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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Ian on 2012-03-10, 00:46:59
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So... It is with mixed feelings that I received my first Albion yesterday. Don't get me wrong, the sword is a piece of artwork, and lives up to the Albion reputation, it's just not quite what I ordered. I ordered, and was charged for antiquing on the hilt furniture, and this is also reflected in the invoice I received with the sword. The sword I unboxed yesterday though, has polished hilt furniture. I called Albion a couple times yesterday but kept getting the voicemail. I also sent them an email yesterday with the photo of the sword, but I haven't heard back yet. I'm a little disappointed, because as you can see in the bottom photo, imho the antiqued guard and pommel adds a unique character to the sword and looks awfully sexy with the oxblood grip, not to mention I waited 6 months for this sword :). I'm more than willing to forego the whole shipping stuff back and forth process and keep this sword. My fear is just that they may have sent out 2 Crecy's, one with and one without antiqued furniture and they got mixed up in the boxing process, so I'm afraid to do anything with the sword until I hear back from them so that it remains in 'as new' condition. Was hoping to get a hold of them prior to the weekend for this reason, but oh well!
This is what I received:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7184/6968114155_8cd3637076_b.jpg)
This image is from the Albion Europe site and represents what I ordered:
(http://www.albion-europe.com/imageroot/swords/Next%20Generation/Medieval%20Hand-and-half/Crecy/NG-CRE-OX-BLU-GRP.jpg?rand=468534542)
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From what I understand, Albion is usually pretty good about making things right. Odd that they didn't answer the phone, for sure, but my experience is that they sometimes take a couple of days to reply to emails.
I guess there are a few options. They could refund the charge for the antiquing, so you can keep it as-is, or send it back and wait for them to complete another one (or antique this one, but I'm not sure if it's something they can do after assembly).
Mistakes happen, especially when ordering something a little out of the ordinary. Hopefully you'll hear back from them soon!
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ya its cool but not what you ordered. they should make it right :)
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Definitely liking the dark hardware. If you want you can send me the sword and I will antique it for you for free. I just need 75 years. I know how you feel. I put a partial payment on a full harness and supplied pics and we came to an agreement. And 8 months later got a cuirass nothing like what I wanted. Wrong style. No tassets. No rear fauld. And looked like an apprentice made it not the 20 year experience armorer. Sent it back but it took nearly a year for a refund. The wait time is killer when the received product is not what is expected. I hope you can get things resolved.
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Sweet blade, the one I want to own...eventually. Sorry they didn't get the hilt furniture right, but as Sir Edward has affirmed, I'm sure they will make it right. Still, YOU HAVE AN ALBION CRECY! :)
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Well, if you really don't like it, I'd be happy to hang onto it for you ;)
But to the point, Albion should make it right. I'm sure they will, they've got a good rep, even among the bazzillion whistleblowers on myArmoury....
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Don't get me wrong, I love the sword! I was just a little disappointed when I opened the box and didn't see what I paid for. I may try to convince them to let me apply the money for the antiquing on this sword in to the down payment on a new order, hmmm what to get next....
Christian Fletcher is doing the scabbard for the Crecy. He started it in January but recently came down with some serious inner ear trouble and has stopped working on all his commissions for the time being. I'll put up the progress photos though so you can see what he got done before he had to stop.
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Here are the scabbard progress shots:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7176/6826407796_9525d899ec_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7187/6972523863_af52ce4a11_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7189/6972523901_783cee844c_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7208/6972523941_d462e31faf_z.jpg)
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Hey, that's looking great! So he's working on the scabbard without the sword? Is he doing "swordless" orders now? Last I had worked with him, I think he still required the sword to be sent to him.
I've done it two different ways with him. One was to ship the sword to him. The other was to order the sword through him, so I received the sword and scabbard together when it was completed. This latter option allowed for hilt customization (all I had him do differently than Albion's stock design was to add some risers in the grip).
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Hey, that's looking great! So he's working on the scabbard without the sword? Is he doing "swordless" orders now? Last I had worked with him, I think he still required the sword to be sent to him.
I've done it two different ways with him. One was to ship the sword to him. The other was to order the sword through him, so I received the sword and scabbard together when it was completed. This latter option allowed for hilt customization (all I had him do differently than Albion's stock design was to add some risers in the grip).
Yes, he does swordless scabbards now for certain Albion models. He's also very easy to work with and communication is ultra-fast.
If you scroll to the bottom of this page you'll see all the models listed that he can now do swordless:
http://www.christianfletcher.com/Christian_Fletcher/Scabbards.html (http://www.christianfletcher.com/Christian_Fletcher/Scabbards.html)
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Good to know for when I eventually purchase my Crecy! :)
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Excellent, he's got a pretty good selection. I still have two Albions that need scabbards, and I could do them as swordless orders through either DBK or CF, since they're on both lists. Nice.
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That scabbard is coming along nicely.
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So I got a reply back from Albion today. Turns out there were 4 Crecys shipped out on the same day, so they think it was just a mix-up in the boxing of the swords. He hasn't heard from anyone yet who received an antiqued version that they didn't order yet so hopefully if that's the case they speak up. If not, I'd like to just apply the money to a future order or something like that.
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A CF scabbard for an Albion...its looking great; but I'm with you, as nice as the Crecy is, much rather have it the way you paid for it. Probably a shipping snafu, one they should look to remedy ASAP. It is what I'd expect from Albion as their CS has always been stellar; no less.
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Thats nice! I want to get an Albion with the aged finish? Any links to where you got it? Now I see why everyone goes after Albions... Better than my current sword which looks bland compared to it.
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Thats nice! I want to get an Albion with the aged finish? Any links to where you got it? Now I see why everyone goes after Albions... Better than my current sword which looks bland compared to it.
I ordered directly from Albion over the phone. You can order through Christian Fletcher as well if you want him to specifically customize your sword, or you can obsessively check KoA like I do and see if they ever get any in stock (but theirs are not customizable). Other than that you're looking at previously owned Albions. People really go for Albions for the feel and construction as well though, not just looks. Albion gets this right unlike a lot of other makers. Less expensive swords usually feel overbuilt or dead in the hand because of things like having no distal taper or the subtle geometry a historic sword would have had. This being my first Albion, it did not disappoint. I'm sure all the other guys here can attest to the quality of an Albion.
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Oh heck yeah. I'm a total Albion snob now. Between them and A&A, I'd have a hard time convincing myself to get a sword from anyone else now. It's funny, just about 5 or so years ago, I was saying I couldn't bring myself to spend $800+ on a sword. Now, it's the other way around.
There are other ways to get very good swords as well, including the custom sword makers out there, as well as getting a Christian Fletcher sword with an Angus Trim blade. But to me, Albion is pretty much the top maker of production line swords.
Albion's sword designs are based on careful study of museum originals. Except of course their Museum Line, all of their swords are their own design, but are meant to be representative examples of those types of swords from history, with an eye toward the modern market. That is, there were some really awful swords made back in the day as well as very good ones, so they're replicating the better characteristics from better examples.
They capture the proper internal structure, as well as blade geometry with all its subtleties like distal taper, cross section, fuller thickness, point thickness, etc. This means they feel good in the hand, move well, and cut well. The one thing where they "cheat" a little in the final product is that they harden the blade a little more than was typical back in the day.
While they use modern construction methods (most notably a CNC machine to mill out the blanks, as well as hot-peening with a blowtorch), it's in the spirit of historical construction. Period steel wasn't nearly as good, and had to be worked and folded to get the right carbon distribution. They can skip this step since modern steel is already correct. From there, the blanks were ground into blades historically, so the fact that they grind theirs with large belt grinders is actually not far off from what our ancestors did.
Check out this video done by "How it's Made" on the Discovery channel, filmed at Albion:
How It's Made Swords (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru-0GwYGUzY#)
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I feel that if I say anything else about Albion craftsmanship to Ulrich, I will truly be beating a long-expired mount. Suffice it to say, they are as attractive as they are functional- and Albion is one of two smithing operations that can lay claim to that, not counting custom smiths like John Lundemo, Jake Powning, Patrick Barta and their like. The other being, imho, Arms & Armor.
I have always like the Crecy's clean and simple lines...I've gone away from longswords for a while now but if I ever get back 'into' them, definitely will pick up a Crecy at some point.
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The Crecy really has a lot going for it. It's one of their more affordable longswords, for one thing. It's also a very good "jack of all trades, master of none". It performs well in the cut and the thrust, but isn't completely optimized for either. It's not too big, not too small. A very "middle of the road" sword, and very controllable.
One of these days I'll get a scabbard for mine. But I think I'll do the Talhoffer next. :)
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I keep saying my next commission will be a full-on custom, thinking Lundemo. Not sure yet if I want a singlehander or a longsword. Suppose I should go w/a longsword since the one I did have, I let go sometime last year in a trade for a katana.
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That's a neat video, thanks for posting that Ed.
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Christian is back at work on the scabbard! Here's a couple new shots! Looks like it's about done.
Freshly dyed:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7037/6839851392_73271b5a1c_z.jpg)
Belt added (I elected to go with a two-point suspension because it's plausible for late 14th century and I don't have a plaque belt to hang a locket/hook style suspension from). Well, that and no one seems to actually know what type of suspension was in use at the time.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7047/6839851430_617042897c_z.jpg)
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Looking good!
Yeah, there's a bunch of art showing the two-pronged tie sort of belts in the 12th and 13th, and we know about complex suspensions in the 15th and 16th.. but you're right, I don't think I've seen much about the 14th.
I'm thinking about going with a similar suspension on my next one. I want to get the Talhoffer into a scabbard so I can use that one with 15th century gear.
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That's a beauty! :)
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I see Mr. Fletcher is up to his usual high standards...that's a great looking scabbard.
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That's his "Seneschal" suspension, right? It looks like it's almost a 3-point suspension, in that it has 3 vertical straps connection in two places. I wish he'd show pictures of both sides so I could see how it attaches.
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Huh, didn't catch that when I first looked at it. Funny how the mind works- what I saw was the two-strap suspension a la the VA/Atrim offerings for their Signature line. Looks fairly standard though...you loop the 'holder' belt around the waist belt and the two ends attach to the buckled straps on the scabbard. If you look closely, you can see how it just wraps around the belt. Or did I misunderstand you, Sir Edward?
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There are a lot of 3-point suspensions that have the belt "tail" buckle down as the third point after passing through the main buckle at the front, but as a third separate attachment point to the scabbard itself. Here, it looks the belt tail and one of the other suspension straps attach to the same point on the scabbard, and yet it looks like the normal scabbard "knot", so I'm just wondering how it was tied together there. :)
I like it a lot, I'm thinking of going with the same one for the Talhoffer.
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That's my favorite style. It lets you adjust not only where the sword sits, but the angle it sits at, too. I had a heck of a time at VARF with my double-wrap belt since it doesn't let me adjust the angle and the sword constantly wants to point downward, and the tip hits the ground like that. Nice scabbard, Ian, congratulations.
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That's his "Seneschal" suspension, right? It looks like it's almost a 3-point suspension, in that it has 3 vertical straps connection in two places. I wish he'd show pictures of both sides so I could see how it attaches.
Yessir, that is the seneschal belt. It's what CF recommended when I gave him the time period I was shooting for. It looks very similar to the suspensions shown in the image of the Battle of Poitiers here. The image dates to 1410 even though the battle was in 1356, but if the suspension was common for 1410 I can at least stretch it to plausibly say maybe for the 1380's since so little is known about actual 14th century sword suspension. Hey, what's 30 years between friends? :)
Most of the effigies of the last half of the 14th century just show a longsword magically suspended vertically on a plaque belt. People guess there's a hook suspension attached to a metal throat locket but it's all a guess. There are some effigies that depict a thin sword belt similar to the seneschal belt though and I thought that would be more versatile and more comfortable (and less expensive considering a custom locket and hook would need to be fashioned). I'll get better photos of the actual suspension when it arrives.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/The_battle_of_Poitiers.jpg)
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BTW, how long did Albion take to get your Crecy to you? Just curious what their waiting times are like currently.
The one I have on order is taking quite a long time, but it's also one of the "film swords", which I know are handled differently.
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BTW, how long did Albion take to get your Crecy to you? Just curious what their waiting times are like currently.
The one I have on order is taking quite a long time, but it's also one of the "film swords", which I know are handled differently.
I placed the order on 26 September of last year, so almost a full 6 months. Not sure if they've caught up at all, but I understand they were having issues with a supplier.
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Yep, looks like your Crecy was caught in the same pile up as my Meyer when they were waiting for a delivery of steel.
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Wow, yeah. When I talked to them back in September, they had been delaying the practice blunts because of the lack of steel, but had so far been keeping up on most of the sharps since they had built ahead on the blades.
When I asked a month or two ago, it sounded like they had just gotten some more steel in. So maybe they're only now catching up? Wow.
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I've been emailing back and forth with Mike Sigman on the aging issue. Unfortunately, whoever got my sword must have liked the free antiquing because no one spoke up, so they're just going to credit me back the cost of the upgrade. No hard feelings though, mistakes happen.
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I've been emailing back and forth with Mike Sigman on the aging issue. Unfortunately, whoever got my sword must have liked the free antiquing because no one spoke up, so they're just going to credit me back the cost of the upgrade. No hard feelings though, mistakes happen.
And the gateway to buying multiple Albions has been opened. Huzzah! :D
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The scabbard arrived yesterday late in the afternoon. Here are some photographs I took today of the scabbard with the sword. The scabbard fits like a glove. It's just snug enough to prevent the sword from falling out when held upside down with moderate shaking about, but not too snug to inhibit the draw (this being a sword-less order, it's a bit of a gamble, since CF is building the scabbard to his copy of the Crecy, but it paid off).
Sword in scabbard
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7036/7011902181_80f7aba233_z.jpg)
The hilt, rain flaps, etc..
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7253/7011902399_61bb26aa9d_z.jpg)
Close up of the embossed wolf rampant
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7101/7011902529_fab2f6b5b5_z.jpg)
The two paired side by side
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7224/6865789328_d06cf00701_z.jpg)
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Absolutely beautiful! Congratulations! :)
So what was your total cost for both?
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wow
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Congrats! It looks really good. That's one handsome weapon set you've got there.
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The oxblood and brown look really good together. Enough difference to show the contrast, without being overbearingly different. Congrats.
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Thanks guys! What to add to the kit next...
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Thanks guys! What to add to the kit next...
Or what kit to start next? ;)
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Wow, that is a nice looking blade and scabbard.
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Oh, that's simply gorgeous...forgot how talented CF was. I really love the clean, simple lines of the Crecy. Been wanting one for a while now...think this just about cinches it for me. Unless I can get Lundemo to do me one up for not much more. ;)
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I was finally looking at the Albions. Very nice but very expensive. Ian got a nice one. I might eventually pony up the funds & purchase one. Still shopping. :)
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I was finally looking at the Albions. Very nice but very expensive. Ian got a nice one. I might eventually pony up the funds & purchase one. Still shopping. :)
Hey, we're happy to help you spend your money. :D
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Yep, basically if you want a top notch REAL sword (and not just an SLO or otherwise cheap repro), the two main places to go to here in the states are Albion, and A&A.
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I was finally looking at the Albions. Very nice but very expensive. Ian got a nice one. I might eventually pony up the funds & purchase one. Still shopping. :)
The Albion lineup is probably the most expensive production-based collection you're likely to find...A&A is a close second. It is also going to be the sexiest in terms of fit, finish and overall presentation. They're not just pretties though, they are all designed from the ground up by Peter Johnsson based on extensive research on swords all over the world and they are built as close to historical examples as possible without actually copying. Instead of copies of specific swords (although there are those as well, they cost even more) they made them to fit a specific period or typology (Oakeshott for the post-Viking era blades) so that it would not be out of place on a knight or soldier's belt for that time period.
Your first Albion will make the rest of your collection look and feel cheap and tawdry by comparison. I own two, with a third on the way. I say that the third will be my last but that's not actually true- I still need to acquire a Meyer, then I'll be done. For now, anyways. I still get giddy about swords...but I try to temper that with the realization that any sword that I want that I'd keep is going to cost a lot more than what I used to be willing to pay when I first got started collecting. lol
This is Deus Irae, or Irae for short; my first Albion. I need to take some pics of her out of the scabbard (a DBK).
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/Sword/Irae/SwordoftheEbonPaladin-1.jpg)
That reminds me...Ian, do you have any pics of you in full harness with this sword at your side? I'd like to see how the scabbard hangs with that suspension he rigged up for you.
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Thought I'd separate this part out because it is hard to see at the bottom of my previous post.
"That reminds me...Ian, do you have any pics of you in full harness with this sword at your side? I'd like to see how the scabbard hangs with that suspension he rigged up for you."
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Another thing worthy of note is that Arms & Armor and Albion have had access to original museum pieces, and many of the other sword shops have not. That doesn't make other swords not good swords; it depends on what you're looking for. For a historical sword, A&A and Albion can't be beat.
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Thought I'd separate this part out because it is hard to see at the bottom of my previous post.
"That reminds me...Ian, do you have any pics of you in full harness with this sword at your side? I'd like to see how the scabbard hangs with that suspension he rigged up for you."
I don't. I've been waiting for my new helmet to arrive before taking more photos in harness because I want it to be as close to 'complete' as I can get it for now. You can see the sword belt being worn in my soft kit photo though here:
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,2112.0.html (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,2112.0.html)
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I recall seeing that...seems to hang quite naturally.