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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2012-02-04, 09:22:28
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Considering I got a huge bag of rings I been considering constructing my own riveted maille chausses. Now I know theres a few different designs to them, the tube kind that go over the whole leg and the type that only protect the foot and shin while lacing up at the back. I am very unsure about purchasing them because I got skinny little beanpole legs that WONT fit in off the rack chausses. Any suggestions?
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Well, the good thing about being skinny is that if you bought off the rack, you'd just have to remove material instead of add material. If you don't mind lacing them up, I would think the easiest route is to buy manufactured ones, cut off the excess, and then add laces. If you want to go the fitted route, they don't need to be as fitted as arms would be, but you'd still just have to sew up a seam instead of building an entire tube of riveted maille.
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The nice thing about being skinny, cutting off the excess, and then lacing up the gap is this-- If you do put on some weight later, which most people do after about 10 years, you can relax the lacing and let the gap widen a bit, and not have to do any other resizing.
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Yeah, only place I know where to get it is Icefalon and I don't think they have it in size small. Thats my main issue, i'd have. I saw some at GDFB that were the lace up ones but they dont ship to the USA which is a big deal, though I probably could get my friend in germany to order it for me and ship it here but that would cost a lot for shipping.
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So get a medium and a good set of wire cutters, that would still be easier than buiulding a pair from scratch. It would also probably be less expensive than importing a small from overseas, not to mentioin you'd save about 200 hours in labor building them. All I envision you would need to do is cut a seam down the back of the leg and then remove material equally from both sides until the fit is right for whatever your leg circumference is. Then just add laces.
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How skinny is "skinny"? I have a set of the regular IceFalcon chausses, and they *barely* get over my legs with just a pair of pants on, with no padding. My calves are about 17", and that seems to be about the "limit" of the chausses and they're stretched almost to the limit there.
As Ian said, it's not too hard to cut out some of the excess and then lace them closed, or just rivet up the seam. I prefer bolt cutters for cutting the rings; wire cutters don't seem to do as well, but mine aren't high end wire cutters either.
For shape, chausses seem to require less tailoring than sleeves would. If your calves and thighs and similar in size, you can't tailor at the knees because it has to slide over to get to your thighs still. About the only place you can tailor is towards the ankles/feet, and since it's a relatively small area, it's probably one of the easiest/fastest places to tailor.
I can post pics of my IceFalcon chausses with measurements, if it will help you any.
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I prefer bolt cutters for cutting the rings; wire cutters don't seem to do as well, but mine aren't high end wire cutters either.
Try some straight tin snips or sheet metal snips. They are really inexpensive and do the job phenomenally well when cutting links! ;)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSF-sTYGdIEDi1yqjm3V-YLi4qO68duiTrt9ZXefvSFmUAjtvGEXv5pGuU)
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Well we all know that I of course will reccomend the cheater chausses route. ;)
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I prefer bolt cutters for cutting the rings; wire cutters don't seem to do as well, but mine aren't high end wire cutters either.
Try some straight tin snips or sheet metal snips. They are really inexpensive and do the job phenomenally well when cutting links! ;)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSF-sTYGdIEDi1yqjm3V-YLi4qO68duiTrt9ZXefvSFmUAjtvGEXv5pGuU)
Oops, I thought these were wire cutters / tin snips. That's the ones I have, after a hand full of rings, the nut & bolt that holds the 2 sides together had bent itself, and the jaws were out of alignment and wouldn't cut the rings, just bent them.
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I've always used a set of 9" bolt cutters. They don't always leave the cleanest cut ("v" shaped ends on round wire), but they go right through. With aluminum, the metal is almost too soft to cut well, so I end up clipping 2 or 3 rings at once.
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Ulrich, do you intend on wearing padding underneath? That could mitigate some of the floppiness of off-the-rack chausses, which are likely built as tubes (much like the arms in OTR hauberks and such)...but it'd be a good deal less work-intensive than to build your own set from scratch. However, if you did do that, you'd be the talk of the Faire (and here)! ;)
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Yes I do intend on wearing padding under them if I could find padding that would fit under them. I am considering Jolly Knight's stuff and that stuff is custom fitted so it would probably still be as skinny as my beanpole legs and would prolly pad it a bit but not by much. I was considering getting the chausses but currently trying to save money for a trip so I think making them from scratch would be cheaper. Won't go with butted just because I like my armor to be usable. Maybe I will go Sir Nathans route, I just don't like the idea of being a knight and not having leg protection. Could always go with Schynbalds which I have seen in the Majowski Bible even worn without chausses. Just dont know where to get them cause every place I see sells full greaves but not schynbalds.
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Ulrich, what exactly are you looking for? It helps to have a clear picture in your mind as you go about putting your kit together. For instance, you say 'full greaves' but are you referring to cased greaves (which wrap around the entire lower leg) or just the front facing style, which reach from knee to ankle with straps around the back? If it is the latter then that is what you are looking for; contemporary sources refer to the second one as greaves but in fact, they are schynbalds- since schynbalds did not enclose the lower leg, but usually were a single plate strapped over the front of the lower leg. Like these...Allan at Merc Tailor made these for me a few years ago, and unlike most armorers, he pads his for a more comfortable fit! Sorry for the shoddy pics, I've got no eye for that sort of thing.
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/PlateGreaves.jpg)
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Thats about exactly what I want, things like that ARE depicted in the Majowski bible as seen on his legs here:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kfv1uM-TvSo/S4Hv0TRxDaI/AAAAAAAAAK8/sSpq1nqalAU/s1600/David_Goliath_MaciejowskiBible.jpg)
Notice there is no maille chausses under it as well which is viable for a cheaper option to maille chausses as well as being period.
Thing is I don't know where to get anything like this everywhere that sells plate tends to make regular greaves and normal plate armor from the 14th-16th century. Same with knee cops as well. Maybe I will have to commission it, it's probably MUCH easier to make than regular greaves. I'd just want a set of those plus knee cops of the 13th century.
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Ulrich, there are several people who make these of excellent quality...Allan would've been first on my list because not only are his wares durable and good looking, they were affordable as well. Now, you could go with Stonekeep Armory...they've been in the biz for quite some time (I'm pretty sure Allan knows him too) - I've dealt with him before, his communications are straightforward and honest and his prices are about the best you'll find these days.
That's funny...I'm not able to get into any of his sites. You try: http://www.stonekeeparmory.com (http://www.stonekeeparmory.com)
Or try Illusion armoring...you can get a basic set of greaves/schynbalds for about $100/pair.
http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ (http://www.illusionarmoring.com/)
Try contacting either of the two- you might be able to talk them into doing a set of schynbalds w/floating knees or some such.
In the image you posted above, it looks like he was wearing padded chausses along with those schynbalds. Seeing as he is a man-at-arms rather than a knight, this makes sense to me. I would venture to say that if your hauberk was long enough, you could forego the mail chausses altogether and just go with a set of padded cuisses/chausses and the schynbalds. I happen to like Sir Brian's set up of splinted cuisses and greaves, but that's me. Let us know what you end up doing.
You could also do to chausses what Sir Nathan did with his (or get the riveted ones and do the same steps that Nathan did for his hauberk) if you were so inclined.
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Ulrich, one last, just came across these and they have exactly what you're looking for:
http://www.truehearth.com/legs.html (http://www.truehearth.com/legs.html)
I was looking at the articulated knee cup and one piece greaves...$130 for a set in mild, $240 for stainless. Add $18 for strapping, unless you're up for doing it yourself.
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I've always had trouble finding good cased greaves (the front and back full-wrap style), and found a number of places who only make the front-plate / gutter plate style greaves.
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I always have trouble finding late 13-early 14th century plate armor for some reason. I did find some rather high quality stuff at historical enterprises but it's expensive as f**k as it's tempered and spring quality. Probably worth it but don't have the money for it right now.
Now the last link you posted probably what I am gonna get, rather reasonably priced at only slightly more expensive than mercenary's tailor (which would of been my first choice but I didnt have the money at the time to buy it), only issue is heard greaves are VERY uncomfortable without padding. The last link I'm debating on getting them connected or separate, separate would be more versatile and period probably. They're not padded obviously so I'm gonna need padding under the rather thin linen chausses I already have.
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I thought you said you would wear padding underneath?
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Historically you would have "bulwarks", which is a "knee wrap", basically. It pads the upper part of the greaves and lower part of the cuisse from digging into your legs. There's a picture of it in "The World of the Medieval Knight" - http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Knight-Christopher-Gravett/dp/0872262774 (http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Knight-Christopher-Gravett/dp/0872262774)
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I'd probably have a new gambeson and padded chausses by now if my folks werent so "iffy" about me ordering overseas. I cant find a single place that offers a linen gambeson and padded chausses to go under my armor.
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i think vitus on the armour archive is working or selling linen leg padding. i remember a post some time last month...
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only issue is heard greaves are VERY uncomfortable without padding. The last link I'm debating on getting them connected or separate, separate would be more versatile and period probably. They're not padded obviously so I'm gonna need padding under the rather thin linen chausses I already have.
Greaves are quite comfortable when made properly. They're one of the most difficult pieces of armor to make correctly because they must be shaped to your leg so well. This is the one piece of armor that my armorer had to take molds of my leg to do right. The weight of the greave should be supported by the shape of the leg and rest on the calf. They become uncomfortable when they're made short and dig in to your shin because they're shaped improperly, or when they're too big and all the weight of the greave rests on the top of your foot. This is how most modern munition greaves are done unfortunately. Schynbalds are also period and require much less precision of fit and form, and are way cheaper.
I'd probably have a new gambeson and padded chausses by now if my folks werent so "iffy" about me ordering overseas. I cant find a single place that offers a linen gambeson and padded chausses to go under my armor.
1. Made in America, but not cheap, and they're off-the-rack sizes http://www.revivalclothing.com/14thcenturylinengambeson.aspx (http://www.revivalclothing.com/14thcenturylinengambeson.aspx)
2. Sir Gareth not only makes Gambesons but also makes the Gamboised Cuisses you're looking for http://gambesons.com/category/gambesons (http://gambesons.com/category/gambesons) **Standard gambeson is in cotton denim, but he'll do it in Linen as well according to his site
3. Jessica Finley will make anything you want out of anything you want http://fuhlendesigns.com/ (http://fuhlendesigns.com/) **Price comparable to the Revival Clothing offering, BUT this is full custom work and will fit your body perfectly!! She's also awesome to do business with, and I bet she can make you gamboised cuisses as well.
The term you should search for also is either gamboised cuisse, or padded cuisse, not necessarly chausses, as chausses more refers to a piece of clothing, not a piece of padded armor.
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3. Jessica Finley will make anything you want out of anything you want http://fuhlendesigns.com/ (http://fuhlendesigns.com/) **Price comparable to the Revival Clothing offering, BUT this is full custom work and will fit your body perfectly!! She's also awesome to do business with, and I bet she can make you gamboised cuisses as well.
I'll vouch for Jess's work. I've gotten a chance to see some of it close-up recently (she moved into our area, and lives about 20 minutes from me now).
She definitely is amazingly flexible with materials. One of her pieces that I got to see at VAF last week was one made with non-newtonian fluid material as part of the armor. You know, like silly-putty that gets hard under an impact, but is flexible rest of the time. I think she said that she won't work with that particular material again.... but it's an example of her willingness to experiment.
She also makes things quite durable.
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One of her pieces that I got to see at VAF last week was one made with non-newtonian fluid material as part of the armor. You know, like silly-putty that gets hard under an impact, but is flexible rest of the time.
Who was the client? Batman? ;)
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haahhaah naaa Raz Al Ghul
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You know, I hadn't considered that. Someone in my class is batman. Cool! :)
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Yeah but is he Michael Keaton, George Clooney or Christian Bale type of Batman? ;)
– OMG Tell me he isn’t like an Adam West! :o
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Michael Keaton was awesome in my book...you got a comedic actor who actually pulled it off, I was proud of him. I thought Val Kilmer also made an excellent Batman. Christian Bale is awesome...period.
I liked Adam West too...you knew what to expect, I looked forward to Batman as a kid! You can figure out who I did not like. ;)
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That's right! I totally forgot about Val Kilmer playing batman!