ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2013-07-05, 17:59:21
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So I was browsing Facebook, and saw this indian maille making company advertising their new wedge riveted round ring maille in a group I am part of.
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q86/s720x720/970595_289370394541996_1926409718_n.jpg)
They even got the overlap correct and it's not big and overly flat like the stuff I am used to seeing. Might be worth looking into actually. It reminds me of my Erik Schmid stuff actually, the rings are a bit bigger though.
Oddly the same guy posted on my DA as well which I just noticed. I am actually considering getting some but not sure how I could, probably need more info on this so far.
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how is that a wedge? looks like a rivet.
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Whats the pricing like?
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I was thinking it was domed myself, but, we'd have to see under it. On numerous discussions and archaeological evidence, the wedge look like rivets where they've been peened on. Part of the mushrooming effect. As I told Sir Ulrich on the book of faces, his kits look promising. I just hope his "super hero V" in his hauberk was because of a custom order, not that is his way of tailoring it.
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Agreed, need to see the bottom. Some look dome, some look like folded wedge crimped with a round-head recess in the pliers. Interested in more info though.
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Well I contacted him on Facebook, had an interesting convo. He said this is a new type of maille they're working on to be more "accurate" and similar in quality to Erik Schmids stuff. I actually think it's made with a round wedge riveting tool, I've wedge riveted some links of my own and it ended up with a round head where the rivet protrudes, theres different types of riveting tools, the ant pincer type tool leads to a more ovoid shaped protruding rivet head. Needless to say they said the stuff isnt ready yet but they're working on a sample which they'll send some more pics of to me when they can.
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He got back with me rather fast here are some more pics that are closer up
(http://imageshack.us/a/img854/6413/7oor.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img600/7477/yfb9.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img203/7903/wmt3.jpg)
Quite frankly I am liking the look of this maille, reminds me of the Erik Schmid examples I saw on myarmoury.com Still need to get some pics of the back but I'll ask him for that.
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could be very promising. I just hope they elect to make the round ring version out of smaller rings. They're pretty huge in the sample. Either that or a slightly thicker gauge.
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The round ring ones are 16 gauge and 8MM as he told me. He said he could make it in 7MM like my coif which would all match. I am quite tempted to get some but their orders say 10 minimum order, so I guess we're going to have to find a vendor to sell this stuff in the USA or stock it at the very least.
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The middle picture might by 8mm, but the top picture looks like the rings are bigger than the middle picture. Maybe my eyes are just playing tricks. Where is this guy located? I bet KoA or Icefalcon would be interested in stocking his stuff in the US if he's overseas. KoA always has this posted :
http://kultofathena.com/craftsman.html (http://kultofathena.com/craftsman.html)
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He's located in India and heres the site to his maille www.romanhandicraft.com (http://www.romanhandicraft.com) I dont think he has it listed yet because it's new, but i'm pretty sure he'll have more info on it later. Would be nice to see this sold on KOA I think I could send that site link to him see if he can, would be a good way to distribute it.
I misread it the top one IS 9MM 16 gauge the middle one is 16 gauge 8MM and the bottom one is again 9mm 16 gauge.
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He's not NEW Sir Ulrich. I ordered my blackened maille from him for my new kit. He was under another company name then but the product is the same. I'll post pics.
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The round ring looks thick in width and small in the inner diameter, and there are a couple of things that can do that. I'm thinking that round ring one may also be the zoom magnifying it, making it appear a thicker gauge. Another option is it all depends on how he hits it with his hammer on the anvil. If they are 16g 8mm, they're the same as mine and look it too with some of mine that I squish bit time. Unfortunately I can't seem to log into my flickr, but as soon as I can, I'll post up some of my pics, including not pretty ones I didn't share yet, to have for comparison.
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Yeah, I think it was with the inner diameter being 9MM instead of the OUTER one, maybe thats why the rings look big. Personally I prefer smaller ringed maille, I did give the guy Icefalcon's and Kult of Athena's contact info to sell it via them possibly. Also made a post on my armory, but people there were overly critical and half the topic got moderated and his account deleted. Kinda pissed me off honestly, cause we got to ENCOURAGE this guy not discourage him.
Lord Dane I'd like to see those pics of the maille if you got them.
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Yeah, I'm very sorry that happened on MyArmoury. I tried to jump in and help people to encourage him, but any time anyone posts about maille on MyArmoury, a certain guy almost always jumps in and immediately starts disparaging everything and saying how it's all junk because it's not exactly like the historical stuff, blah blah blah, and it usually ends like it did there.
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That's disappointing...its gotten to the point that I don't bother posting on there. They're so quick to shoot down something that doesn't fall directly in line with their established thought, right or wrong.
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Oh I didn't even realize until I re-read your comments that it got super MyArmoury moderated. Those guys are out of control. Way to stifle a new potential product....
For those that didn't see the thread, and since all the pertinent posts have been MyArmouryed (yes, that's a verb now), basically Shawn went on there to let people know about this new maille product being worked on. The manufacturer of the new style of maille also came on there to talk about it. Then Dan Howard, God's gift to the knowledge of all things maille comes on and basically says it's the same Indian crap that's been out there forever, and it's basically worthless, and then attacks the manufacturer because the name of his store is 'Roman Handicrafts' and starts talking about how inaccurate all of his stuff is with respect to surviving roman lorica hamata etc...
At that point I posted and just said something to the effect of "Any improvement on the current product is good in my book! We should be encouraging change in the marketplace and this is a total step in the right direction, let's keep the criticism constructive" At that point a couple others chimed in, and it seemed like the thread was changing course and actually becoming encouraging, then MyA moderators got involved and removed everything, gutted the thread, and killed it... and with it, probably some of the confidence of the manufacturer who was putting his new product out there, and received a bunch of hot air instead of constructive criticism.
The experience re-affirmed to me why I no longer donate to MyArmoury.com. It's such a shame, because it's got some of the absolute best information available on the web, some of the best discussion, but some people on there just have to be the 'authority' on certain topics and blast anyone who doesn't agree....
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Get the dude to hit up the Armour Archive?
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Yeah I saw that Ian, just annoys me how so many people are SOOO hard to satisfy, modern plate isnt even 100% accurate as the metals used are not forged with charcoal and are the same thickness everywhere, how anal are they about it seriously. At least this new maille has the right overlap and ring shape which is good enough for me.
He emailed Erik D Schmid about his maille and whatnot, not sure how they're gonna respond but he did message KOA about selling his stuff which is a good thing. So if KOA stocks it I may get a hauberk of it.
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I would be interested in a haubergeon. I've been looking to replace mine with wedge-riveted instead of the pin-riveted maille I have. After I got my wedge-riveted aventail I realized how much nicer it is than the pin-riveted stuff. It just glides on clothing and skin instead of catching every little thread.
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Well I just got an email from Erik Schmid himself
Hello Shawn,
I noticed your post on myArmoury about this new mail being made in India. Do not be fooled. The links he is showing were made quite some time ago with my tools for another company. His website also has pictures of SN Exports products. Be cautious.
Cheers,
Erik
Rather disappointing but thankfully this happened before I payed for anything so I am rather glad I didnt spend a penny on this.
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Huh. That's disappointing- SN Exports I'm somewhat familiar with having come across their site some time back when researching maille options. Still...I'd like to see some exemplars from this new guy...if he can come close, that's still a step in the right direction.
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Does Erik think SNExports is a waste of money or their maille is cheaply made??
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As I've mentioned to Shawn privately, I'm glad Erik warned Shawn about this. I also found it rather amusing that the guy on MyArmoury who was blasting the photos as garbage and praising Erik's stuff was unknowingly calling Erik's own work the same Indian stuff already on the market...
I will give the moderators of MyArmoury the benefit of the doubt and assume Erik contacted them as well, and that's why the thread was gutted.
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Huh, so in this case maybe there was more going on than what we saw.
I've always had mixed feelings about the moderating there. Sometimes you have to moderate with a heavy hand to keep things on track (particularly when you have uncooperative users), but they have a habit of stepping in when people raise legitimate concerns or ask completely understandable questions. I'd rather cultivate an atmosphere of friendliness and helpfulness, than putting accuracy and scholarly approach above all else.
I haven't even logged in over there in quite some time now, unfortunately.
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Truly I do not interact that much over on that forum either basically because of the entire 'holier than thou' mentality. Education begins with questions and as the old adage goes: ‘The only stupid question is the one unasked!’ – Although some individuals SERIOUSLY skirt the raggedy edge of that axiom! ;)
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Truly I do not interact that much over on that forum either basically because of the entire 'holier than thou' mentality. Education begins with questions and as the old adage goes: ‘The only stupid question is the one unasked!’ – Although some individuals SERIOUSLY skirt the raggedy edge of that axiom! ;)
Because this is so true Sir Brian ... the only answer one can expect in response must be one of the following tones:
1.) Serious (for those taking the question as such on its merit in genuine interest)
2.) Sensitive (for those less knowledgeable without meaning to offend or seem condescending)
3.) Sarcastic (for those who already know the answer but need to be taught a lesson in humility)
4.) Senseless (for those who really can't answer the question due to a state of stupid)
LOL :P
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I only troll the classifieds section - some of the higher end swords I've had pass thru my hands have been because of that one board. Plus I just like to look at the pretties even if I can't afford them. Not to mention the wealth of knowledge contained therein- I avoid the forums and stick with the reviews and classifieds. Can't recall the last time I actually logged in.
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I haven't even logged in over there in quite some time now, unfortunately.
I only troll the classifieds section
I do the same as Sir William. Log in, classifieds, log out. Or I'll check the 'kits and harnesses' thread if I have a new post notification. In rare instances I might read a few non-classified posts, but I don't think I've posted anything there this year.
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I can't even recall the last time I posted in MyA (if at all, none come to mind). It is sort of like SFI in that regard...due to some insane backlash over I can't even remember anymore, but that place is pretty much the same.