ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: LionPride32 on 2013-12-29, 07:57:14
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"Long Live King Richard!!!
Morning Crusaders
I've been looking at what Kult ofAthena has for armor that I may add to my kit. First of all, MAIL. I don't know which kind to get, some are notably more expensive than others...Id also like vambraces, maybe shoulder guards, and a nice solid pair of gloves. Helmet I will get into last. Any recommendations? What kind (guage) mail does anyone else have? Price ranges??? I just don't wanna break the bank for my kit...hehehe
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From my research it seems you are going to want Wedge Riveted Solid Rings that are flattened...It is the most comfortable and durable type of mail
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB2484&name=Chain+Mail+Hauberk+-+Wedge+Riveted-Solid+Ring+-+Flattened+ring+-+Mild+Steel+48%27%27+Chest (http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB2484&name=Chain+Mail+Hauberk+-+Wedge+Riveted-Solid+Ring+-+Flattened+ring+-+Mild+Steel+48%27%27+Chest)
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From my research it seems you are going to want Wedge Riveted Solid Rings that are flattened...It is the most comfortable and durable type of mail
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB2484&name=Chain+Mail+Hauberk+-+Wedge+Riveted-Solid+Ring+-+Flattened+ring+-+Mild+Steel+48%27%27+Chest (http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB2484&name=Chain+Mail+Hauberk+-+Wedge+Riveted-Solid+Ring+-+Flattened+ring+-+Mild+Steel+48%27%27+Chest)
Wedge rivets are not appropriate for the crusader era. Which begs the question, are you interested in a historical kit or a fantasy kit? By fantasy I don't necessarily mean elves, dwarves, and orcs, but also mixing time periods, like plate shoulders on an otherwise maille kit which would have never been appropriate for any historical time period.
Give us some guidelines and we can help you much better. Many of us are very experienced with specific time periods and how to go about getting armor done right.
The other vital part is what do you plan to use the armor for? If you're interested in the SCA, their armor requirements are very different from what you would wear if you were going for a historical kit.
TL:DR - Historical or fantasy? What's the purpose of the armor going to be? Give us as specific a time period as possible (to the decade or quarter century) if you're interested in historical.
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Sir Ian covered it well, including wedge rivet appropriateness; we can give better answers when we know the purpose(s) of the armor.
If there's a specific question for the different types, let me know. I've had butted mail before, and also have GDFB and IceFalcon, in both pin rivet and wedge rivet, in both mild and stainless. (Yes, I'm registered and participating in AAA - Armor Addicts Anonymous)
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If for historical I think Crusaders had domed riveted?
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Crusaders had dome riveted round ring maille with alternating flat punched rings. That can be gotten rather cheaply here http://allbeststuff.com/ (http://allbeststuff.com/) Also they do tailoring as well which I would of gotten this maille had I known about it before I purchased my hauberk.
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Well, right down to the last atomic detail, I'm such a Lionheart wanna-be, I basically want, as close as I can possibly get, to the whole setup that he would have worn either on the Third Crusade, or after that, during his constant wars with Phillipe of France. What I have now is this : Red Tunic (Plantagent Coat of Arms) and 2 swords LOL A William Marshall sword (Deepeeka, but very solid. And very blunt...Trust me, I'm just gettin started ;) Other sword is King Richard sword from Robin Hood movie - very eye catching, really nice! THAT'S IT. I'm kinda on a budget, so I want a decent hauberek and hood (coif?) For...mehhh 150 bucks. Plus gloves and a helm. So....what doth these warriors assume for the future Thomas III?
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long sleeved hauberk and coif.
no plate armour.
helmet pre 1200
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I think I pretty much have it down exactly what I'm gonna get for my kit. I just don't , well, CAN'T spend a ton on mail. There's so many options on KOA, cheaper on Amazon.com. I just don't know which is best quality for my money. Then there's the gloves...metal gauntlets or just plain leather? I saw some that fit like reg. Leather, but have mail on the front part. Then the headpiece...where to look for that? Oh yeah, another belt too lol
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well, POST LINKS lol or pictures of what you are thinking and we will yeah or ban, err i mean nay for you lol ahhahaha
prob by late 1100s mittens attached to the hauberk. would have leather palms with a split. the coif may have been attached then as well... but for that i just put my coif on first then the hauberk and you really can't see the seams
now remember most period belts weren't that wide. check out raymonds quiet press etc https://www.quietpress.com/ (https://www.quietpress.com/) for ideas. look at the belt width requirements
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Butted mail is by far the cheapest, but the biggest headache, in my opinion. Some of the stuff on eBay comes from India, where some regular stores get it, but the shipping can be excessive since it isn't already imported in bulk. As Sir Wolf said, links are great for us to help give feedback. You won't find a hauberk and coif for $150, except *maybe* butted mail. But be prepared for weight, and replacing rings more often than with riveted.
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My 2 cents:
Master Knuut's welded aventail I bought 2 years ago is holding up well and I'm rather glad I spent the $250 for it. It was $25 cheaper than the wedge rivited stuff.
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My 2 cents:
Master Knuut's welded aventail I bought 2 years ago is holding up well and I'm rather glad I spent the $250 for it. It was $25 cheaper than the wedge rivited stuff.
People swear by Master Knuut's stuff up and down. It's welded, so not historic for crusader era, but if you don't mind that, it will hold up probably better than any other form of maille. If you want riveted to be historic, the GDFB stuff at Kult of Athena is great as is the stuff that Duke Icefalcon sells.
I would avoid butted maille and I would also avoid the zinc coated galvanized maille. Mild steel is the best if you don't mind keeping it oiled. Stainless looks the part but is expensive.
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Also there is Duke Andreas Icefalke of Icefalcon Armories who sells maille. I was going to buy his $275 wedge-riveted maille aventail but I looked at my wallet and decided not having to maintain it as much was going to really matter if the economy didn't pick up (and it didn't out here).
However when I have the cash for a byrnie it'll be period stuff all the way.
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I bought a pin riveted stainless 9mm pin riveted aventail for around $125. I think KOA? Maybe $15 for shipping.
I've found IceFalcon and GDFB/KOA to be similar in quality and customer service too.
I've seen historical mail that looks almost so flush and smooth you have to look close to see that it isn't welded. Super smooth. I've debated on welded mail for voiders and a fauld; it's hard to tailor unless you use butted or riveted rings (or can weld), but for loosely shaped items like voiders and fauld, seems like a valid option.
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Is dome riveted maille 'crusader-era' appropriate??
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Is dome riveted maille 'crusader-era' appropriate??
yep, dome riveted with alternating rows of riveted and punched rings would be appropriate. With the concession that our 'dome-riveted' doesn't really look like their rivets, but it's a close as you're gonna get without going custom.
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ya dome vs wedge. in my book both are just as off as the other compared to the originals. but if thats the only look you are going for, get the domed
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Well men, I got my chainmail coif last week. Its cheap, I must admit, but I'm on a budget for now. I have some faux gloves too, ok for costume, til I get real leather ones. My kit is nearing completeion, altough I'm typing frrom a phone and don't know HOW to copy and paste a link to my facebook page... I suppose maybe I can just provide my full name, and check out my pics on Facebook fromvthere, or I can email Sir Edward and attach pics of my weapons and kit, for him to distribute to the other members? I'm about ready to fill out my application, I'm excited!! So please let me know what to do in requards to phtots please. Thanks men!!
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There are several options for sharing photos, actually. FB works, of course, as well as uploading as attachments here.
But probably what will be easiest for you is to set up a web album on PhotoBucket, Flickr, Imgur, or one of those kinds of photo-sharing sites. Most of them will even give you the links you need in BB-code format for pasting into a forum post. Imgur makes this really easy, I've noticed. It's been a while since I've played with the others, but they're probably pretty easy too these days).
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Flickr is tied to yahoo, and has 1 TB storage. If you have a yahoo, you can use it for Flickr, no separate accounts.
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Flickr is tied to yahoo, and has 1 TB storage. If you have a yahoo, you can use it for Flickr, no separate accounts.
Well how about that? I've been playing around with the idea of signing up for a photo-sharing site for quite some time, but kept putting if off because I didn't want to have to deal with yet another log-in and password. Had I known ages ago that it was that simple..... ::)
I can be a little technologically illiterate at times. :P
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Flickr is owned by Yahoo yes, but they let you log in with your google account or facebook account. I use my google account so I don't even worry about a yahoo account. Flickr's always been my hosting service of choice.
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Imgur also lets you log in with social-accounts. I just tried it out for the first time this week, and found it easy to work with.
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Sir Ulrich that armor site is awesome, Ill have to buy my Long sleeve Riveted maille there.
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http://allbeststuff.com/9-mm-Flat-Riveted-Solid-Ring-Chain-Mail-Aventail (http://allbeststuff.com/9-mm-Flat-Riveted-Solid-Ring-Chain-Mail-Aventail)
68 USD shipped to my door? That can't be right. Anyone bought from them an aventail? I can't find any reviews online. I mean if they are legit...I totally am getting a blackened aventail for my munitions blackened bascinet for SCA!
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http://allbeststuff.com/9-mm-Flat-Riveted-Solid-Ring-Chain-Mail-Aventail (http://allbeststuff.com/9-mm-Flat-Riveted-Solid-Ring-Chain-Mail-Aventail)
68 USD shipped to my door? That can't be right. Anyone bought from them an aventail? I can't find any reviews online. I mean if they are legit...I totally am getting a blackened aventail for my munitions blackened bascinet for SCA!
Ya It's Crazy, Im gonna save a fortune with this place. Or my Parents are(Don't worry i'm not spoiled, I buy alot of my stuff.)
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http://allbeststuff.com/9-mm-Flat-Riveted-Solid-Ring-Chain-Mail-Aventail (http://allbeststuff.com/9-mm-Flat-Riveted-Solid-Ring-Chain-Mail-Aventail)
68 USD shipped to my door? That can't be right. Anyone bought from them an aventail? I can't find any reviews online. I mean if they are legit...I totally am getting a blackened aventail for my munitions blackened bascinet for SCA!
I would be cautious ordering that. Some quick googling isn't finding any reviews or discussions about that website, meaning it's probably new, and it is based on a generic shopping cart. While not directly indicative of problems, it's worth noting that anyone can set something like that up, in minutes, and fraudulent sites have done so in the past. It might be legit, but there is no way to know based on current information.
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Yeah, I have seen lots of their stuff on ebay...but I am wary...especially as I post this and was looking for a review this morning all of a sudden one appeared!
Andreas on 15/01/2014
1 reviews
This product is well made. as the picture shows this is only the bottom part and not hooded. overall satisfied.
So either that is really lucky for me or someone notice someone searching and put a fake review up...I think I will wait and see if Ulrich buys from them first ;)
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They have 100% on Ebay but not the same inventory...so it makes me wonder...maybe I will contact them on ebay and see if the website is their really and if so could they put the aventail on ebay for me to purchase through there for fraud prevention.
http://www.ebay.com/usr/all_beststuff (http://www.ebay.com/usr/all_beststuff)
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I'd contact them on ebaY- as far as I know they are one and the same but I'm not sure. I've done business with ABS on ebaY so I'd go with them. They've got a pretty large catalog of maille items and it looks like they're trying to vary it a bit, give multiple options. I'm considering using them for my next maille purchase if I don't hear back from someone about a specific vendor.
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Sounds like a plan to me! What are shipping times like with them?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Seen them on eBay before but not on a website. That's REALLY cheap for a riveted aventail. I'm wondering if it's legit too.
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Since its coming from India, I figure at least three to four weeks. Might surprise you and come sooner but that's my usual expectation.
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They are the same place I purchased my riveted maille sheet from on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271336081742#ht_1941wt_918 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/271336081742#ht_1941wt_918)
I still have a good three weeks before I receive my order but if you aren't in any rush to purchase from them I can let everyone know what I think of their quality. I'm only making sabatons out of mine so any riveted is better than the butted maille I have now. ;)
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still cant believe you bought mail bed sheets
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still cant believe you bought mail bed sheets
Because that’s the way I roll bro! ;)
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i think i wouldn't roll, i would lay as flat as possible lol
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I messaged them on ebay to make sure that website is legit and I can purchase through the website. That would be ridiculous for an aventail...
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Allbeststuff is legit, my friend Elliot and Frater Rogerson on the DoK group got that maille, it's a bit heavier than typical stuff but it's rather decent quality for a good price. I'd have it too if I had known about it before my purchases too cause it's round riveted with solid punched rings which is period for crusaders and most of Europe all into 1350.
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still cant believe you bought mail bed sheets
Because that’s the way I roll bro! ;)
You never know if ring-wraiths are coming for you.
What if they had maille Snuggies?
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Allbeststuff is legit, my friend Elliot and Frater Rogerson on the DoK group got that maille, it's a bit heavier than typical stuff but it's rather decent quality for a good price. I'd have it too if I had known about it before my purchases too cause it's round riveted with solid punched rings which is period for crusaders and most of Europe all into 1350.
Did they use Ebay or the website?
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Maille Snuggies. I should make a list of things that would be cool as maille. Like shirts.... Wait that already exists.
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It seems like the website IS theirs...here is the response I got...
Dear x_emrys_x,
Hello Sir
That surely is my website.
I understand the concern and the reason is I have range of over 1500 products in chain mail, plate armor & others & everything is not sync everywhere. Honestly I do not spend much time in maintaining my website or ebay as these are retail outlets and my prime business is in bulk orders.
You can buy from anywhere per your convenience. On ebay my standard size aventail will cost USD 70.
Measurements are: top circumference: 18 inches, height: 9 inches, bottom circumference: 34 inches.
Best regards
Nitin
- all_beststuff
Do those measurements add up to a proper aventail that can be attached to a bascinet fit for me (my head circumference is 24.5 inches) or am I going to be frustrated when I get it in the mail?
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Depends on the helmet style.
If your head is 24.5" circumference, your helmet will be larger. Some styles of helmet taper down towards the neck, so it will be a smaller circumference. Whether or not it will fit depends on what the circumference of the helmet is where you plan to attach the aventail.
As a general guess, I'm going to say it won't. I'm a bit over 17" at the neck, so that means I'd have to wear that aventail as a necklace. :)
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I am going to talk to my armorer to see how wide the aventail needs to be at the top and see if Nitin will modify it to fit my helm...and how much more that is going to cost me...
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But most aventails are sold as perfect concentric circles. You'd still have to build up the face area or tailor it, so it may still work. I have an icefalcon aventail and it's huge, but it certainly needed tailoring and additional maille built up to create the part that covers the chin and cheeks. There's no aventail that you can just buy and have it fit like a 14th century aventail without tailoring and adding rings to the facial opening.
But at 18'' at the top opening circumference.... that won't even fit over anyone's head, so either those measurements are wrong, or he's misusing the word circumference... or it's just really tiny...
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At 9" high I had figured trimming down near the face, but I forgot how tall he is.
I agree, 18" top opening sounds very small.
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Hello Sir,
Apologies for the typo error, I wanted to write diameter. The aventail we discussed has 28 inches top circumference measured from measuring tape.
Bottom circumference is between 64-65 inch. Height is 9-10 inches,
Bets regards
Nitin
Makes more sense...
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That makes a *whole lot* more sense. I'd go for it.
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Yeah I have to convince the wife...she is being fiscally responsible and insists we pay off all our debt before I buy more toys :/
So for this month...my bascinet...next month maybe knee cops and aventail...
This saturday I am cutting out plates for my corrazina and working on that gambeson/arming doublet w000t!
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I already have pics of my swords on Facebook, I'm goiing to take some shots of my up-to-date kit tommorow, an since I don't know how to post pics here (yet), just log onto Facebook and send me a friend request - My full name is Tom Shorette - so pics of my kit/outfit as well as my arsenal can be seen there by you all, which will be a good thing as I'm completing my application tommorow. Would have done sooner, but just got back from vaca in Florida!
Thanks Gents!
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I am Jorge Manuel Acosta on FB, just added you!
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Omg Allbeststuff shipping to were I live in $85!
Thats Crazy, theres no way shipping could cost that much.
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What are you shipping? An aventail is only 20 bucks...but remember india...and mail is heavy!
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Oh there based in India, that explains a lot. I missed that factor. I'm ordering long sleeve mail hauberk. Or was going to. I thought shipping would be 20.
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Oh there based in India, that explains a lot. I missed that factor. I'm ordering long sleeve mail hauberk. Or was going to. I thought shipping would be 20.
almost all production maille on the planet comes from India with few exceptions. It all just depends on where it's located when you actually buy it that will determine how much the shipping is. :)
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Oh there based in India, that explains a lot. I missed that factor. I'm ordering long sleeve mail hauberk. Or was going to. I thought shipping would be 20.
almost all production maille on the planet comes from India with few exceptions. It all just depends on where it's located when you actually buy it that will determine how much the shipping is. :)
^ This!
A few years back I bought a couple things, hauberk and chausses or something like that. Came to me from, I believe IceFalcon, here in the US. The post office guy, nice guy, brought the box to the door. It was shipped flat rate, large box. He said "If it fits it ships is a slogan - not a challenge!" :)
I think the box was ~50 pounds of mail.
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Nice, I'll have use postal service next time I'm ordering.
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Just had a hot idea....I seen a chainmail BRA for sale on Ebay and hooooo boy, the model who was wearing it....That was a LOT of rings, brothers!!!
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Just had a hot idea....I seen a chainmail BRA for sale on Ebay and hooooo boy, the model who was wearing it....That was a LOT of rings, brothers!!!
Im sure it's not too defensive.
I jus had a thought of a foot soldier, who could afford some maille, and had the black smith make him to put over his chest, so his heart would be safe from arrows.