ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Sir Nate on 2014-02-05, 22:01:44
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What makes butted maille armor so bad?
Wasn't it use in the Middle East?
Or history in general?
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Butted maille is only strong if made from considerably thick gauges of wire. Otherwise upon impact the rings deform very easily and fall off. It becomes more hassle than it's worth. Thick gauges of wire mean heavy armor. A riveted maille can be made much lighter for equivalent if not superior protection value than a very heavy butted maille shirt.
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Butted rings are more likely to pop open under stress. There's nothing holding the ends together other than the ring's own strength; just an open gap. Riveted rings are overlapped, then held secure with another solid piece of metal. The rings could still fail under the right circumstances, of course, but it's a lot stronger.
Edit: Ninja'd by Ian.
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Butted maille is only strong if made from considerably thick gauges of wire. Otherwise upon impact the rings deform very easily and fall off. It becomes more hassle than it's worth. Thick gauges of wire mean heavy armor. A riveted maille can be made much lighter for equivalent if not superior protection value than a very heavy butted maille shirt.
Ya I thought about that, just confirming it.
Indeed
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think about it. when i used to make 14 and 16 guage mail coifs and shirts I would bend the rings together with my fingers... would this stop a sword cut then?
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think about it. when i used to make 14 and 16 guage mail coifs and shirts I would bend the rings together with my fingers... would this stop a sword cut then?
No....
But I have a thick wired maille hauberk. And I need a tool to work with it.
But some areas weren't put together very well.
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i bet u have 16 guage lol
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i bet u have 16 guage lol
Ye olde mother has 16gauge!
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Off the top of my head I believe Far East (Japan) used butted mail somewhat frequently. However, they didn't use the European pattern, they didn't have all round rings, and it was sewn "flat" against the fabric sleeves (kote).
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Off the top of my head I believe Far East (Japan) used butted mail somewhat frequently. However, they didn't use the European pattern, they didn't have all round rings, and it was sewn "flat" against the fabric sleeves (kote).
Ohhh, Far East. Ok, well I guess over all butted maille is decoration.
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Could always weld each piece.
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You could, but then it would still be historically inaccurate...not to mention, you're talking about over 10,000 individual welds; a lot of time and effort. I was once like you- maybe worse because I needed instant gratification and had the means at my disposal...but thousands of dollars later, not to mention over a dozen different shirts, habergeons and hauberks later, I'm still in the market for something new and better.
I'm not sure if I would have been better served to have gotten exactly what I want and need from the beginning as part of the fun of this hobby is in acquisitions- at least, that is the case for me. ymmv
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You could, but then it would still be historically inaccurate...not to mention, you're talking about over 10,000 individual welds; a lot of time and effort. I was once like you- maybe worse because I needed instant gratification and had the means at my disposal...but thousands of dollars later, not to mention over a dozen different shirts, habergeons and hauberks later, I'm still in the market for something new and better.
I'm not sure if I would have been better served to have gotten exactly what I want and need from the beginning as part of the fun of this hobby is in acquisitions- at least, that is the case for me. ymmv
I am saving money for a soft kit and after that I am saving money for historically accurate Items in terms of armor. The outfit you see me in, in ny pictures, was before I cared about historically accurate stuff. But after being on this forum I am saving for top notch accurate stuff. Again, before I just bought whatever I thought would look cool. I am currently stuck between butted chausses for $70 or flat wedged for $350. Its such a mental battle haha. Buy it now or wait a year.
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I know what you mean...having been there, done that and in some cases, still doing it. For whatever reason, I still peruse the MRL/Windlass catalog and if I see something I like, I might get it- even though it'll be anachronistic and not authentic to any one period, if at all. That applies mostly to swords though, and the occasional garment- never the armor as most of it sucks both in quality and fitment.
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I know what you mean...having been there, done that and in some cases, still doing it. For whatever reason, I still peruse the MRL/Windlass catalog and if I see something I like, I might get it- even though it'll be anachronistic and not authentic to any one period, if at all. That applies mostly to swords though, and the occasional garment- never the armor as most of it sucks both in quality and fitment.
That sounds farbish.
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I know what you mean...having been there, done that and in some cases, still doing it. For whatever reason, I still peruse the MRL/Windlass catalog and if I see something I like, I might get it- even though it'll be anachronistic and not authentic to any one period, if at all. That applies mostly to swords though, and the occasional garment- never the armor as most of it sucks both in quality and fitment.
Funny you should mention windlass, recently I have been eyeing up their European Sword for I have heard it was a fairly decent blade and in my budget. But according to the Windlass site it is a 15th not 14th c. Sword. The only armor I wanted from there was a bascinet ment to be worn under a great helm. Therion arms was selling the product too. Sadly both discontinued them.
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sir edward has that helmet.
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sir edward has that helmet.
Great, now he knows. Now sir ed will have to hide his helmet every weekend.
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Sir Edward...
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Aiden, need I remind you of how the bagpipe of Ohara mcnallys goat named haggis was made?