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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Leganoth on 2011-10-24, 03:52:39

Title: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Leganoth on 2011-10-24, 03:52:39
Im seeking a two color surcoat, black and white. One side black one side white, the ones  ive seen that are 2 colors dont come in black and white
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir William on 2011-10-25, 16:28:46
Check with the tailoress' that Sir Brian or Sir Nathan use...the cost of their tabards are not much more than what you'd get in a catalog, and they'd be custom fit to your measurements and can look pretty much however you want them to.  Barring that, try ebaY- there are a number of retailers on there who sell tabards/surcoats- and some of them even make them as well.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir James A on 2011-10-28, 19:08:11
Yep, +1 for the lady who did Sir Brian's surcoat - she did mine and the pics she sent me are *fantastic* - and I should have it soon (as I just remembered to send my info to Sir Brian) and will have some pics of it being worn at next month's ceremony.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: SirNathanQ on 2011-10-28, 19:37:57
I can't wait to see it, Sir James.  :)
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir William on 2011-10-28, 20:19:34
Me too...I need one for next year.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Leganoth on 2011-10-28, 22:14:19
Me too...I need one for next year.

Eh i dont know if there are any good seamstresses around me
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Brian on 2011-10-30, 09:55:55
Gentlemen, as I asked as the liaison for James with the seamstress who did my last three surcoats I am happy to do the same for you both. I am at your service.  ;)
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Leganoth on 2011-10-30, 20:55:28
Gentlemen, as I asked as the liaison for James with the seamstress who did my last three surcoats I am happy to do the same for you both. I am at your service.  ;)

Wait what do you mean
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: ECOX on 2011-10-30, 21:49:23
Leganoth, I just received my new surcoat. It is from http://www.wildrosefarm.com/ (http://www.wildrosefarm.com/). facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ethereal-Threads/116348339221 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ethereal-Threads/116348339221) They are the same ones that I bought my Templar coat from at a faire. My advantage was that I knew that hers fit me great and what size I needed. She uses wonderful,heavy natural cotton material. Her email is karen@etherealthreads.com I am posting pics under a new thread as not to derail yours.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Leganoth on 2011-10-31, 03:15:52
Leganoth, I just received my new surcoat. It is from http://www.wildrosefarm.com/ (http://www.wildrosefarm.com/). facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ethereal-Threads/116348339221 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ethereal-Threads/116348339221) They are the same ones that I bought my Templar coat from at a faire. My advantage was that I knew that hers fit me great and what size I needed. She uses wonderful,heavy natural cotton material. Her email is karen@etherealthreads.com I am posting pics under a new thread as not to derail yours.

Which did you order tabbard or surcoat and in what style, i saw your pics and its exactly what i want, one side black one white
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: ECOX on 2011-10-31, 03:22:59
It is a surcoat, from my understanding the differance being a tabbard is not joined together on the sides. She did not do black before my request. So she  found some, pre-washed it and the red to make sure it was all easy to care for. The color opposite my black is unbleached natural. I did not want the pure white. Email her for a quote and some size options. I am a fairly large guy so finding something to fit right is not easy. It was under a $100 for the coat, extra fabric for making matching pieces and shipping combined.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir William on 2011-11-01, 19:42:44
Gentlemen, as I asked as the liaison for James with the seamstress who did my last three surcoats I am happy to do the same for you both. I am at your service.  ;)

I really liked how yours came out so I think she is the one I want to go with.  I have an idea in mind but I need to put it to paper so I can 'see' it.  Will be in touch.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Leganoth on 2011-11-02, 22:25:22
It is a surcoat, from my understanding the differance being a tabbard is not joined together on the sides. She did not do black before my request. So she  found some, pre-washed it and the red to make sure it was all easy to care for. The color opposite my black is unbleached natural. I did not want the pure white. Email her for a quote and some size options. I am a fairly large guy so finding something to fit right is not easy. It was under a $100 for the coat, extra fabric for making matching pieces and shipping combined.

Did you ask her to make yours for you specificly or is the black/white an option
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: ECOX on 2011-11-03, 04:26:49
It was a custom request. But she said she had previous request for black and may add it. She went out of her way to find the black for me. Email her and talk to her and get a price, she is very easy to work with. I believe you will be pleased.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Brian on 2011-11-03, 08:17:32
Gentlemen, as I asked acted as the liaison for James with the seamstress who did my last three surcoats I am happy to do the same for you both. I am at your service.  ;)
Wait what do you mean
Sorry after I reread my original post I realized that I used the wrong wording...happens when I post prior to the second cup of coffee kicking in! ;)
As to my meaning: I was offering to serve as a go-between for anyone on this forum with the seamstress I used for my last three surcoats.  :)
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Edward on 2011-11-03, 13:56:02
It is a surcoat, from my understanding the differance being a tabbard is not joined together on the sides.

Yes, this is my understanding as well.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Leganoth on 2011-11-04, 00:08:12
Gentlemen, as I asked acted as the liaison for James with the seamstress who did my last three surcoats I am happy to do the same for you both. I am at your service.  ;)
Wait what do you mean
Sorry after I reread my original post I realized that I used the wrong wording...happens when I post prior to the second cup of coffee kicking in! ;)
As to my meaning: I was offering to serve as a go-between for anyone on this forum with the seamstress I used for my last three surcoats.  :)

Oh haha, sure thatd be great, theres no seamstresses around here. If she did make it would it be able to ship over here?
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Brian on 2011-11-04, 07:20:54
Sure I could mail it too you on the left coast. With insurance priority mail it should run anywhere from $6 - $13 if I have to purchase the mailer envelope at the post office.  :)
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir James A on 2011-11-04, 16:40:37
It is a surcoat, from my understanding the differance being a tabbard is not joined together on the sides.

Yes, this is my understanding as well.

Mine as well. From what I've seen, Tabards are popular in the late, late era - towards the "Musketeer" (rapier/classical fencing) times.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Leganoth on 2011-11-05, 01:52:20
Sure I could mail it too you on the left coast. With insurance priority mail it should run anywhere from $6 - $13 if I have to purchase the mailer envelope at the post office.  :)

Well sure that could work, then i could mail back paying you back or mail you prior to you sending it
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir John of Felsenbau on 2012-02-03, 14:17:35
As you can see from my "knight of the week" thread, I have so many surcoats, I can equipt my own Army of Knights. Each surcoat was sewn by hand by me, and has a coat of arms of the knight that I have researched.

I recently was doing one that originated in "Roxburg, Scotland" and much to my surprise, I found that one of the first settlers in Roxborough (or Felsenbau in german) was from Roxburgh, Scotland. As a matter of fact, Roxborough's first name was Roxburgh, named after his home land.

Sir John
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir William on 2012-02-03, 15:38:58
Sir John, what pattern do you use when you sew your surcoats?
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-02-04, 06:27:05
I found that one of the first settlers in Roxborough (or Felsenbau in german) was from Roxburgh, Scotland. As a matter of fact, Roxborough's first name was Roxburgh, named after his home land.

Wow, that's a mouth full. Is it a regional / dialect difference between Roxborough and Roxburgh? They seem similar enough I'd think they are the same.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir John of Felsenbau on 2012-02-04, 15:17:40
Sir William,

The surcoats are quite simple, so I just sort of winged it in making them. Although I did take the liberty of sewing the sides together at with wait for a few inches. It's not the way surcoats were made, but it looks much better and the sides don't move to give a sloppy look.

Sir James,

Well, in Scotland it was spelled various ways as time went on. I guess one main difference was why the name was chosen. Roxburgh in Scotland, in galeic came from "dark castle" while here where I live it was first named Roxburgh by an early settler from Roxburgh, Scotland who named his estate after his homeland. But later Johannes Kelpius (known as the Hermit of the Ridge) in a letter used the term: "Rocks-burrow" after the foxes holes and rocks he encounted when he built a sanctuary for himself in the area. That sanctuary still remains! When the area became a township in 1707, it took its name from Johannes Kelpius, but changed it to Roxborough, even though Roxborough was NEVER a borough.

Sir John
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-02-05, 14:26:45
The surcoats are quite simple, so I just sort of winged it in making them. Although I did take the liberty of sewing the sides together at with wait for a few inches. It's not the way surcoats were made, but it looks much better and the sides don't move to give a sloppy look.

I'm assuming the part I bolded above was ment to say "at the waist"? If not, then I'm not sure what you had intended to type. :)

Actually the surcoats worn over mail were joined at the side, or only partially slit from the armpit down to close with laces. From the bottom, the only slits were front and rear, primarily to facilitate sitting on a horse.

The tabbards worn with later period armor, after plate had become more standard, could sometimes be open on the sides and held together with a belt.

A jupon worn during the transitional period of the 14th century would be very close fitting and not much longer than waist length (sometimes just covering the hips, sometimes not), and these would have a lace closure somewhere, probably on the sides.

Long story short, the long surcoats should be mostly closed at the side and have a narrow arm-hole if possible. So I think you're doing them right. Ideally they should flare out wider at the base than at the waist, which can either be done with the shape of the front/rare panels, or with triangular gores inset at the bottom.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir William on 2012-02-08, 20:34:08
Is it historical for surcoats to be somewhat fitted?  I can't remember where I read that the contemporary ones which are sort of straight up and down with little emphasis on the outline underneath are just that...contemporary. 

However, from what Sir Edward described above, sort of makes the case- at least that it should be more than a 't-tunic'. 
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-02-08, 20:42:02

I think historically they varied quite a bit in terms of how well body-formed they were, but I'd guess that they usually were pretty well fitted by the 14th C. Earlier, it might have varied quite a bit more.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: SirNathanQ on 2012-02-08, 21:41:30
What is the best material for a surcoat? Does anyone wear one over riveted maille? What fabric, in what wieght hold up the best?
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-02-08, 22:05:23
Medium weight linen holds up really well. Especially if you have two layers like mine. Silk is good as well but beware white silk as it soaks up EVERYTHING including the bled out dye from other fabrics. Linen is really the best though. :)
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2012-02-08, 23:38:03
I still lack a surcoat that fits me. Got a GDFB linen templar one thats oversized and baggy on me, I have yet to meet someone who can resize it. Thing is I dont think white would look good over black maille unless I did teutonic knight. I also have a surcoat thats made of cotton thats currently waiting to be sewn but it's white so I may dye it. Dont know anyone who sews though so I dont really have as many resources as you guys do.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir William on 2012-02-09, 13:52:16
Sir Nathan, a linen surcoat, preferably lined, is the way to go.  My hauberk's riveted and all of my surcoats are either cotton over/linen inner or linen/linen.  The inner lining helps protect the garment from the stresses of being worn over armor.

I still need to get a custom one done, either by BJ or Brian's seamstress...but not until I'm sure that my CoA is one I want to go with moving forward.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-02-09, 15:09:10
Yeah, I ended up just having to teach myself to use a sewing machine. The good news is that simple surcoats are pretty easy to do. It only gets hard if you want to actually put charges on them. :)

Linen is probably the best material. Wool is another period option, but it might feel a bit heavy, and hot, depending on the weather. It still breathes well though, as does linen.

Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir William on 2012-02-09, 15:54:27
I had gotten one of GDFB's Templar surcoats in wool...let me tell you, there is NO WAY I could've worn it at Faire.  It would be perfect for any winter campaigns (which would've been unusual if history is correct) but at Faire, it would've been fairly brutal i think.
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir John of Felsenbau on 2012-02-11, 18:46:51
All the surcoats that I have made, and there are a LOT! Have all been hand sewn, even though I do have a sewing machine. It makes them more authentic.

Sir John
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-02-12, 01:50:15
wait, i've worn wool to faire all day. so did autumn ;)
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Sir John of Felsenbau on 2012-05-11, 16:40:26
As you can see from my knight of the week...I have a buldging closet full of surcoats and tabards. Keeps me busy and it's a type of artwork.

Sir John
Title: Re: Surcoat/Tabard
Post by: Joshua Santana on 2012-05-12, 18:07:54
Quote
As you can see from my knight of the week...I have a buldging closet full of surcoats and tabards. Keeps me busy and it's a type of artwork.

Indeed!  :D