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Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Vincent on 2014-07-18, 19:54:40
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Hello, Gentlemen!
I've been busy working on further research into the Orders, and the Hospitallers have currently taken a solid spot as what I would like to base my SCA persona in, along with increasing my understanding of the entirety of the period of time the Order has existed, at least until perhaps just after their final moving to Malta.
Currently working on a few quandaries, and was hoping some of you may have resources to suggest my attention be focused towards. Currently, I'm looking to learn more about their time as the Knights of Rhodes. Most of what I've found indicates that they changed their colors to red and white from their original black and white. I like this period, primarily because it really expands the options of armors available to warriors, specifically coat of plates and the Churburg styles spring to mind by this point.
What I'm curious about is if they still considered themselves the sort of 'hybrid' monk/warrior for Christ at this point. There's plenty of pictures of Knights of Rhodes that I've found with the red tabards and white crosses, but I haven't found any 'monk'-style robes. Most of what I've found pointed to them transitioning towards being a more militant order rather than a hospital focused one, but I would think the break-down of the Order would remain similar (Knights, Ecclesiastic Monks, Lay-brothers).
Just trying to learn and brainstorm as I go. Thanks in advance for your replies!
-Vincent
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Good choice Vincent. I say this because we all seem to have a personal choice in our Crusader personas and we are lacking Hospitalliers. Would be nice to see more taking on their mantle in our group. We have plenty of Templars and Teutonics.
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Thank you, Lord Dane!
Crusade-era seems to be a common pick for the Religious Orders (at least, from what I've seen and been told from some of the people in my local group), and I wanted to deviate a little bit by going a little farther along in the general timeline.
It was the Sieges of Rhodes that really won me over, to be completely honest, so running with that sort of timeline (roughly 1480s-1522?).
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Good choice Vincent. I say this because we all seem to have a personal choice in our Crusader personas and we are lacking Hospitalliers. Would be nice to see more taking on their mantle in our group. We have plenty of Templars and Teutonics.
I would definitely agree with you in that we need more hospitalers...
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I for one am working on a Hospitaller kit. It seems the Templars are overrated. That and black is an awesome color.
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I for one am working on a Hospitaller kit. It seems the Templars are overrated. That and black is an awesome color.
According to whom?
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I for one am working on a Hospitaller kit. It seems the Templars are overrated. That and black is an awesome color.
Did you mean over-done, perhaps? Overrated has a tad more of a negative connotation... I've heard Templars are indeed a popular choice, but was trying to pick something that hasn't been done all that much, and I figure the Hospitallers were a good pick, especially at this period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Rhodes_(1480) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Rhodes_(1480))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Rhodes_(1522) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Rhodes_(1522))
At this point, they're red with a white cross, though I do agree I like the original color scheme better. I'm a Black Templar player in Warhammer 40k, so...yeah haha.
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No I meant overrated. While they are over-represented, they are overrated in that everyone thinks they're the greatest thing God put on this earth.
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That's just a personal opinion, I wondered if you had something to back that up with. Most people who think that way know nothing of the history, but that hardly detracts from the Order itself- at least not for those w/a historian's interest in the matter.
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No I meant overrated. While they are over-represented, they are overrated in that everyone thinks they're the greatest thing God put on this earth.
I don't know about overrated, most people I meet Either don't know what they are, or hate them. They are always so associated with conspiracy's, And people my age think that the assassin creed's games are pretty accurate representation of the Templars.
Me with a Templar kit myself and researcher of the the Templar History try to get that kind of mindset out of peoples heads. I don't praise them, But I do try to make them look better than people most people think.
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No I meant overrated. While they are over-represented, they are overrated in that everyone thinks they're the greatest thing God put on this earth.
DEUS VULT!!!!
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I think this is a good choice. The Templar group I believe is the largest. The Tuetonic is beginning to become quite large itself. Well, at least the reenacters part of it, since it is still an active order to this day. It would be cool to see some more Hospitallers out there.
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The Order itself isn't so bad (except for the fact that they're heretical sodomites. BURN THEM!!!). I think their overall rule was good and they're role in the Crusades was anything but insignificant. But when people think Holy Orders, they think first of the Templars as that Order has gotten the most attention. In history circles, you have people claiming them to be the toughest, meanest, most God-fearing badasses on the siege front. Then you have the crazies who think 1000 year old Templar knights working for Abstergo are controlling the Illuminati while trying to summon ancient aliens in order to find the Holy Grail so they can prevent the end of the world from happening in 2012. Its in many respects similar to the CSA in historical memory. Most people are on the far sides of the spectrum. (Lost Cause HOORAH, They're really about states' rights vs. Terrible, traiterous, slave-holding demons from hell, BURN THEM). Seeing that within the history circles they're (in my most humble and gloriously supreme opinion) considered awesome I warriors, I deduced "overrated". In the public memory (whether good or ill), they overshadow everything else. In retrospect, the Hospitallers have fallen by the wayside. While I try not to be the "hipster historian" (reenacting people before they were cool), I do try to shed some light on more overlooked aspects of history.
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Then you have the crazies who think 1000 year old Templar knights working for Abstergo are controlling the Illuminati while trying to summon ancient aliens in order to find the Holy Grail so they can prevent the end of the world from happening in 2012.
Crazy?? Well, did the world end in 2012? No? You're welcome. ;)
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Shhh, Sir James! You know we aren't supposed to talk about that!
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He's making video game references...lol
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He's making video game references...lol
The video games simply copied reality. ;)
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I don't know a lot about the Crusades. I did a bit of research into the why they started in the first place but honestly I think humanity has gone through a few Crusades even since the one mentioned here began. Humanity does interesting things, sometimes for ideals and sometimes that is simply the excuse.
I don't think you can say any one group is over-rated per se, I am sure some of them honestly believed in what they were doing and why they were there. However I am also sure that others were using the group to put a holy light on theft, murder, and a host of other things that were less savor.
I think the Hospitalers are a fine group to take up kit for. :) Of course this coming from someone who knows little about them. I think it is time for research, oh yes I do. :D
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I think I get what you're saying when you mentioned the theft part and holy part. Every person has his reasons. Many were wrong, especially when the pope told them that they could do anything and be forgiven for their sins if they are to fight in the holy lands. Or I am pretty confident that is the case...
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That was my impression as well, that is another example of one group De-humanizing another. A problem still around today, although thankfully not quite to the same scale in most cases. If I remember correctly it was said that the Pope regretted what he started after it began but couldn't stop it.
Even still, I have no doubt that some Crusaders were honorable men who did the best they could for what they believed in.