ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Sir Brian on 2009-09-14, 08:10:41
-
Time to rant!
Bad parents piss me off! I was in armor yesterday and came across a couple of mundane families that had three little bastards with those wooden swords. I was wearing my helm and had seen the three of them approach me, I thought they wanted to check out the armor or pose for a picture. They circled behind me and began to whack me with their swords! I snatched my helm off and told the oldest brat to stop hitting me and then glared at the parents who were at that time trying to put on a good show about being horrified and embarrassed by their little monsters. Since I’m wearing armor they of course didn’t hurt me but the complete lack of respect perpetrated by those heathens completely pissed me off and gives a strong argument for mandatory sterilization. What is worse is I have had more than one moronic parent, usually the father, tell his son to take his wooden sword and challenge the knight! I’ve noticed that occurs specifically at the Maryland Renaissance Faire, gives kind of a validation for that fair’s no weapon policy huh?
Oh and just for reference to all those idiotic types of dads: If your kid continues to hit me after I tell them to stop, I’m going to start hitting that idiotic dad and brother let me tell you that it is a BAD idea to fight bare knuckles with someone wearing steel!
-
Oh man, that's just lovely. That's the thing that really gets me- The parents. Are they stupid? Do they just not care? How can they not realize they're raising their kids to be thugs if they don't set limits?
-
Yep, had one at Charlotte about 8yrs ago go to town on one of my boiled leather greaves with a waster. I think those damn things need to be outlawed from faires. Goes back to the kid in Charlotte
last year stepping on my spur shanks while dad thought it was funny....til I told him I was going to thug HIM if the brat didnt cease and desist. Now you know why some animals eat their young.....
-
Wow, I must be really intimidating or maybe I just have better luck with this. Except for the occasional person asking if they can hit me, I don't really recall ever having this kink of thing happen to me. I have stopped more than one pair or group of kids with those damn wooden swords from swinging them about haphazardly or beating each other with them. I the latter case, I usually only step in when they are swinging them wildly and risk hurting innocent bystanders. If parents want to let their kids beat each other silly I'm all for letting them too. I can almost always get the kids to stop, especially when I offer to teach them basic sword handling. Most kids are thilled to learn how to use a sword from a real knight and when I throw in lessons like when to use the sword and obeying the rules (especially the no fighting on a faire day one) that almost always puts an end to the sword use.
-
I've had kids "attack" me at Halloween (great fun to stomp on the feet of the grim reaper?), but not in armor.
In armor, I've had adults hit my shoulder with their hand or a rolled up program as they walk past. The worst case though was a drunk woman with a baby on her hip who did an open-palm punch to the face of my helm, while I was wearing it. I ripped it off, and she reeled back to do it again, but stopped when she finally noticed I took it off and was giving her a "try it and die" sort of look. Now THAT is a bad parent!
-
I wish this happened/happens to me! I will be going to the texas ren fest in a month or so. My armour is munitions grade and a wooden sword would crack before my armour gave in. I would either do two things... 1. "Take your best shot kid!" and let him bust his sword in half. Or 2. The second time he swings just rip the thing out of their little hands and give it to the parents.
I don't really know what I would do, but parents let their kids control them now - a - days...
-
Yes I've resolved that should it happen again I will take the sword away from the child. If the kid's
dad protests then I'll offer him the chance to "take" it back while I'm tapping it menacingly in my hands,
otherwise I will turn the sword into security and let them worry about it. ;)
-
It's not just kids.
Today a woman wanted to test the functionality of my hauberk and started jamming a stick into my ribcage. I stood there patiently and let her have her way with me. Then she punched my shield very hard with her bare hand.
Her friend then ran up and pulled her off, explaining that she had enjoyed one too many ciders.
::)
-
On a couple of occasions someone would walk up and say "is that real?" while they halfheartedly hit my pauldron or breastplate, and then yelp "ow!!"
Serves them right.
-
I'm ok with folks pounding and beating on armor, to a degree, but you never -ever- try to grab someone's weapon, especially if it isn't peace-tied like in our open demonstrations and events. The attention may be endearing, but I've had to explain to one too many folks, both kids and adults, that to attempt to take a knight's weapon was considered by many to be a mortal offense. The threat of a gauntleted backhand tends to shoo off the kids, a glare for sober adults, but I've had to throw a shoulder check or two on some drunk adults. I've got a squire who can take care of fingerprints, and I know how to clean my own weapons, but hands off the arms.
-
Very good points, Sir James. People sometimes forget that they're deadly weapons. Even if it's blunted as a demo or practice weapon, it doesn't change the fact that it's a properly stored sword on someone's person. It's like reaching for a police officer's gun.
-
Just to comment on this, my home Fair has been the PARen Faire, and maybe I'm just scary but I rarely have had issues with this, touching just does not seem to be as common there. It does happen, someone will want to see if its real, or get a picture taken, but not to the extent you lords describe it.
Then this year I mentioned going to the MDRen Faire and a couple of by brethren made a point to tell me to expect more "touchy" there, all based on their experience. Now I must say that I love the MDRF and its far above most Faires, my experience was awesome BUT I did notice a bit more of this and some bad behavior from children and parents. I was challenged a few times with wooden sticks, and had several people think about touching and a few actually do it, so I do agree with Sir Brian on this.
I don't know why this is, its not the MDRF in any way, its one of the most enjoyable Faires to be sure. Maybe its the lack of weapons? (that could be good judging on what I have seen with sticks) Maybe that makes us look a bit scarier? In any event parents should know better regardless of setting or what someone looks like- kids should have respect for others and not do anything that they would not want done to them. But I think Sir Brian hit the nail on the head with the parents being to blame here.
-
I think that has a lot to do with it-- the lack of weapons. People are more comfortable and more responsible with them through exposure. In an environment that lacks them, people are less... how shall we say... savvy?
-
I do agree with that, in fact I have worn a braodsword for two seasons and know excatly how to wear it, how it sticks out and how to do just about anything wearing in in any garb, from full plate to a Kilt. But this year, for a Pirate weekend, I wanted a more pirate look, so I bought a rapier, andit was almost 6" longer than my broadsword. I found that I had to be extra careful turning, sitting, and whatever to allow for the extra length and not inconvienience anyone. So experience does make one better at carrying weapons.
As a comment- since most Faires do sell beverages and weapons, and there tend to be, lets say new initiates to our world, buying them and enjoying malts. They can often act with far less than rational thinking, last season I had one such patron, dressed in his best "I slept in this for the last five days" dorm wear, come up to me and thump my armor with his newly aquired battle axe...all wrapped up in tape and cardboard. So although I enjoy browsing the merchent's wares, and certainly don't want to ban weapons, as I think it completes the look, I do like the fact that a security guard saw this incident and removed the axe from my young friend to be pick up on exit I'm sure.
So here's a plug- the security guards at the PARen Faire are first notch, I always thank them for the work they do, many have been in cast and love the Faire, and they keep it well in hand. So kudos to them. Its also one of the reason's the ticket prices are higher, but it keeps everything running smoothly. :)
-
Stormdelver, PaRF is also my home faire and I agree completely that the security there is top notch. I have had lengthy discussions with them and have found most of them to be very level-headed and fair, not something particularly common with people in there jobs. I must say that in all the years of going, I have never once been hit by someone with a real weapon, albight wrapped up. That would certainly make me very unhappy, getting hit with the wooden weapons is enough insult. I also find that MdRF has far more touchy people, I went in the armor for the first time there this season and found that I had alot more people wanting to touch it. Perhaps you are on to something with the lack of weaponry. I don't mind patrons touching my garb and equipment, so long as they ask and are polite about it. That is much of the reason why I wear and carry what I do. My intention is to actively engage them in learning about the period, so I attempt to carry period acurate weapons and equipment. By allowing the patrons to touch and examine what I carry I make it more real to them and hopefully recruite some younger ones to eventually join in the fun. I am always carefull to point out that the weapons I carry are real and are still dangerouse, even if they are obsolete.
-
To be faire (pun intended), MD isn't crawling with drunken idiots, bad security, or terrible kids. But after going more weekends than not, and wearing armor for many of them, eventually you accumulate stories of bad incidents.
So far I haven't been attacked by kids with wooden swords, though I've been whacked accidentally once or twice. I've had more problems with drunken adults, though thankfully that's been infrequent as well. The worst case (I know I've mentioned it before) was the drunken woman with a baby on her hip who did an open-palm punch to my face. Thankfully she didn't know what she was doing, because all it did was rotate the helm on my head without smashing my nose in. Other than that, it's been the occasional "is that real?" followed by a fist-strike on my pauldron, or a drive-by hit with a rolled up program, or something along those lines.
Forgive me if I've repeated myself. :)
-
Milords,
I must say I have found this discussion somewhat amazing, for the simple reason that we have not had problems with this issue. Dame Dagrny and I were discussing it the other night and we came to the following conclusion; since we also act as Security at our Events we tend to maintain an area of awareness about our persons. Anyone coming toward us or within 10 feet our "guard" naturally goes up, we can only suppose our vigilance and demeanor has prevented these occurrences.
That being said I did have two amusing (for me, not them) instances some years ago. First a young lad, about 12 years old charged toward me with a toy sword brandished, I made no move to avoid him until he was close enough to disarm. Having done so he stood in shocked amazement, smiled broadly and said; “do it again”! The second was an adult who came up behind me unseen and grasped my sword hilt, I acted without thought and he found himself unhurt but face down upon the ground with his right arm pinned in an arm lock. He did apologize at that point, repeatedly.
I am at your service,
Sir Blackwolf
-
Of course Madmanpsu, we know each other, I wish you every blessing this holiday season, may you always find the sun on your face, friends at your back, and victory on the wind.
-
Stormdelver,
I whole heartedly return the blessings to you! If you are wondering what to get me, a nice Burgeonet would be good, but I'll settle for a Morion. ;)
-
I'm ok with folks pounding and beating on armor, to a degree, but you never -ever- try to grab someone's weapon, especially if it isn't peace-tied like in our open demonstrations and events. The attention may be endearing, but I've had to explain to one too many folks, both kids and adults, that to attempt to take a knight's weapon was considered by many to be a mortal offense. The threat of a gauntleted backhand tends to shoo off the kids, a glare for sober adults, but I've had to throw a shoulder check or two on some drunk adults. I've got a squire who can take care of fingerprints, and I know how to clean my own weapons, but hands off the arms.
Yeah I can Put a real shine on steel too.
-
To be faire (pun intended), MD isn't crawling with drunken idiots, bad security, or terrible kids. But after going more weekends than not, and wearing armor for many of them, eventually you accumulate stories of bad incidents.
So far I haven't been attacked by kids with wooden swords, though I've been whacked accidentally once or twice. I've had more problems with drunken adults, though thankfully that's been infrequent as well. The worst case (I know I've mentioned it before) was the drunken woman with a baby on her hip who did an open-palm punch to my face. Thankfully she didn't know what she was doing, because all it did was rotate the helm on my head without smashing my nose in. Other than that, it's been the occasional "is that real?" followed by a fist-strike on my pauldron, or a drive-by hit with a rolled up program, or something along those lines.
Forgive me if I've repeated myself. :)
Heh no need to apologize, I love that story...Reminds me of what happens to those more shabby and baser women rejects from the Jerry Springer show! ;)
-
I've never been hit, but I walk around with a forbidding look most of the time...I don't mean to, its just how my face is laid out. Unless I see someone I know, or something I like. It serves its purpose because people generally leave me well enough alone; although I do enjoy the kids running up eagerly, wanting to touch the armor, ask me questions, that sort of thing. I don't recall ever encountering belligerent children (or adults for that matter) but that may be just my luck. I'm an advocate of taking a weapon from someone else's hands as a means of ending whatever madness is going on...take it and hit the offending parent with it, see how they like it.
Bad parents suck.
-
Well yesterday I had three younglings brandish their wooden swords at me and one exclaimed that they wanted to challenge me. I politely smiled and told them:
“You’ll only end up breaking your swords on my armor lads”
and then I turned back to the conversation I was having with some friends as way of dismissal. This tactic worked wonders as it gave them food for thought that they would be without their cool toy souvenir swords.
…Of course I’m glad I didn’t have to elaborate to them that I had fully intended to TAKE the swords from them and break them over an armored knee if they DID hit me. Some things are just better left unsaid! ;)
-
Yeah, any time you're in armor, there's always the chance of someone (children, teens, or adults) getting stupid around you. But I find that it amplifies when you're in plate armor. When I'm in the mail, most of the interactions I get are the good kind, with kids being fascinated and the parents wanting pictures, etc. In plate armor, the drunks come out of the woodwork.
I wore my plate armor on Saturday this past weekend, and I had several groups of drunks approach me. One of the groups was irritating, doing things like grabbing the pauldron and flapping it up and down, saying "does this annoy you?" Another drunk guy dressed as a fairy (yes, you read that right) came running and jumped onto me. After my lady gave him a stern talking-to, he apologized.
I was talking to one of our faire friends later in the afternoon, and a guy came up and asked if it would be OK to hit the armor. If they ask, I don't mind it as much... but we both said to the guy "I don't think that's a good idea", and he proceeded to hit my breast plate anyway. He shook his hand off (clearly it stung), and get this... he then head-butted the breast-plate. He said "Ow! That hurt!" and walked away... We just shook our heads in amazement and said "what a dumb-ass".
I did have one "good" set of drunks approach me though. They were clearly wasted, but they were just amazed at the armor and genuinely wanted to know more about it, and asked good questions! Like, real and coherent questions... along the lines of what kind of rivets are in it, what gauge is the steel, total weight, questions about mobility, where do you get it, etc.
What a day. :)
Photo from Saturday:
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2010/faire/b1667.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2010/faire/b1667b.jpg)
-
I've been following this thread for a while now, and I have to say I'm shocked at the amount of drunks wandering around what I am assuming to be the MDRF! I've been going to faires for years (Indiana, Ohio, and now St. Louis http://www.renstl.org/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60&Itemid=95 (http://www.renstl.org/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60&Itemid=95)) and have never seen people staggering around, accosting other patrons, or getting crazy in the parking lot afterward. I know those faires are not as big as the MDRF, but they aren't exactly small events either. Is this an isolated problem, or have I just been fortunate? The faires I've mentioned are all pretty kid-friendly as well. Is it just that the MDRF is geared more for grownups?
-
You know, it's kinda hard to say. I see more of this at MDRF than anywhere else, for sure. But it's also the one I go to the most, so I don't know how much that factors in.
MDRF is the only one I can recall that I've been to that bans weapons altogether (most just require peace-tie). We keep hearing stories about people drawing steel on a cast member, or swinging sharp swords around in the parking lot, etc. But the drunks are the one part that's easy to witness for yourself. MDRF is the only place I've seen them fall over unconscious.
But don't get me wrong, it's definitely meant to be a family show. I just think there's a higher proportion of people who get stupid with a beer in them, and more parents who don't watch their kids.
-
I had a college aged young "lady" at Charlotte last year who was clearly with a group who were ALL intoxicated and dared her to "ride" my scabbard. She was kind of shocked when my wife and I spun on her and my wife told her it was gonna feel REALLY good when the edge on that ring-hilt sawed through the leather and into her nether regions...she sobered rather quickly....
-
I agree with some of the others, I think the fact that we're NOT wearing weapons is a tacit invitation to on-lookers that they may approach. Can't say I like that...altho my experiences have all been positive, most of you all have had bad ones too. As for the drunkenness, I think that might occur more as the day winds down and folk have been there for some time. I limit myself to two ales at most, with lots of water in between.
For my part, I do not like to be touched (unless I know you, am familiar with you, etc) so I don't always greet people who presume such intimacy as handling my armor haphazardly with sort of aplomb; I usually find such behavior mildly offensive.
LOL @ ride his scabbard; glad your wife was there to set her straight.
-
I wonder if it's a saturday thing? I just went on sunday, and didn't see any of those problems. I was without armor this year, but next year I'm hoping to have a full harness to wear.
I really wish we were allowed weapons, though. I agree that not having a weapon makes us look like peaceful little tanks that should be thwacked with the wooden swords. :(
-
The good news is that you won't see these things on most days, unless you're in full plate armor on a crowded day. If you're in armor, but not all plate, you'll see it from time to time. If you're just in regular garb, or just "danes" (short for "mundanes"), you can go blissfully unaware most of the time. :) I think a lot of it is how much you stick out and thus attract it.
-
Well said, Sir Edward...I agree.
-
Well here I come with the gamewinner of drunk stories! (I believe I've already told Sir Ed and possibly Sir Brian about this one...)
I was wearing my cuirass for costume day at my high school ( which basically morphed into "lets see who can hit 16g steel the hardest" day) and I was walking to a sheetz, when a drunk comes out of the bar which I was walking by. The man walks up to me, and makes a slurred comment about stupid armour (oh how I love the irony!) and proceeds to give me a full power punch on the medial ridge. His hand actually breaks (my parents are doctors, I could recognize that anywhere) and he then looks at it, and begins to yell in his painful discovery about the effectiveness of plate. The man, yelling all the while, then stumbles into a back alley. I just continued on my way, and never saw the enlightened chap again.
-
Hah, stupid drunk indeed! Wow, it never ceases to amaze me just how stupid some people can get. My feeling is that they already have to be stupid before the alcohol, and that the drinking simply amplified it. It almost makes you feel sorry for them when they hurt themselves like that. Almost. :)
-
Almost, but not quite. He had that coming...he just assaulted that young man, which would he prefer? Charges or a broken hand? He chose the broken hand...probably a better outcome than he deserved. Love it, nonetheless, thanks for sharing, Sir Nathan.
-
No problem, I was wondering weather or not it was applicable to a thread mostly about children, but I figured that (if going by maturity levels) it would be quite on topic.....
And Sir Ed, I would have to agree with you on your theory, since high school seems to be the perfect experiment for it...
The geniuses in high school go about landing punches on the plate like I'm Harry Houdini! And they're (mostly) sober!
I think in that environment, where there are few inhibitions to the stupidity, it makes itself known at all times, But as these people are forced to pretend that they are responsible adults, the stupid learns to hide. However, alcohol brings back the glory days I'm afraid.....
And that is in fact true Paladin, I didn't think about that! He technically did assault me! Well it wasn't very successful, he learned his lesson (hopefully, if not he at least won't be physically able to do that again for a few months....), and I don't know who in Gods name he was, so I'm not gonna make a legal stink :D
-
Sir Nathan, that's good, I wasn't advocating that you should, only that it could've turned out that way, had you been older, more cynical and perhaps more inclined toward the litigous route like a lot of people. LOL
-
Hmmm, I dont know, had I been more cynical, I might still have not made a lawsuit out of sheer amusement.......
and I don't think going toward a more litigious route would be the chivalric thing to do here, the poor guy probably didn't know what he was doing. ;D
-
Well, chivalry and litigation will hardly ever go hand in hand, at least not in the context of today's society. No, I think you did what was best in the end...he had a lesson he'll not soon forget and you were the one to teach it to him. That will probably gall him worse than anything else...that a perceived youngster should be the deliverer of said message- one he should already have known for himself but perhaps forgotten.
You don't mess with a man in armor. It really is that simple. :)
-
Very true. Some of the laws these day completely boggle me!
Ha, if anyone gave him a lesson, it was Allan from MercTailor, he was the one who made the breastplate so frikkin tough. :D
Ha, I think that line, "You don't mess with a man in armor. It really is that simple. :)" needs to be made into a T shirt. Or a surcoat, (and a jupon and tabard variety for the late period knights) so we can wear that with our armour. Keep the smiley too. Gives it character.
-
T-shirt? That'll work for me. lol
-
OK, I feel a Modern Chivalry cafepress shop coming on... lol :)
-
Why not? I mean, maybe not right now, but eventually. I can see it now...faire-goers in the tri-state area will be wanting one of our t-shirts after meeting us! :)
-
hahahaha a pic of a breastplate (like the entire shirt) with the caption, "Yes this will hurt your hand, foot, face if you smash into it" ahhahah
-
"Hitting this could prove bad for your health"
-
"Accost Me At Your Own Risk"
-
SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING. Striking the metal armour present upon this knight's body with any part of your body, has been shown to contribute to High Resistant Metal Poisoning (HRMP). HRMP has common symptoms that include: broken appendages, dizziness, nausea, and beat-downs from pissed off knights.
-
Nice. ;D
-
Love it! :)
-
That was pretty good, Sir Nathan...we might have to have you do ad-copy for the Order! :)
-
I'm game! ;D