ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir William on 2011-06-22, 15:42:04
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I found this on eBay and was struck by its attractiveness...but also because to me it seems like someone took an Arabic blade and attached it to a Euro-style cross and hilt. Your thoughts?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150619468678&fromMakeTrack=true (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150619468678&fromMakeTrack=true)
Note the double crescent moons on the blade...suggesting an eastern origin rather than a Euro one. Maybe Bill can weigh in.
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i like the 3 groved fuller
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I have a supposed Saracen blade...remind me to bring it w/me next time we all meet up. Triple fullered just like this one with the crescent moon marks on the blade, just like this one. The seller let it go for $130- did he sucker me or not? I shall let you be the judge. I think I was suckered and said so...he took affront to the remark so I said I would have it appraised and let him know. I have dug up better specimens in my backyard as a kid, I am sure. lol
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I found this on eBay and was struck by its attractiveness...but also because to me it seems like someone took an Arabic blade and attached it to a Euro-style cross and hilt. Your thoughts?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150619468678&fromMakeTrack=true (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150619468678&fromMakeTrack=true)
Note the double crescent moons on the blade...suggesting an eastern origin rather than a Euro one. Maybe Bill can weigh in.
You know, I don't really know. I'm not at all an expert on the historical originals, at least as far as distinguishing fakes.
Many of the swords from that era didn't have maker's marks. However, sometimes they re-hilted Saracen blades and the like, so some strange looking specimens can exist.
This sword certainly looks old, with plenty of pitting. But it could be a Victorian fake.
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It is what I am thinking...hard to tell w/out having more experience and blade in-hand. Worth a conversation though, no?
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I'd feel rather safe in saying it's not a modern repro. It's really hard to tell from the pics, the slight waviness in the blade and blade edge, look to be hand-made. The pitting, as Sir Edward said, seems to look right in the pics.
The seller has a good number of antiques for sale (http://shop.ebay.com/sunnytampa/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562 (http://shop.ebay.com/sunnytampa/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562)), but most of them seem to be the last ~200 years. If that sword IS indeed from 1300, it looks to be in very good shape for 800 years old, to be in the hands of a random seller/collector. It's possible, but I'd put my weight towards guessing a Victorian Era repro that was poorly cared for or specifically distressed.
That said, I'm in no way an expert, I just enjoy looking at pointy things.
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Also, well preserved swords from that era sell for considerably more. The price is more appropriate to a Victorian reproduction as well.
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It's possibly a Victorian piece, at best. It could also very easily be a 20th century theater prop. While one can never fully judge based off of pictures (particularly slightly blurry pics like the seller has), I feel I can safely say it isn't medieval. The guard certainly isn't, that's for sure. The blade looks pretty shoddy, and is probably a boat anchor based on what I can see of the taper and shape (though it's hard to tell). The crescent moons are a European decoration, but much later period (I haven't seen them before the 18th century), and since they are stamped rather than engraved, that means they had to be put on before the blade was hardened (*if* it is hardened), so it means the blade can't be that old. And, as Ed points out, if it were the real deal, that sword would be selling well over the 10K mark, if not higher for it's condition.
I'd feel rather safe in saying it's not a modern repro. It's really hard to tell from the pics, the slight waviness in the blade and blade edge, look to be hand-made. The pitting, as Sir Edward said, seems to look right in the pics.
I have to disagree. I've seen modern reproductions "aged" to look more authentic than this piece does. The pitting is very, very easy to fake. And the waviness only means that they did a bad job of grinding... you see the same thing in all of the cheap $20 decorator swords from Pakistan. If anything, the waviness makes it seem more likely to be closer to modern made than anything (though that alone isn't proof).
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Based on the description and the other items the seller is selling, I suspect the seller is pretty ignorant of medieval weapons, so it is easy for him to believe that this sword is from the 14th century. The more I look at it, though, the more I think it's a 20th century piece at the earliest. That blade looks like junk, but at least the maker got the overall proportions right. I don't think it's a "fake", per se, and I do think it's probably "antique" in the sense that it might be about a hundred years old. I just don't buy for a second that it's what the seller thinks it is.
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Yeah, the more I looked at it, the more suspicious I got. The guard doesn't look historical to me, but I didn't want to dismiss it outright since there's a lot out there I haven't seen. The blade's geometry looks pretty poor, as does the grinding.
It could be a theater prop, but I don't think they'd have taken the time to put the crescents on if that was its intended use, since it wouldn't be visible from the audience. It could just be a repro.
Who knows, it could be a Victorian or 20th century repro that got thrown in a shed for a few decades.
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I was hoping you'd see this, Bill. So, I asked him specifically where it came from. He advertises it as a Type XIV based off of Oakeshott's typology only this blade doesn't fit the profile...it is a good deal longer and more slender than the "run-of-the-mill" XIV; the sword he references on page 123 that is supposed to be of the same make as his has a blade that is 6 inches shorter, has 4 shallow fullers that are of equal length and no crescent moons anywhere on the blade. Not to mention the pommels are different, as are the crosses...and the hilt's at least 2 inches shorter on the actual XIV than this offering.
Ah well...there is one born every minute, no?
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ya i;m no good at calling stuff. i'd pay 100 bucks for it maybe... just cause it looks cool eheheh but that be about it.
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Ah well...there is one born every minute, no?
I suspect he probably believes what he is saying (or maybe I'm just being neive. :) ), because if you don't already know much about medieval swords, it is easy to not recognize the difference between the different Oakeshott blade types. To me, it's insane to call this a XIV, as it looks nothing like one... but I totally understand how a person who's only flipped through Records of the Medieval Sword once or twice wouldn't really be able to tell the difference.
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Having been one of those people at one point (before I found SFI) I totally understand; which is why I contacted him. If he genuinely believes what he wrote then he'll want to know the truth...if he blesses me out for bothering him well...I'll know my man won't I?
There's nothing wrong with wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt...it costs nothing and fosters camaraderie...I try not to be too jaded but we must face facts, people get beat every day. I still get the occasional email about millions in some off-shore account that I've been chosen to act as broker for...lol
Edited to add: this is good for a laugh. On eBay, I was looking for a decent quality Excalibur replica and came across this one...which was bought from another man who claimed to have acquired it back in the '60s...you decide.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220800406350&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220800406350&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
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Do you know...someone bought the sword for $999.99...2 bids, that was the winner. I hope it turns out to be authentic...but then, authentic does not always equate to 'good' or 'great'.