ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Edward on 2010-09-01, 20:57:15
-
I added a page with a quick note on the pronunciation of armor terms:
http://modernchivalry.org/pronunciation.html (http://modernchivalry.org/pronunciation.html)
Anything else you think I should add?
Just a quick note on pronunciation when it comes to armor and other terminology used when discussing knights and chivalry. Most of the words we use to describe the various pieces of armor are actually English words, despite their French appearance. In many cases, this is probably due to the origins of the words being English bastardizations of French, but nevertheless, these words are English and should be pronounced as such.
Examples include "Coif", which is pronounced "koif", not "kwaf". If you check the dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coif), you'll see that it is pronounced as "kwaf" when referring to women's hair, but not in reference to armor.
The words Gorget, Sallet, Bascinet, Armet, and Tasset are pronounced with a hard "T", just like Helmet or Circlet.
When in doubt, pronounce it the way it looks from an English perspective.
-
maybe a misspronoucable bible phonic ehehhe
-
You mean "Maciejowski"? No one can agree on the pronunciation. I'm not touching that one. :)
-
Thanks Ed!
*sigh*
Now I have to re-train myself to properly pronounce gorget with a hard "T" instead of a french "eh" sound! :P
edited for spelling. I knew how to spell the word but my fingers didn't! :P
-
Yeah, I've had to retrain myself multiple times. It's a pain.
I just updated that page to make a reference to the pronunciation of Wisby as well (with the "V" sound).
-
Heh, yeah. I pronounced everything wrong and it was embarrassing when I went to an armoury. At least now I won't do it =P
-
Lessons learned, knights...for me at least. ;)
-
Cool talking dictionary! :)
Gorget: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=gorget&submit=Submit (http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=gorget&submit=Submit)
Coif: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=coif&submit=Submit (http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=coif&submit=Submit)
Not many armor terms though.
-
Thanks Ed!
*sigh*
Now I have to re-train myself to properly pronounce gorget with a hard "T" instead of a french "eh" sound! :P
edited for spelling. I knew how to spell the word but my fingers didn't! :P
I do the same thing. Armet, tasset - all hard T for me. Gorget used to be hard. For a long time now, it's been soft. Seems like I saw that in a book somewhere and "retrained" myself. Time for another retraining.
How about "haubergeon"? I have heard it as "how-ber-geon" and "haw-ber-geon" and don't know which is correct.
How about "halberd"? I have heard it as "hal-berd" and "hal-bear". Reasonably sure it should be "berd"?
-
Yes, I believe it should be a hard "d" on the end of halberd. But I've heard the first syllable as both "hal" (like "pal") and the word "hall". I think for hauberk and haubergeon, either pronunciation for the first syllable is fine. Or at least, I've never seen anyone be picky about it. :)
The funny thing with those hard "T" sounds is that so many people believe they should be pronounced like a soft French-like "T" that they'll try to correct you. But they're clearly meant to be hard. For instance, there's a period writing somewhere in which a play on words is intended, comparing a Sallet to a Salad. The similarity isn't there if you pronounce the helmet as "Sallay". I don't remember whose writing it is in, perhaps Das Bill will remember, since he's the one who told me about it.
-
Dang it, now it looks like I've been mispronouncing "Hospitaller" (as in, the Knights Hospitaller).
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hospitaller (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hospitaller)
Emphasis belongs on the first syllable. The "a" is almost unpronounced. Very close to the word "hospital" (of course) with an "r" sound tacked on.
I've always pronounced it with the "all" syllable getting the emphasis, and sounding like the name "Al". Ooops.
-
Dang it, now it looks like I've been mispronouncing "Hospitaller" (as in, the Knights Hospitaller).
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hospitaller (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hospitaller)
Emphasis belongs on the first syllable. The "a" is almost unpronounced. Very close to the word "hospital" (of course) with an "r" sound tacked on.
I've always pronounced it with the "all" syllable getting the emphasis, and sounding like the name "Al". Ooops.
I've done the same thing, and as best as I can remember, the couple people I've heard say it have said it the same way too.
-
I've done the same thing, and as best as I can remember, the couple people I've heard say it have said it the same way too.
What drew my attention to it was their order being mentioned on the Chivalry Today podcast, where they dropped that syllable altogether, and said it like "Hospitler". I wonder how widespread the various pronunciations are, and whether our way of saying it is truly wrong.
-
Chalk one up for me, I've been saying it right, well most of the time anyway. I'll admit I have slipped into saying it differently sometimes from hearing others say it that way. It's kinda like being around someone speaking in an accent and finding yourself drifting into copying the way they talk. Annoying to both you and them, no doubt, but when left to my own devices, I have pronounced it more like Hospitler. Nice to know I wasn't doing it wrong after all.
-
i always say it as hospi tatler for some reason hehe
-
I've done the same thing, and as best as I can remember, the couple people I've heard say it have said it the same way too.
What drew my attention to it was their order being mentioned on the Chivalry Today podcast, where they dropped that syllable altogether, and said it like "Hospitler". I wonder how widespread the various pronunciations are, and whether our way of saying it is truly wrong.
Got me...I say and write it as Hospitaliers...but I'm unsure where I got that from.
-
I also added to the pronunciation page a quick note about Hauberk and Haubergeon: Hauberk is pronounced "HAW-berk", and haubergeon is pronounced as "HAW-ber-jun".
For a lot of the pronunciations, I've been checking them against dictionary.com. Usually it just confirms what you can infer from other sources, that they should have English pronunciations, and we shouldn't put a French spin on them.
-
ya i saw haw berk
but i say haw ber gee ton for some dumb reason
-
I say mail shirt and you all get it. lol
-
You should try growing up in a household that, 3 generations later, still speaks some Yiddish.
Then go out into the world and hear the goyim try to speak it. Oy.
-
I love Yiddish terms...they seem to, I don't know, just fit. I grew up in a neighborhood that had a number of Jewish families, both orthodox and well...non-orthodox? Anyway, so I'd hear those terms regularly...