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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2014-08-05, 19:48:22
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Well ever since I realized how hot my current gambeson is in the heat I have been considering getting a layered gambeson in natural colored linen. I nearly passed out at PA ren faire from being dehydrated and the heat exhaustion. I suppose the layers of linen would breath better than cotton felt batting and be just as good as a padded one. My question is how many layers would be ideal for this? I am asking around because I could commission Badass Garbs to make another. I would think this would trap less heat and breath better as well as possibly be better protected. I know some polish sites do offer this option but it's a bit expensive as linens expensive as hell. Cottons another option but I dont think thats breaths as well as linen does. I would prefer a badass garb one due to their thickness not being too thick and would fit my maille better. Last thing I want is my maille to be too tight to fit through the gambeson... That would really be a shame and I want to prevent it.
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I wear 3 layers of linen from Fabric-Store.com that I sewed myself.
Top is 7.1 oz canvas. Next 2 are 5.3 oz. Best piece of kit I own.
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3 is always good number for layers.. it's just a matter of thickness and material.
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Natural fibers breathe better.
Linen is expensive, yep.
If you aren't fighting in it, protection level is almost completely irrelevant, except where the padding reduces fatigue (like shoulders, etc).
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You can actually see my gambeson in my profile pic. I've worn it in the summer heat of the Sacramento–San Joaquin Delta. It worked great.
What will you be wearing over it and will you plan to fight in it?
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I know some polish sites do offer this option but it's a bit expensive as linens expensive as hell. Cottons another option but I dont think thats breaths as well as linen does.
Linen is pretty cheap. It's about $7-$10 a yard, nice wool fabrics are double to triple that. You're not paying for the linen when you go to those sites, you're paying for a custom fit garment that's properly shaped and quilted. The real expensive stuff is the hand constructed garments. It's the labor and proper construction that's making them expensive, not the materials. Cotton breathes just fine, but cotton fabric wouldn't be appropriate if you're going for a historical gambeson for your time period.
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cheap? thats expensive! lol more than it was when i made my 25 layer jack hehehe
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cheap? thats expensive! lol more than it was when i made my 25 layer jack hehehe
$7 for good quality linen is a good deal. My whole CdB used way less than the 10 yards of linen I bought, so for less than $70 I think I got off pretty good. I'm sure there's cheaper out there but I don't know all the secret LH handshakes to get the good deals :)
Besides, he's talking about custom linen gambesons being over $300 as a justification for 'linen being expensive.' The entire cost of supplies on the retail side of the house is less than $100 for all the linen, thread, and stuffing. Plus you have to consider that commercial stores are buying linen at way cheaper rates than retail. So my point is it's not the linen that's expensive in a $300 gambeson, it's the labor and expertise that you're paying for. The raw materials are but a fraction of that cost.
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True. When I made my gambeson, if I had paid myself just $10/hr, it would have cost $235.
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I know some polish sites do offer this option but it's a bit expensive as linens expensive as hell. Cottons another option but I dont think thats breaths as well as linen does.
Linen is pretty cheap. It's about $7-$10 a yard, nice wool fabrics are double to triple that. You're not paying for the linen when you go to those sites, you're paying for a custom fit garment that's properly shaped and quilted. The real expensive stuff is the hand constructed garments. It's the labor and proper construction that's making them expensive, not the materials. Cotton breathes just fine, but cotton fabric wouldn't be appropriate if you're going for a historical gambeson for your time period.
It's been a couple years but I think cotton was $3/yd when I was at JoAnn's last, so $7/yd is more than double. I tried a muslin prototype, at $1/yd, but it didn't go well, and I gave up. Relatively speaking, linen is expensive compared with cotton.
But I completely agree on the primary part of the cost being the custom cut & labor aspect. :)
A Revival arming coat, linen, two layers, no padding, is $250, and that's a "pick from a couple standard sizes" off-the-peg price. Historic Enterprises is even more expensive.
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lol i meant ehhe i was just playing man. i last bought linen a bolt wasn't even 100 bucks
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Well ever since I realized how hot my current gambeson is in the heat I have been considering getting a layered gambeson in natural colored linen. I nearly passed out at PA ren faire from being dehydrated and the heat exhaustion.
You know you can mitigate that by drinking water throughout the day? Whenever you've got your body under load (that is, carrying weight it wouldn't normally carry) then you have to take precautions to make sure said body can continue to function throughout a given period of time. Drinking plenty of water, as well as upping your caloric intake, at least for that day, will help quite a bit in keeping such things manageable.
I should also add, sugary and/or alcoholic beverages will actually make it worse, so sucking down soda, ale or hard cider's not going to help in the long run.
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You know you can mitigate that by drinking water throughout the day? Whenever you've got your body under load (that is, carrying weight it wouldn't normally carry) then you have to take precautions to make sure said body can continue to function throughout a given period of time. Drinking plenty of water, as well as upping your caloric intake, at least for that day, will help quite a bit in keeping such things manageable.
I should also add, sugary and/or alcoholic beverages will actually make it worse, so sucking down soda, ale or hard cider's not going to help in the long run.
Definitely this! Even at LH demos when I'm relatively immobile during the day standing or sitting at my station I still pound water when I have the opportunity (and still never have to pee during the day). If you're not drinking tons of water you're wrong. You can actually severely injure yourself if you keep going through heat exhaustion and cause heat stroke, which is potentially fatal. This is especially true if your constantly walking around, or fighting. I'l usually keep camelbaks and water containers in my tent and fill up my period container all the time so I can keep hydrating in public view. If it's at something like a ren faire, I'll just drink straight from the camelbak constantly.
Save the ale, mead and hard cider or your soft drink of choice til after the event :)
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Yeah I actually almost passed out from being in the sun talking for a while with 2 reenactors. I feel bad cause I cut the convo short but I really needed a drink having drank nothing but coffee. I hate how they wouldnt allow me to bring a bottle of water in and I had to pay 3 bucks for a bottle there which I hate buying bottled water. Though at smaller events people actually gave me it for FREE saying "you must be thirsty in all that armor" which was kind enough. I need to get a flask of leather or something and fill it with water as part of my kit so I will look period still and not carrying a plastic bottle around. I tend to avoid soda anyway so thats not too much an issue and I rarely drink alcohol due to it reacting poorly with anti histamines I regularly take for my allergies. Though if anyone knows a decent period flask that wont break if I drop it please link me to one, I would like to get one I just hate carrying breakable pottery with me and that pewter mug I got isnt period enough IMO nor is closeable.
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I carry a Mary Rose style costrel with me pretty much all the time at Faire or reenactments. It is honestly the best investment I made for this. I know Jas Townsend sells a slightly smaller one: http://jas-townsend.com/leather-costrel-p-1304.html. (http://jas-townsend.com/leather-costrel-p-1304.html.) I have a buddy who has theirs, and it's identical to mine, except slightly smaller and black leather instead of the red of mine. You will need to watch their video on how to line it with brewers pitch and I highly recomend getting some pitch with it, as dropping it will result in it leaking. Relining it solves that. And I can attest to the don't be stingy with the pitch recomendation. I have not had any of the Faire security people say anything about it either, and I know that both days I was at PaRF this season, they saw it as I entered. Maybe it's that they know me already, but more than likely it's let the guy in armor take his water in. Along with drinking though, remember to eat throughout the day. Especially bread and other dough based foods. My experience is they provide energy and help in the absorbtion of the water.
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Well ever since I realized how hot my current gambeson is in the heat I have been considering getting a layered gambeson in natural colored linen. I nearly passed out at PA ren faire from being dehydrated and the heat exhaustion.
You know you can mitigate that by drinking water throughout the day? Whenever you've got your body under load (that is, carrying weight it wouldn't normally carry) then you have to take precautions to make sure said body can continue to function throughout a given period of time. Drinking plenty of water, as well as upping your caloric intake, at least for that day, will help quite a bit in keeping such things manageable.
I should also add, sugary and/or alcoholic beverages will actually make it worse, so sucking down soda, ale or hard cider's not going to help in the long run.
Lies and blasphemy! Do you know how much Coke and Jolly Rancher soda was consumed by Sir Nathan and I this year at VARF? I think I spent most of the day in full harness, with a few "take off the cuirass" cheats on a day or two. You know what's a primary ingredient in sodas? Water! So if you aren't getting enough hydration, drink more soda, since it means more water from that soda.
OK completely sarcastic on that. Kinda. Sir Nathan and I did kill a number of sodas those two weekends and the weather was moderate compared to the 95* weekends we usually had. :)
I function great with soda / sugary stuff while in armor and heat... so long as that intake continues. An hour or two after I'm out of armor and haven't had soda? Mild headaches to outright migraine, and I get moody. But I'm built like a mule so I handle the weight fairly well. I do suggest following Sir William and Sir Ian's advice about more water.
If there's anything that breathes less than modern quilted padding, it's plate armor, and I'm quite familiar with that "I'm baking from the inside out!" feeling. If you're getting dehydrated, you're doing it wrong; if you have to pee, you're doing it wrong. Find that moderate spot.
But don't let it sway you from buying another gambeson too. ;)
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Well lately I been deciding to wear my armor on a treadmill and run just to build up my stamina for it. Would do it outside but I'm in a small town and the cops already thought I was a burglar so I dun wanna be suspicious and get pulled over by them. Not sure if this is the best thing to do but it should work in theory. Still need a better gambeson for it though. Also need to keep my caloric intake better because my folks have a habit of buying low calorie food and I dont want to lose muscle mass by not eating enough stuff.
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That's not a bad idea, Ulrich- provided the treadmill can accomodate the extra weight- might be worth having a look at the owner's manual to see what the max weight load is that it can take. Would not be worthwhile to break it, you know? Those things can be pretty costly in and of themselves.
Sir Brian was having a little fun but he brings up a valid point- when you sweat, it isn't just water that you lose, but salt and sugar as well so it pays to resupply those reserves in the blood stream. Some people opt for a quickfix of candy or soda- and if that works for you, then that's what you should go with. Drink plenty of fluids- and if you find yourself having to pee, you might be drinking a tad too much (happens to me when I drink ale or cider, just runs right through lol) but also eat. I prefer protein pickmeups like steak on a stake but I sometimes carry beef jerky in a pak in case I start feeling light headed and don't want to stand in line.
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Don't forget your electrolytes too. Drink some of the sports drinks as well to keep that up, sugar really isn't good for you, particularly the fructose, it leads to clotting of arteries in perfectly otherwise healthy athletes. It is fine in moderation and the sugar boost can help but honestly choosing a healthier option is best like fruit. You get the sugar but not the spike. As for headaches and migraines it sounds like the body has become dependent on that level of sugar and caffeine intake. Not the healthiest option but there ya go. :) Of course all of this comes from living with a scientist so.....yeah I have learned more about food, what is in food, and what it does to you than I ever had any desire to know before.
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Don't forget your electrolytes too. Drink some of the sports drinks as well to keep that up, sugar really isn't good for you, particularly the fructose, it leads to clotting of arteries in perfectly otherwise healthy athletes. It is fine in moderation and the sugar boost can help but honestly choosing a healthier option is best like fruit. You get the sugar but not the spike. As for headaches and migraines it sounds like the body has become dependent on that level of sugar and caffeine intake. Not the healthiest option but there ya go. :) Of course all of this comes from living with a scientist so.....yeah I have learned more about food, what is in food, and what it does to you than I ever had any desire to know before.
Yes gatorade and vitamin water do well for electrolytes or salt and sugar.
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Sir Brian was having a little fun
Sir Brian, eh? Too much green grass in my profile pic? 8)
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One of the rules of thumb for avoiding dehydration, is to replace water hourly, and salt/electrolytes daily.
That is, you can dehydrate very quickly if you're not careful, but the electrolytes can be replenished at the end of your workout, or later in the day if it comes to that. Salt deprivation can be pretty nasty, but it usually takes a day or two of sweating to drive you to lethargy and other problems, if you've kept up on re-hydrating with water alone.
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One of the rules of thumb for avoiding dehydration, is to replace water hourly, and salt/electrolytes daily.
That is, you can dehydrate very quickly if you're not careful, but the electrolytes can be replenished at the end of your workout, or later in the day if it comes to that. Salt deprivation can be pretty nasty, but it usually takes a day or two of sweating to drive you to lethargy and other problems, if you've kept up on re-hydrating with water alone.
The other rule of thumb is avoid getting hit in them. Right, Sir Brian? :)