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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Ian on 2012-04-13, 23:27:40
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Can anyone point me to a decent pattern for a late 14th century heraldic surcoat that side-laces?
Here's an image of David Teague wearing his, and that's what I'm after reproducing (the blue surcoat):
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f74/HRG2006/3%20Barons%20Fair%202009/Harnessfightingdemo.jpg)
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Here!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51W00egucJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Period-Patterns-Medieval-Military-Garments/dp/B00188UGDE/ref=pd_sim_ac_1 (http://www.amazon.com/Period-Patterns-Medieval-Military-Garments/dp/B00188UGDE/ref=pd_sim_ac_1)
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Thank you sir!
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Are you going to make one yourself or is it for a tailor? I can give you the contact info of the seamstress who made mine:
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/jba3/medieval/armor/surcoats/th_2011-12-21193133.jpg) (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/jba3/medieval/armor/surcoats/2011-12-21193133.jpg)
(same one I'm wearing in my avatar)
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My wife will be making it
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I have a red one; think they're called jupons at some point, that's what mine is. Dagged front in the castle style, or whatever you call it; I got mine from the Morgana Collection, an ebaY retailer who makes all of the gear he sells. Or so he says. lol Good, sturdy stuff though.
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My wife will be making it
In that case, I second the link Rauttskegg posted - assuming you post pics when it's done. :)
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So, we decided to wing it on the pattern. We bought linen and I stood there in gambeson / maille / breastplate to get the proportions right.
I decided to go with felt for the charges and we'll sew them to the base garment. We may add some detailing to the charges using sewn on black thread, but we'll see. Aside from sewing on the devices, we need to add lacing eyelets on the side to give it the form fitted look of the late 14th century. Since there were no such thing as metal eyelets / grommets like a modern garment would use for lacing, I'm undecided if I want to try and do this the hand-stitched way, which is a giant pain in the butt, or just use metal eyelets. But this is where we're at so far:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/535072_3902349354817_1161690734_33732477_754337132_n.jpg)
Hahaha, and I realize now that I laid the crossed swords on upside down... good thing my wife didn't sew them on yet! :)
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haahhahha awesome
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It's looking fantastic! Yes, definitely correct the orientation and then sew it together. :)
Personally I'd just go with the metal grommets. It won't be that visible... but then, I have a higher tolerance for cheating than a lot of other folks do. Another option is to do a hybrid, and hand-stitch thread over the grommets to hide them. It doesn't save much work, but it does make a nice strong hole.
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I had the largest metal eyelets on my surcoat and they were a PITA. They kept coming apart so I had the seamstress that originally made it stitch around the holes so they are like super-sized button holes and it not only looks more period but is holding up very well. You can just make them out in the attached picture which I also tried to highlight and enlarge. Hope it helps! :)
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Very nice Surcoat Sir Ian! I like it!
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Looking good Sir Ian.
I would definitely sew around the brass lace holes to cover them up.
G.
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Nicely done, kudos to your wife, Sir Ian.
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Nicely done, kudos to your wife, Sir Ian.
Indeed :D
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Very nice! It's funny, I've been kicking around doing appliques in felt for my surcoat, but wasn't sure about the "periodness" of it. Since your stuff is always spot on, looks like I need to grab some felt!
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Thank you, but be forewarned, I cannot vouch for the accuracy of appliqued felt. I'm really just guessing. It was that or paint, and I didn't want to ruin my wife's efforts with a bad paint job by me. I know felted wool was around, however, it's use on heraldic surcoats is purely a guess on my part.
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Silk appliques are period, but I have no idea about felt. (with the usual caveat that silk was super-expensive at the time)
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i have a feeling if they were not silk they were wool. linen color tends to run when wet and unravel when sewn. Felt would have meant wool felt. cotton would not have been used in Europe yet. I believe it was found in the Med. area as curtains.
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Silk appliques are period, but I have no idea about felt. (with the usual caveat that silk was super-expensive at the time)
And like linen not always colorfast! ;)
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I think wool or silk would be more period accurate but then again, linen is the caveat when it comes to historical garments.
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I keep going back to the idea that the surcoats were made of silk as well, but can't remember where I read that.
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Silk, wool, and linen are all appropriate. The problem with silk is it's less durable, and was ridiculously expensive. An entire surcoat entirely made of it would have been more expensive than the armor in all likelihood (perhaps considerably so). Only a very wealthy knight would do that. Smaller appliques would be more affordable, but still expensive.
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Ok...that makes sense to me...I'm definitely not a wealthy knight. Not in persona or in real. LOL
But not leather, right?
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Right, I don't think there's much evidence of leather being used for surcoats.
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Leather surcoates :o No way, I say go with linen or wool for a surcoat.
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If anything, spare yourself the heat. Do not wear a leather surcoat!
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If anything, spare yourself the heat. Do not wear a leather surcoat!
Indeed!
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Awwww!!! They look really cool, but probably aren't. lol
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/RavenswoodKnightlySurcoat.jpg)
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Awwww!!! They look really cool, but probably aren't. lol
NOOOOOOOO! RUN AWAY SIR WILLIAM! ;)
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I'm not, I'm not...I'm no period snob but I'm not interested in straying too far away either. lol
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I'm not, I'm not...I'm no period snob but I'm not interested in straying too far away either. lol
whew!