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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2012-05-29, 23:41:18
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http://www.revivalclothing.com/10th-11thcearlymedievalvikingtunic-1.aspx (http://www.revivalclothing.com/10th-11thcearlymedievalvikingtunic-1.aspx)
I been looking around for a tunic for the 1200s thats more versatile and can be used in the earlier period as well. Not really interested in doing the 1300-1500s much so I am looking for an earlier period tunic. The one from historical enterprises comes in a one size fits all which I refuse to buy it would be way too... big and bulky which I dont want, plus it don't come in black.
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dude, you need to stop buying in black. it maybe your color, but as a poorer knight, you wouldn't have been able to afford black. and black in period is not modern day black. :) it's hotter and when do you mainly wear it? in the summer months? HOTNESS hehehe.
other than that a 4 gored tunic is good for 1200s. a keyhole neck is not really good though. you want a round neck hole. keyholes are too early i think for 1200s.
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It may be off topic, but Sir Wolf, what would the difference between historical black colouration and modern black colouration be?
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Thing is I am trying to be as period as possible WITH using my own colors (black with red trim). I don't like bright flashy colors as I am a goth and tend to dress in mostly black and occasionally grey. Plus it looks better on me. People told me I look good in green but I personally don't like it cause it makes me look like a hippie and I dont look "dark" in it. I already have an undershirt but it's white and I think I look terrible in white. The heat I can deal with though I go out in a trenchcoat even in the summer to protect myself from the sun rather than slap on sunscreen which is absolutely disgusting and sticky. I WAS hot at the faire in my blackened maille and gambeson but the heat didnt bug me nearly as much as the weight did. Besides if I wear a templar or teutonic surcoat over it all I would be pretty much fine.
If you really wanted to get technical I would of LOVED a black tunic with a red trim around the ends and whatnot that would look awesome, but I dont know any place that sells tunics like that or if they even existed at that time.
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http://www.linengarb.com/ (http://www.linengarb.com/)
Try the above & they list period dye colors too. They also do requests. I have a pair of their rus pants & love them.
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It may be off topic, but Sir Wolf, what would the difference between historical black colouration and modern black colouration be?
There's a lot of debate around that. My understanding is that it was sort of a dark brown-black rather than a "pure" black in modern terms. Sort of like "natural white" vs modern bright whites.
Period authors tried to separate colors of the commoners and the wealthy, and assigned black to the wealthy side. However it was also used by monastic orders and the like, which implies it could be done cheaply.
One argument is that it wasn't colorfast, and would require frequent re-dying, but would also erode the fabric and wear it out quickly, thus making it expensive. But there were multiple ways of creating most colors, some more expensive than others. And it's likely that a commoner with black-dyed clothing would fade quickly into a sort of brownish grey (I'm assuming).
I thought this was interesting: http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/139/177/ (http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/139/177/)
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There's a lot of debate around that. My understanding is that it was sort of a dark brown-black rather than a "pure" black in modern terms. Sort of like "natural white" vs modern bright whites.
Period authors tried to separate colors of the commoners and the wealthy, and assigned black to the wealthy side. However it was also used by monastic orders and the like, which implies it could be done cheaply.
One argument is that it wasn't colorfast, and would require frequent re-dying, but would also erode the fabric and wear it out quickly, thus making it expensive. But there were multiple ways of creating most colors, some more expensive than others. And it's likely that a commoner with black-dyed clothing would fade quickly into a sort of brownish grey (I'm assuming).
I thought this was interesting: http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/139/177/ (http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/139/177/)
That is interesting indeed. One must take into consideration that dyes were a trading product that was sold for colors dyes on clothing for the nobility since they can afford it.
Thing is I am trying to be as period as possible WITH using my own colors (black with red trim). I don't like bright flashy colors as I am a goth and tend to dress in mostly black and occasionally grey. Plus it looks better on me. People told me I look good in green but I personally don't like it cause it makes me look like a hippie and I dont look "dark" in it. I already have an undershirt but it's white and I think I look terrible in white. The heat I can deal with though I go out in a trenchcoat even in the summer to protect myself from the sun rather than slap on sunscreen which is absolutely disgusting and sticky. I WAS hot at the faire in my blackened maille and gambeson but the heat didnt bug me nearly as much as the weight did. Besides if I wear a templar or teutonic surcoat over it all I would be pretty much fine.
If you really wanted to get technical I would of LOVED a black tunic with a red trim around the ends and whatnot that would look awesome, but I dont know any place that sells tunics like that or if they even existed at that time.
A heat survivor? Impressive, I admit I am also a heat survivor since I have been in areas where humidity lasts throughout the day even though when I was young, I didn't do well at all. But another thing to avoid is wool in the summer.
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What Rautt said...go to linengarb. Granted, most of their stuff is pre-1200 by at least a century, but their garments are of good material and built to last. You say you don't like bright colors yet red is the most eye-catching color in the spectrum. ;)
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But another thing to avoid is wool in the summer.
My wool chausses were the most comfortable part of my base layer at the Tampa Ren Faire this year. Wool breathes quite well and wicks moisture. That's why good quality socks are made from wool and not cotton. I would amend the comment to say avoid 'heavy' wool in the summer. But most outer-garments were wool in period, linen is primarily for undergarments.
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http://www.linengarb.com/all/linen-tunic.html (http://www.linengarb.com/all/linen-tunic.html) this with no trim would do you well. rounded neck.
trim around cuff, neck and hems are all to early for you in the 1200s. that is reproduction wise.
ya i have seen black made from iron and vinegar i think and have seen black for clothing in 15thc illustrations, but have constantly read the texts about even black sheep do not give what we today think of as black. its much grayer/dark brown. but as Sir Edward said, the hospitatlers wore black, but how black is black;) ehhehe. paintings of knights are always in the best of colors but can you give me a black surcoated one? or a tunic in black?
oh I agree Sir Ian, I wear wool all the time, I just remember Sir Ulrich saying as the day went on his mail was getting heavier. I was wondering if the heat had some reaction in there as well.
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My wool chausses were the most comfortable part of my base layer at the Tampa Ren Faire this year. Wool breathes quite well and wicks moisture. That's why good quality socks are made from wool and not cotton. I would amend the comment to say avoid 'heavy' wool in the summer. But most outer-garments were wool in period, linen is primarily for undergarments.
Ah now I understand thank you Sir Ian for the clarification.
ya i have seen black made from iron and vinegar i think and have seen black for clothing in 15thc illustrations, but have constantly read the texts about even black sheep do not give what we today think of as black. its much grayer/dark brown. but as Sir Edward said, the hospitatlers wore black, but how black is black;) ehhehe. paintings of knights are always in the best of colors but can you give me a black surcoated one? or a tunic in black?
oh I agree Sir Ian, I wear wool all the time, I just remember Sir Ulrich saying as the day went on his mail was getting heavier. I was wondering if the heat had some reaction in there as well.
Yep, I agree, black as we see it today would be different than from the black of that time era.
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It would also depend on how new the garment was...we have the pleasure of colorfast clothing so that it doesn't run when you wash it. Well, if your garment is colorfast...but back then? Dyes ran all the time, there was no real way to keep it so what might've started out as a deep, dark, dark brown ended up a light brownish grey after just a few instances of being caught in wet weather for an extended period of time.
Whatever the case may be, I'd go with the linengarb tunic in black- and keep in mind black will take heat more than any other color so if you have issues with heat in general, it may not be the way to go. But you want black so I think you should have it- eventually you'll to invest in a custom surcoat I think, if only because then you could have it coordinated with your arms.