ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Sir Douglas on 2013-09-23, 00:51:47
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Does anybody know of any books or sites, or have any information pertaining to general medieval and/or knightly etiquette? Not rules of chivalry, but really basic social things like which is the proper knee to drop to the ground when kneeling (if there is one), and how to bow properly. How does a knight properly address other knights? Not just verbally, but physically. Is a slight bow appropriate? A wave or salute? Or no gesture at all? What about when addressing people of a lower social standing? People of a higher social standing? Foreign monarchs? Just "everyday" situations like that.
A question like this came up today and I realized I really have no idea about proper etiquette for the Middle Ages. I know about the "fingers of courtesy" when eating, and that handshakes were usually done by grasping the wrist instead of the hand, but is there any other information out there?
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hmmm.... I'm sure some sort of primary sources on etiquette have got to exist. Now I'm intrigued.
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How's burping at the table for starters??? ;D
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Have you watched going medieval? Which area of the world at which time is also good to be known, cause even today etiquette in the Bay Area is not the etiquette of Appalachia.
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Not sure on any books, but curious too. I've always heard that the shaking hands on the forearm was not about courtesy, but about checking to make sure the other person doesn't have a dagger hidden in their sleeve.
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Have you watched going medieval? Which area of the world at which time is also good to be known, cause even today etiquette in the Bay Area is not the etiquette of Appalachia.
I'll have to watch Going Medieval again. I tend to forget things I'm not specifically looking for at the moment. But hey...any excuse to watch a Mike Loades documentary. ;) I'll have to check out Terry Jones' Medieval Lives again, too. Didn't think about that one.
I suppose 13th century is what would be most useful for me, since that's the period I portray. But if anything exists for other medieval periods as well, I wouldn't say no to them. Location's a little harder to narrow down since, like you said, one area of the same region might have different practices than another. In general, western-ish European. England, France, Germany/HRE...I'm mostly curious if the medievals even left us any kind of record on that kind of thing, so I'm not too concerned with a specific area yet.
Not sure on any books, but curious too. I've always heard that the shaking hands on the forearm was not about courtesy, but about checking to make sure the other person doesn't have a dagger hidden in their sleeve.
That's what I always thought, too. I guess I just kind of assumed it evolved into a regular custom.
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While it's outside your area this "might" have something:
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/text/history.htm (http://www.hurstwic.org/history/text/history.htm)
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That looks like it's an excellent reference pretty much all-around. Definitely bookmarked for future reference!
If anyone else is interested, the section on "Honor, Dueling, and Drengskapr" seems to have the most information pertaining to this topic. :)
Picked up The Time Traveler's Guide to Medieval England (http://www.amazon.com/Time-Travelers-Guide-Medieval-England/dp/1439112908/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379992630&sr=8-1&keywords=time+traveler%27s+guide+to+medieval+england) at Half Priced Books. Also a bit out of my area as it deals exclusively with 14th century England, but it looks like it has some pretty good stuff in it. The section on manners is only about four pages, but I found this interesting:
When you enter your host's chamber, if the man or woman is of an equal status, you will bow. If they are of higher status, you will kneel at least once (one knee, the right, all the way to the ground).
It also says to never turn your back on a social superior, and not to avert your eyes from anyone socially equal or higher, apparently the opposite of what's done in later centuries.
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That looks like it's an excellent reference pretty much all-around. Definitely bookmarked for future reference!
If anyone else is interested, the section on "Honor, Dueling, and Drengskapr" seems to have the most information pertaining to this topic. :)
Picked up The Time Traveler's Guide to Medieval England (http://www.amazon.com/Time-Travelers-Guide-Medieval-England/dp/1439112908/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379992630&sr=8-1&keywords=time+traveler%27s+guide+to+medieval+england) at Half Priced Books. Also a bit out of my area as it deals exclusively with 14th century England, but it looks like it has some pretty good stuff in it. The section on manners is only about four pages, but I found this interesting:
When you enter your host's chamber, if the man or woman is of an equal status, you will bow. If they are of higher status, you will kneel at least once (one knee, the right, all the way to the ground).
It also says to never turn your back on a social superior, and not to avert your eyes from anyone socially equal or higher, apparently the opposite of what's done in later centuries.
Yes the Time Travelers guide would have been my first port of call.
I am sure I have read something on this matter somewhere......
I will have a think and search my library for some more pointers.
G.
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In medieval times there seems to have been an abundance of books written as guides for correct behavior in medieval high society. These were commonly known as the "courtesy books" or "conduct books"
The first better known of it`s type seems to have been written by a courtier in Henry II court, Daniel of Beccles, in the form of a poem called the "Book of the civilized man".
A good google search, using the above key words, should produce a healthy list of books and writings for consideration towards your research.
G.
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It's a shame that there doesn't appear to be a complete English translation of the entire Book of the Civilized Man. The bits that are translated are rather interesting.
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Hello,
There seems to be a number of free or cheap ebooks on Amazon on the topic. This is one.
http://www.amazon.com/Manners-Customs-During-Renaissance-ebook/dp/B0084C5OJI/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1381901470&sr=1-1&keywords=medieval+manners (http://www.amazon.com/Manners-Customs-During-Renaissance-ebook/dp/B0084C5OJI/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1381901470&sr=1-1&keywords=medieval+manners)
Timothy
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Hello,
Here is a second one The Book of the Courtier.
English translation.
http://www.amazon.com/The-book-courtier-ebook/dp/B00BB0N44W/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1381902441&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Book+of+the+Courtier (http://www.amazon.com/The-book-courtier-ebook/dp/B00BB0N44W/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1381902441&sr=1-1&keywords=The+Book+of+the+Courtier)
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Nice finds Timothy. ;)
G.
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That is interesting, I myself will look into this. Thanks for bringing this up. and now I know what to read to know how to act at homecoming dance😉
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I own "The Time Traveler's Guide to Medieval England" myself. It contains quite a bit of information on many different areas of medieval life. I don't think TOO much would have changed from 12th century (my time frame) to 14th century. Definetly a good read!