg (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2010/faire/b1679b.jpg)
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-22, 17:56:48
Wow, now I'm really mad I missed Saturday, you guys look awesome all together like that!  I like the mittens, Sir Wolf, your hauberk looks fantastic, and I see what you mean about the chausses...essentially the same idea I was thinking.  Now that I see that...I see it would've worked.  Unfortunately the sections I have are too short for that I think...but I'm sure I'll come up with something.
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-22, 21:33:16
well hehe so were mine. i had 4 pieces of galvanized riveted mail. they were from alternating flat and round rings. so what i did was used 16 guage butted gal rings (round) and sewed them together at the point where it was the round rivet's turn. wal-la one big piece and no one noticed. did anyone see that they tied up the back as well? nope hehehe :)

i wish i would have de-galvanized them before sewing them on. but maybe I will do that this summer
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-23, 01:30:43
did anyone see that they tied up the back as well? nope hehehe :)

Well, I did, but I'm strange that way. :)
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-23, 02:05:25
i bet u were just checkin out me bum! hehehhe jk
Title: Re: friend of mine's sca kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-25, 15:39:55
LMAO