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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Leganoth on 2011-08-28, 20:36:03
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Where did you get yours? How thick is it? Any recomendations? Price?
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Mine are 16 gauge steel. Recommendations depend completely on what style/period you're arming for and whether or not you will be doing any fighting in it, or just for fun and looking cool. In general, 14 gauge is a "heavy duty" combat breastplate, 16 gauge is a "standard" combat breastplate, and 18 gauge is "decorative / dent magnet only".
I've seen prices from under $100 for cheap generic ebay ones, to about $8,500 for a custom gothic cuirass.
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I got my peascod from Illusion Armoury, it's 14 guage breast plate and 16 guage on the back plate and tassets. I got it for reenacting, so I went with the heavy duty. Allan at Mercenaries Tailor makes some very nice pieces for different time periods. My recomendation with armor is save up and buy quality pieces. I know they cost more, but in the long run the will last longer and take much more punishment than the cheaper alternatives. The also look better and will fit better. But this is just my opinion.
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I got my peascod from Illusion Armoury, it's 14 guage breast plate and 16 guage on the back plate and tassets. I got it for reenacting, so I went with the heavy duty. Allan at Mercenaries Tailor makes some very nice pieces for different time periods. My recomendation with armor is save up and buy quality pieces. I know they cost more, but in the long run the will last longer and take much more punishment than the cheaper alternatives. The also look better and will fit better. But this is just my opinion.
I was planning on getting the Merc steel cuirass off medieval collectibles or dark knight armory, its 18 gauge and it looks great for my kit but its not durable enough as i would want it :(. I dont have many medieval collector friends out in Southern Cali or re-enactments here, just doing it for hobby/looks but i want somthing durable. Since its going over my chain i dont want it to be super round or make me look like a fatty, also a surcoat will go over it so the Merc was flat and great looks
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Before you go chucking money away, what period are you doing?
My cuirass is from Merctailor. 16g throughout. Taken all the abuse I've thrown at in in stride.
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Before you go chucking money away, what period are you doing?
My cuirass is from Merctailor. 16g throughout. Taken all the abuse I've thrown at in in stride.
crusades (14th i believe but i could be very wrong lol) going for a fantasy/legitimate look at same time
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no plate in the crusades on the body im affraid. at least during the first main 4 crusades
i have a 16 guage stainless b&b, is kinda heavy and over kill i think
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no plate in the crusades on the body im affraid. at least during the first main 4 crusades
i have a 16 guage stainless b&b, is kinda heavy and over kill i think
As Sir Wolf said, NO PLATE !!. One thing you could get away with is a Coat of plates. I`ve seen a long version of the Wisby style C.O.P. in the Osprey books; Teutonic Knight 1190-1561, and Knight Templar 1120-1312. Both look great for early C14th. A shorter one would be great for later in the period, especially under a shorter surcoat or tabard/dupon;
http://house-excelsior.com/images/wisby.jpg (http://house-excelsior.com/images/wisby.jpg)
I prefere to wear one of these for many reasons.
The only thing you may wear at a push, if you`re persona is high status, and much later in the C14th, is a Churburg segmented breast plate;
http://www.medievalrepro.com/Breastplates.htm (http://www.medievalrepro.com/Breastplates.htm)
Or a globular breast plate (I think they also have one of these at Churburg)
Hope this helps,
G.
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Leganoth, if you are looking to do a Templar kit then no plate for the most part; you might could get away with plate defenses on the lower arms and legs, the knees perhaps, but definitely no breastplate or cuirass. Having said that, if you went with one of the other, longer-lived orders, then you could go plate to a certain degree. Sir Nathan can tell you all you'd want to know about the Hospitalier and Teutonic Knights, myself and a few others can go at length regarding the Templars were you so inclined to read/listen.
First things first though...what do you ultimately wish to do with this kit? IF it is just for show, then 18 gauge is perfectly acceptable...it will have the look without the requisite weight. The mercenary harness on medieval collectibles is a good example.
Mercenary's Tailor is a separate entity; now Allan, the proprietor, makes all of his armor by hand to your measurements...when it comes to armor, it has been my experience that buying off the rack will only lead to disappointment as it wasn't built for you specifically, but for a range of sizes. Armor made to fit you is much more comfortable to wear, is usually better made than the off the shelf stuff you see on line and will last longer and withstand more abuse. Not to mention is pricing is very friendly.
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You can find a very good breast & backplate for $277 at The Mercenaries Tailor (http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=130) (highly recommended).
As noted above, the 14th century saw the development of the breastplate. The whole "14th century backplate" issue is very hotly debated by those more knowledgeable than myself. As such, I asked Allen at Merc Tailor to just produce the globular breastplate pictured in his catalog and I even asked for a custom stop-guard. His price was very, very reasonable at a little more than half the cost of breast & back.
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Yea and if you get JUST the breastplate, I'm sure you could get it for under $200 -and custom fit to your measurements. That is a deal you cannot beat, unless you made one of your own.
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If you're going for the crusader era no plate was used on the bodies, except for the coat of plates. MAYBE you could get away with knee and elbow cops, maybe even schynbalds, but all that is worn over maille anyway so I'd go for maille, and later reinforce it with some parts of plate.
Heres a nice place to get a COP but it's a little more pricey than a breastplate.
http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/CoP.html (http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/CoP.html)
You could also make your own probably, as long as you have decent skills with peening rivets and cutting plates and minimal shaping skills.
For plate I highly suggest mercenaries tailor, I have yet to get any of their stuff but from the pics of the other members their stuff looks quite good and you can get it custom fitted. Off the rack plate armor if it doesnt fit you it can give you bad armor bites and stuff, so if you go for plate I say go for custom fitted.
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Leganoth, have a look at this:
http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effigy/effigy%20analysis.html (http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effigy/effigy%20analysis.html)
It tells you a lot of info in a few "simple", but very useful, graphs. Remember 14th Century is 1300-1399, not 1400-1499, so as was said, minimal plate, and only for the wealthier. The crusades were over before the 14th cent, if you're going for historical accuracy.
Also, I have a breast/back from Allan at MercenarysTailor.com - custom made to my measurements, and only $211. It's 16 gauge steel, too. If you can't get measurements for top to bottom, waist, and width of the upper portion of the breastplate, don't order it unless you want to cut it up and modify it to fit - the top of the breastplate shouldn't be any wider than nipple to nipple, or you won't be able to cross your arms or move naturally without bruising or pinching. And plate armor is in no way a "one size fits all", and not even remotely close to mail fitment - it's a whole other beast to itself.
(I'm speaking from experience. I have a few pieces that I bought from a generic vendor, and I have pieces that were custom made - I'd use the generic pieces as decor, but I refuse to wear them after seeing how they "fit" - or rather, don't fit. You might get lucky, but unless you're the same measurements as whoever that "we made 50 of these, all the same" breastplate was made for, it's not going to fit right, and you'll kick yourself later.
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An excellent suggestion Ulrich...I've been eyeing that CoP of theirs ever since Wolf first posted it up in another thread.
Sir James, I had a similar happenstance with an OTR breast/back plate. Ugh. Like it was made for a short fat man, it hung horribly. Sold that the day after I received it and paid it forward - the lesson, that is. lol
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Right now my chain and helm are functional quality but for plate i will be using for renfaires and conventions and such
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Leganoth, if you're looking for plate just for faires and such, then go with the lighter gauge...you'll be thankful toward the end of the day. If you're already wearing functional mail- well, I can tell you that if you're not used to wearing it, that alone would be taxing enough by day's end.
I normally start wearing a hauberk before summer...but I rarely put everything on because its such a hassle...but if you get used to carrying the weight it won't seem such a big deal when you're fully garbed.
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Leganoth, have a look at this:
http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effigy/effigy%20analysis.html (http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effigy/effigy%20analysis.html)
It tells you a lot of info in a few "simple", but very useful, graphs. Remember 14th Century is 1300-1399, not 1400-1499, so as was said, minimal plate, and only for the wealthier. The crusades were over before the 14th cent, if you're going for historical accuracy.
Also, I have a breast/back from Allan at MercenarysTailor.com - custom made to my measurements, and only $211. It's 16 gauge steel, too. If you can't get measurements for top to bottom, waist, and width of the upper portion of the breastplate, don't order it unless you want to cut it up and modify it to fit - the top of the breastplate shouldn't be any wider than nipple to nipple, or you won't be able to cross your arms or move naturally without bruising or pinching. And plate armor is in no way a "one size fits all", and not even remotely close to mail fitment - it's a whole other beast to itself.
(I'm speaking from experience. I have a few pieces that I bought from a generic vendor, and I have pieces that were custom made - I'd use the generic pieces as decor, but I refuse to wear them after seeing how they "fit" - or rather, don't fit. You might get lucky, but unless you're the same measurements as whoever that "we made 50 of these, all the same" breastplate was made for, it's not going to fit right, and you'll kick yourself later.
Well, if I was going to get a plate or any expensive wear i would measure myself to see what size i should get so it usually fits nice
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Leganoth, if you're looking for plate just for faires and such, then go with the lighter gauge...you'll be thankful toward the end of the day. If you're already wearing functional mail- well, I can tell you that if you're not used to wearing it, that alone would be taxing enough by day's end.
I normally start wearing a hauberk before summer...but I rarely put everything on because its such a hassle...but if you get used to carrying the weight it won't seem such a big deal when you're fully garbed.
I know, the chain gets heavy on the shoulders, I have a thin medieval padded shirt but i havent tried wearing it under the chain. It starts to get heavy on the shoulders after about 20-30 minutes
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What sites have coats of plates on them? Havent seen many of those, I like the look a little too
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When I get back to work on my mid 14th century kit, I'm planning on going with a mail hauberk with coat of plate over the body. On the legs I'm going with mail chausses and full splinted legs. I'm not sure yet if I will put anything over the mail on my arms or not nor have I completely settled on a helm.
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What sites have coats of plates on them? Havent seen many of those, I like the look a little too
I've heard nothing but good things about this one in particular- I should caution you, in this game, you get what you pay for...you would be very lucky to find a quality piece on the cheap. Not saying you can't, but you have to keep the mindset that you get quality when you pay for it.
http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/CoP.html (http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/CoP.html)
I'm in the process of acquiring a used brig...similar to the CoP but the plates are smaller fronted and backed by linen where the CoP is fixed to a leather garment thereby making it more durable, imho.
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You could always have a go at making one yourself. There are plenty of patterns and instructions on the net.
G.
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You could always have a go at making one yourself. There are plenty of patterns and instructions on the net.
G.
links? ;)
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You could always have a go at making one yourself. There are plenty of patterns and instructions on the net.
G.
links? ;)
http://leviathanmunitions.com/WisbyCoatKitInstructions.aspx (http://leviathanmunitions.com/WisbyCoatKitInstructions.aspx)
http://www.oocities.org/welshforge/COP.htm (http://www.oocities.org/welshforge/COP.htm)
http://threeriver.org/marshal/images/armor_illusF_pattern.gif (http://threeriver.org/marshal/images/armor_illusF_pattern.gif)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/80888788@N00/2392778570/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/80888788@N00/2392778570/#)
Just for a starter ;)
G.
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Leganoth, if you're looking for plate just for faires and such, then go with the lighter gauge...you'll be thankful toward the end of the day. If you're already wearing functional mail- well, I can tell you that if you're not used to wearing it, that alone would be taxing enough by day's end.
I normally start wearing a hauberk before summer...but I rarely put everything on because its such a hassle...but if you get used to carrying the weight it won't seem such a big deal when you're fully garbed.
I know, the chain gets heavy on the shoulders, I have a thin medieval padded shirt but i havent tried wearing it under the chain. It starts to get heavy on the shoulders after about 20-30 minutes
The padded shirt isn't much good if you wear it OVER the mail...under, you'll notice a difference.
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What sites have coats of plates on them? Havent seen many of those, I like the look a little too
I've heard nothing but good things about this one in particular- I should caution you, in this game, you get what you pay for...you would be very lucky to find a quality piece on the cheap. Not saying you can't, but you have to keep the mindset that you get quality when you pay for it.
http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/CoP.html (http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/CoP.html)
Sh*t thats expensive, and why are the drags so much!
I'm in the process of acquiring a used brig...similar to the CoP but the plates are smaller fronted and backed by linen where the CoP is fixed to a leather garment thereby making it more durable, imho.
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The dags you mean; they're cut and shaped to fit, then riveted onto/under a matching leather piece. Like I said previously, you want quality, you have to pay for it.
I went the cheap-o route, a lot of us did at one point and we've all come to the same conclusion- off the rack armor just doesn't cut it.
I've had cheap butted mail and experienced ring loss after the first faire season; bought a 'small' sized breast and back plate on eBay for less than $100 - it fit like it was made for a man much shorter and much fatter than me.
When it comes to hard armor, unless it was made specifically for you, you're just not going to be happy with it...something's not going to be right. Even something so small as a 1/4 or 1/2 inch in difference can cause armor bites or leave you exposed.
You might give making your own a try...you can acquire the sheet metal and cut it to the shapes as outlined by the sites Sir Gerard posted. I know Mad Matt sells his CoP instruction kit for like $10.
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10 dollasr for a CoP kit? where do i sign up lol! and what skills would i need for that
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10 dollasr for a CoP kit? where do i sign up lol! and what skills would i need for that
$10 for the instructions, not a kit. You still have to purchase steel, leather, rivets, buckles, etc. ;)
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10 dollasr for a CoP kit? where do i sign up lol! and what skills would i need for that
$10 for the instructions, not a kit. You still have to purchase steel, leather, rivets, buckles, etc. ;)
oh god they dont sell that kinda stuff around here lol
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I'm sure the materials could be found in your area. Any metal fabricator will sell you scrap, or let you look through their dumpster. All the other components can be found at a leather store near you. Try Tandy Leather (http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/locations/storesearch.aspx) (I'm partial to them as I have friends that work there ;) ).
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http://www.madmattsarmory.com/inv_body.php (http://www.madmattsarmory.com/inv_body.php)
They sell a kit right here for 65 bucks. I think you might need your own leather or canvas to attach it to but that saves your the effort of getting the metal yourself.
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I'm sure the materials could be found in your area. Any metal fabricator will sell you scrap, or let you look through their dumpster. All the other components can be found at a leather store near you. Try Tandy Leather (http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/locations/storesearch.aspx) (I'm partial to them as I have friends that work there ;) ).
If you don't have a Tandy Leather nearby, I've ordered from Brettun's Village (http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/ (http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/)) quite a few times. I just got a big hunk of deliciously flavored cow skin, I mean, leather, from them yesterday, actually. As a bonus, they have punches, grommets, and misc fittings and other cool stuff to take away your money, too.
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I've seen Matt's plans before...even an idiot like myself could do it given time and inclination. :)