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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Edward on 2010-04-06, 15:02:13
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I was thinking about this again recently, and decided to take another look at the dictionary concerning the word "coif".
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coif (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coif)
Here it says it's pronounced with the "koif" pronunciation typically, and "kwaf" in the second sense, which refers to an arrangement of hair.
I used to always pronounce it in the more French sort of "kwaf" in past years, but for the last few I've been trying to adjust to the anglicized "koif" pronunciation.
I really hope the dictionary is right on this one. I'd hate to keep flip-flopping back and forth.
What other pieces of armor do you think there's a lot of confusion on the pronunciation?
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sallet
bevor
gorget
beesagues
barbute(a)
gambeson/aketon/arming jacket/jack/ etc definitions
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Yeah, my current understanding is that sallet, gorget, armet, tasset, and bascinet all have the same "et" as "helmet" or "wallet".
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I have heard sallet pronounced sal-lay and gorget pronounced Gor-jay. The other two I have always heard -et as in hem-et.
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Yeah, there's a strong tendency for people to want to pronounce them with a French pronunciations, but it's my understanding that they're English words (perhaps bastardizations of French words), and should have a hard T.
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Yeah, I hadn't realized the correct pronounciation of coif until you told me, Ed. But the dictionary is definitely the more trusted source, particularly an etymological one that traces back the origin of words.
I have heard sallet pronounced sal-lay and gorget pronounced Gor-jay. The other two I have always heard -et as in hem-et.
That's how most people pronounce them, but Ed is right: They're English words. Just as "Helmet" is not pronounced "Helm-ay", those words are supposed to be pronounced with a hard "T". In fact, I believe in Henry VIII (though it might be one of the other Shakespeare Henry's, I can't remember off of the top of my head) there's a play on words where a person is confusing the word "sallet" and "salad"... and that only makes sense if you pronounce "sallet" with a hard "T".
Of course, the moment you start saying them correctly, you have to deal with everyone "correcting" you all the time. :)
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Yeah, I hadn't realized the correct pronounciation of coif until you told me, Ed. But the dictionary is definitely the more trusted source, particularly an etymological one that traces back the origin of words.
I have heard sallet pronounced sal-lay and gorget pronounced Gor-jay. The other two I have always heard -et as in hem-et.
That's how most people pronounce them, but Ed is right: They're English words. Just as "Helmet" is not pronounced "Helm-ay", those words are supposed to be pronounced with a hard "T". In fact, I believe in Henry VIII (though it might be one of the other Shakespeare Henry's, I can't remember off of the top of my head) there's a play on words where a person is confusing the word "sallet" and "salad"... and that only makes sense if you pronounce "sallet" with a hard "T".
Of course, the moment you start saying them correctly, you have to deal with everyone "correcting" you all the time. :)
That’s kind of funny you reference a situation like that because in German you pronounce their word for salad (salat) with a hard “AT” sound! ;)
Basically for me all pronunciation of French words (and even most English for that matter) is messed up from my latent Maine accent where the sounds of the A’s and R’s are reversed. :D
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I've also heard it pronounced and written as salade.....
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its so hard to break out of the routine though. like stop saying chain before mail. hehehe
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its so hard to break out of the routine though. like stop saying chain before mail. hehehe
Yeah, I find myself saying "chainmail" a lot simply because the word "mail" is often confusing to the layman. If I'm describing things to family or co-workers, for instance. Ugh.
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i know exactly what you mean with Maille, which is why when writing, I ussually try to use the anachronistic spelling maille, instead of mail. I've tried explaining the difference of maille, plate and maille and plate armors to guys I game several times with and they just look at me and sigh every time.
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Thankfully I never got into the habit of saying "platemail" from my D&D days.
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"It's plate armor with chainmail underneath...I'll call it Platemail" ~ from the lost notebook of Gary Gygax ;)
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I always thought platemail was the lazy way of saying plate and maille, or they were simply dumbing down the term for simplification of the game. :'(
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Actually, believe it or not, it doesn't originate from D&D (though D&D popularized the term). Its what Victorian scholars called it. In fact, they called most armor "mail". There's no such thing as plate mail, scale mail, banded mail, ring mail, etc. Plate armor at least is sometimes combined with mail, so at least that could almost make sense... but the rest of the names don't even involve mail, so its strange that they named the armors that way. Ring mail is the worst, because that's what mail is. :)
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I'll just refer to it as what we ALL know it to be....badass.....! ;D
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I'll just refer to it as what we ALL know it to be....badass.....! ;D
But isn't that all armor in general? ;D I guess the different types can be told by the inflection in the pronunciation. ;)