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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: James de Avesnes on 2011-09-14, 14:34:23
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Hi I'm new here, so this may have been answered before. How does one make a trace and mantling? Specifically, what materials were they made of and are there specific patterns for different time periods. Thanks for your time.
Jim
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Hi there! Do you mean the torse and mantle? Basically linen, silk, or wool. Some of the mantles may have been leather. But the torse should be more of a fine fabric.
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Sir Edward, I think now would be a good time to show off the ones you and Sir Brian have crafted; quite good to my eyes and exactly what this man's looking for.
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I'll have to get back to this one as I'm running late to meet with my seamstress and then off to sword practice! :)
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Great! I'm looking forward to seeing your torse and mantle projects. Thanks for your help.
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James I hope this helps. I have been working on my first one. I still have some final sewing to do.
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Nice little tutorial ECOX, thank you! :)
Hi I'm new here, so this may have been answered before. How does one make a trace and mantling? Specifically, what materials were they made of and are there specific patterns for different time periods. Thanks for your time.
Welcome and Well Met Good James! I'm also very interested in learning if and how torse styling changed with the centuries. Torse and mantling are well documented on great helms, sugarloaf helms, jousting helms and parade helms in historical context. My specific question falls within James' broader scope; is torse and mantling historically proper for a mid-14th century English bascinet? If so, can someone point to documentation?
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Hi I'm new here, so this may have been answered before. How does one make a trace and mantling? Specifically, what materials were they made of and are there specific patterns for different time periods. Thanks for your time.
Jim
James I hope this helps. I have been working on my first one. I still have some final sewing to do.
Yep that’s the same pattern I based my torse on ECOX. I made some slight variations by using rope batting, which helped keep a uniform shape. My original mantle was two pieces of fabric in my primary metal and color of my COA. I sewed them together in a roughly 1’ X 2’ rectangle and then my wife did some creative pinning after I added it to the helm. My newest mantle is a core of thin leather sandwiched between two pieces of raw silk dyed in my primary metal and color. I cut the leather core in a more decorative pattern (a sort of wavy ringlets) and then had a seamstress sew the silk onto the leather.
Sorry I don’t have any updated pictures of my new mantle. I’m still using my original torse though!
Original mantle & torse:
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/Tah908/Helm_001.jpg)
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ECOX, nice man, nice...did you make that armor stand yourself, by the way?
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Thanks everybody, for the input! Hopefully I can get one setup here shortly.
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@ Lord Rodney, Thank you but it is not of my own making, but a web find.
@ Lord Brian, The rope batting would be much easier and better. I saw some the day after stuffing mine.
@ Sir William, The stand was a Garage sale find. cost me a dollar and would be easy to make some tubing and a pipe bender.
Not sure of the etiquette, did not mean to hijack post.
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I plan on buying a mannequin for my armor, dunno how expensive thatll be though
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I searched high and low for a used, reasonably priced mannequin to no avail. Making my own turned out to be my only cost effective answer. This thread contains several different armour stands and a bit of silliness:
Armour Stand (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,985.0.html)
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ECOX, I like it...very utilitarian.
Leganoth, I've checked extensively...mannequins weren't built to hold the weight of armor...if you were only going to hang thin-gauge costume armor then yes, go for it. Lord Rodney's is but one fine example of an armor stand...although I really do like his.
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I was just looking at the mantles displayed in the Codex Manesse and I see that many of the helms display red cords hanging out of them. Was this some sort of chinstrap that ties akin to Samurai helmets?
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Hard to say, can you post a picture of it? I have occasionally come across some examples of lanyards / chains used to hold the great helm at the base of the neck/upper back as a way of stowage while not being worn. There is one statue of an Italian noble/hero whose name escapes me that has his helm stowed in such a manner. :-\
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Here's link to what I'm talking about. It sure does appear to be a chinstrap, but then I am not well versed on this area:
http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg848/0049?sid=b9253b385963a07516617181469e881a (http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg848/0049?sid=b9253b385963a07516617181469e881a)
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I would wager it's not similar to the cord on samurai helmets, as those had a separate faceplate and head/neck protection. The cord on the samurai armor is what holds it on, but a great helm / sugarloaf / similar styled helm can not be knocked back off your head from a well-placed frontal blow like an untied samurai helmet could. My bet would be on Sir Brian's comment, that it is likely for tying it off and being able to carry it without having to hold it in their hands. Sir Edward made reference to helmet straps worn "around the neck" on some of the earlier period literature last week at MDRF, but I can't remember the exact source.
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Yeah, it could be a chin strap or a strap for slinging it over your back when you're not wearing it. There are some great helms with holes near the bottom which are believed to be used for this, but it's not a common feature. Then again, there may be only about 20 surviving great helms in the world.
In Chretien de Troyes, there are a lot of references to shields being hung from the neck. I'm forgetting now if he also makes mention of helms being hung this way.
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In Chretien de Troyes, there are a lot of references to shields being hung from the neck. I'm forgetting now if he also makes mention of helms being hung this way.
I think that's what I was remembering, the shield strap.
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de Troyes and others have written about the shield being hung from the neck. Personally, I find it a bit uncomfortable, preferring a longer guige to go over the shoulder.
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James, here`s mine before it was fully painted.
There is a photograph of it on my armour stand with the full kit somwhere..........now where is that ::)
G.
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I can't see the pic Gerard, do you have a link to it? I have the materials ready, but I wanted all the input I could get before I started construction. I'll post pics when I get mine finished.
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Yeah, it could be a chin strap or a strap for slinging it over your back when you're not wearing it. There are some great helms with holes near the bottom which are believed to be used for this, but it's not a common feature. Then again, there may be only about 20 surviving great helms in the world.
In Chretien de Troyes, there are a lot of references to shields being hung from the neck. I'm forgetting now if he also makes mention of helms being hung this way.
Whats the best material to use to make a torse and mantle
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I can't see the pic Gerard, do you have a link to it? I have the materials ready, but I wanted all the input I could get before I started construction. I'll post pics when I get mine finished.
Ooops sorry. :-[
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2220602681705&set=t.611009664&type=3&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2220602681705&set=t.611009664&type=3&theater)
That`s not an extra large head piece it is actually one of my pages holding the helm lol ;)
Lippy the lion enjoying a French Sausage.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=497494648499&set=t.611009664&type=3&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=497494648499&set=t.611009664&type=3&theater)
G.
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Another good photograph at the ceremony of the helms at The tournament of Walraversijde. Ostende, Belgium.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=416650968961&set=t.611009664&type=3&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=416650968961&set=t.611009664&type=3&theater)
And a well deserved rest after the tournament lol
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1760398928207&set=t.611009664&type=3&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1760398928207&set=t.611009664&type=3&theater)
G.