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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2011-08-22, 17:16:43
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Allright so my chausses came in the mail today, I am impressed by the quality of the chausses also the linen is pretty soft so they're quite comfortable, actually they're more comfortable than the skinny jeans I normally wear. The shirt and braies however are somewhat rough and irritating to my skin, the braies were HUGE and super baggy but they fit me pretty well considering the stuff I usually wear the baggyness is a break from the tight pants I normally wear. The shirt I wish was less... rough on my skin it's actually quite irritating. Would washing it make it softer? Also it didnt come with laces, so I have yet to lace the chausses to the braies anyone got suggestions on what to use for lacing it? Preferably a period way to lace them.
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I "cheat" and don't wear period undergarments, but for the chausses, I'd suggest using a pourpoint. It's a lot of weight to hold up by braies, and I'd wager they would pull themselves down or rip out pretty easily. If not a pourpoint, a C-belt designed for wearing plate legs would be my second suggestion, but a pourpoint would be much more comfortable.
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Just to be clear, are we talking about mail chausses or linen chausses? If it's the latter, they should point to the braies. If it's mail, then yes, some sort of pourpoint or doublet is probably ideal. I use a belt for mine, and I have to make it really damn tight, as in several inches smaller than my normal waist measurement.
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Linen ones, I don't have the money to afford maille ones yet, or at least the correct sizing yet. I did email the company saying it DID say it would come with laces for it.
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Oops, my mistake, I must have seen "in the mail" and just focused on the "mail" part. I thought padded chausses would be underwear. :oops:
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wash in cold and dry on no heat.
you can use leather thongs to attach the chausis to the brais. its not cotton it's linen, it's a lil rougher than cotton so you will get used to it. wash it a lot and use fabric softener when drying with no heat NO HEAT! (or it will shrink bad)
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(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5787/1001337pb.jpg)
Heres how they look on me, makes my outfit MUCH more medieval looking, I can't however stand how the boxer part of it sticks out a bit showing white and getting rid of my "dark" appearance I'm aiming for. May dye it black as well cause white looks terrible on me. I did wash the clothing and it's MUCH softer now. After wearing all that linen, I actually want to get a linen gambeson, just don't know where to get one for under 150 dollars, and I don't want a stuffed one just want a few layers of linen with a little bit of cotton batting.
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Check out icefalcon...he's got lightweight arming cottes for $125 or so...sale ends soon though I think.
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Looks good! Which part are you complaining about that's white? I'm not seeing it in the photo. If you mean a little white sticks out right in the crotch area, well... that's completely period. :) But yeah, dying it would probably work well.
The way that was hidden in period was with long surcoats. By the time the doublets and jupons and the like shortened to waist-length, they were starting to join the hose together and/or put on a codpiece.
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ya u really should have a knee length tunic on also. but that can come later
i warn you, dyeing brais isn't very period ;) the only colored brais i have seen are in religious paintings showing marters or torture scenes
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Yea, the white bits are supposed to show, Ulrich...lets folks know you're wearing smallclothes. LOL
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I attached them using this crappy spool of made in India leather cord I bought a LONG time ago for crafts, so it works I think, only problem is it doesn't like staying tied all the time at least in a typical shoe lace knot. Oh well, to solve that I'm just gonna get a knee length gambeson and cut the cords on my braies to suit my waist length because the cords are ridiculously long and hang down to my knees if I don't tuck them in, not gonna cut them totally but they can use a trim. Wearing a tunic under my already tight gambeson would be a bit of a stretch, obviously I'm getting bigger and may soon need to buy a new one, not like I really like the one I already have as it's cotton and quite hot in the summer to wear. The funniest part was after I made my order the 13th century braies ended up going out of stock, I bought the last pair apparently.
Now I gotta figure out where to make my next purchase, could always go for turn shoes but I really DON'T like the soft feeling of medieval boots, the GDFB ones are good enough for me and probably more durable than them and feel more modern in the soles along with hobnails that make them less slippery than other stuff.
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Be carefull with hobnails, sometimes they make the shoes more slippery. They were meant to grip the ground, like cleats, and to help preserve the leather on the bottom of the shoes or boots. My Broghans have heal plates and they are very slick on wet pavement or sidewalks and on tile floors like in stores. I'm actually planning to get a second pair without heal plates to avoid this issue. I like my heal plates for when the ground is wet or slippery so I'm keeping them on my current pair.
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Although it's not period, if you do want to dye the braies, you can pick up some RIT dye at Walmart/etc for about $4, but I agree with the others to leave it white, as it's period. With the hauberk on too, I'm sure the white bit is hidden even more.
I think it's hard to see in the pic because the wall you're standing in front of is so light, but I think I can vaguely make out part of it. There's only so long I'm willing to stare at another man's crotch area online. :D
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Get a codpiece if swinging in the wind makes you a shade uncomfortable, Ulrich. ;)
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Just gonna keep it white for now, the undershirt as well. Next goal is to get a nice tunic to wear over so I have a full soft kit. preferably in red or something. I may get another set of chausses too, they sold burgundy and black ones which I assume are red and black which are my heraldry colors. Suits me more IMO cause they look so damn cool together. Still wish I had period correct black hobnail boots as well as a nice red period ring belt. Was thinking of the one here in red http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/leather.html (http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/leather.html)
That would look good with my stuff, the coat of plates there is also tempting lol.
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Ha! We looking at the same places. I also rather fancy their coat of plates. Can anyone comment on the suitability of 18 gauge mild steel as being suitable for torso armour? I've lent out my Battle of Wisby book http://www.amazon.com/Armour-Battle-Wisby-Bengt-Thordeman/dp/1891448056/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314261793&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Armour-Battle-Wisby-Bengt-Thordeman/dp/1891448056/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314261793&sr=8-1), which has a bunch of measurements.
As for the shoes, the thinner soles of medieval footwear make it much easier to emulate the stances of the ancient fight books. Read the following article http://www.thearma.org/essays/historical-footwear.html (http://www.thearma.org/essays/historical-footwear.html) for more about how footwear affects the way we fight.
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Can anyone comment on the suitability of 18 gauge mild steel as being suitable for torso armour?
In SCA fighting it dents but you can hammer it back. If you are reenacting and have maille and padding under it is perfect. I have recently put together my own #1 Wisby kit; with a harbor freight shear,
Roper Whitney 5JR punch, and a belt sander it took only a few hours. Made it with a linen shell. (need to take pictures)
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yeah you do you goof
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Thanks for the report, when the time comes I'll ask for thicker, better, steel.
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I have a 16g CoP I have used for years for SCA, no dents, but I find it too heavy. I am going to use the 18g from here on.
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Sir James, you're rather large and strong...if you find it heavy, I'm certain I will. I think 18ga for a CoP is perfectly ok, so long as you've got padding and mail, or lots of padding w/out mail underneath.
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I concur with James. In fact, my current SCA coat of plates actually has hidden plastic plates for that very same reason! (Please don't hate me) I'm not getting any younger and the weight difference is huge.
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I really don't mind cheating on materials most of the time. We don't have the opportunity to practice in our armor for hours every day, and thus stay in the same kind of shape that historical knights would have. Comfortable armor is a good thing. :)
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I remember when the pickle barrel armor first came out years ago...I've seen some really crappy stuff come out but it was about functionality, not looks. Pitbull Armory actually made harnesses out of the same pickle barrels but they were actually good looking. Up close of course you could tell, but he took the time to shape and form the pieces so it didn't look like you were wearing a cut up barrel like some of the others. lol
I've also heard good things about the use of high impact plastic as an alternative to steel...perfect for the SCA since they're not doing any steel combat, its all rattan.
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I have a 16g CoP I have used for years for SCA, no dents, but I find it too heavy. I am going to use the 18g from here on.
Are all the plates 16g? or just the ones on the front?
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I really don't mind cheating on materials most of the time. We don't have the opportunity to practice in our armor for hours every day, and thus stay in the same kind of shape that historical knights would have. Comfortable armor is a good thing. :)
Agreed. Nor do we have other people who we can have clean our armor, nor do we get paid (or get paid much) to do what we do. If it's hidden, it's no big deal. If it's visible and still looks right - aluminum, steel, titanium - it doesn't bother me. I'd rather see people in non-period materials but looking medieval than people running around in jeans and t-shirts. :)
Sir Ulrich - I've heard good things about Wintertree Crafts. I'd contact them and give them a go.
Sir James Barker - I had no idea you make armor too. How do I bribe you for an open workshop day? :D
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Well I am getting a COP eventually, maybe if I EVER do SCA fighting I'll go for the COP over maille route with a kettle helm and Visby gauntlets. I do plan to get it with either iron or regular steel plates though even if it's heavy, I could use some strength training and added mass when fighting, besides plate doesn't nearly encumber you as much as maille does or so I've been told, though it's a lot less flexible than maille it's less heavy. Still wondering how hard it would be to make a COP myself made to my measurements, anyone got any idea how I could and what tools I'd need?
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Strength is handy. Regardless of armour type. Lift weights. Find any excuse you can to be physical. Whilst it is true that the average medieval man was fitter than the average man of today. Today our elite performers are vastly superior to our ancestors. Modern physical training methods work. Go to the gym, lift weights, and you'll fight longer, recover faster. And for you Sir Ulrich, eat more!
Breathing is important as well. If you breath using your traps, pecs, and neck muscles you'll be lifting all your torso armour as well as your ribcage. If you belly breath you're only pushing out the armour that covers your belly. The less you breath, the less energy you burn. The less energy you burn, the longer you can fight before you run out of energy. Being in the right state of mind leads to efficient breathing. An example of western breath control can be found in the prayer before combat. Prayers are often spoken at a controlled pace, this regulates breathing. Think of the English army at Agincourt, in the morning they prep, advance, pause and pray, attack... win!
Here's an article on how to make a CoP http://www.armourarchive.org/essays/cop_pod/ (http://www.armourarchive.org/essays/cop_pod/). If you have any fears about measurements, you could make a CoP out of cheap fabric and plastic/cardboard. Then cut your steel and leather using the cheaper material as a template. Here's one CoP template http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/wisby_cop/ (http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/wisby_cop/). There's quite a few more different styles in the 1361 Battle of Wisby book. Some style have larger plates, some smaller, some have shoulders, some don't. Have a google. http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=9900&step=4&showunits=inches&id=839&top_cat=849 (http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=9900&step=4&showunits=inches&id=839&top_cat=849) is an American company that sells sheet steel, they're selling 36" x 48" 16 gauge mild steel for $44 USD. Not necessarily the cheapest. If you hunt around you'll probably find a place that will cut it for you as well. Most cutting places use vector artwork, you can create this using Inkscape (free from http://inkscape.org (http://inkscape.org)) to trace around your pattern.
Have you considered lamellar? What makes it good is that you can lace them together yourself. It is faster to make than mail, and is better at reducing blunt trauma - though not as good as CoPs or larger plate harnesses. See http://www.polarbearforge.com/lamellar.htm (http://www.polarbearforge.com/lamellar.htm) for an example of various lame designs and an indication of cost per square metre. I think those prices are a little high and that you can get them cheaper by going directly to a steel cutting company.
Please note I haven't used any of the commercial companies above, the links are just there to give you an indication of what is possible. Shop around!
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I have a 16g CoP I have used for years for SCA, no dents, but I find it too heavy. I am going to use the 18g from here on.
Are all the plates 16g? or just the ones on the front?
All are 16g on the old one; the back is armored as much as the front.
The new one is a replica of the Wisby 1 CoP all 18g and it is light. Even if I take a blow hard enough to bent the lighter plates it does not injure me underneath as the metal takes all the force.
Sir James Barker - I had no idea you make armor too. How do I bribe you for an open workshop day? :D
Sir Wolf and I modified and old helm once and then I made this CoP, that is the extent of my armoring, I dabble in many crafts. However maybe late winter I may hold a CoP making day for those who wish to come over; I am booked until after Halloween with events, weddings, and so on and plan to wall in my shop and run power in the early winter. I am building a wood working shop in my basement where I have a few armoring tools also.
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dude i am so in!!!!!!!!