ModernChivalry.org
Miscellaneous => The Sallyport => Topic started by: Thorsteinn on 2013-11-30, 18:51:36
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... it proves, yet again, that Mr Clements cannot write an article without bashing someone:
"While I myself have no knowledge of historical footwear construction, I can note that reenactors have no reputation as serious martial arts practitioners. Their opinions on footwear should therefore be suspect, given how much of a pass they have long given to the ubiquitous heavy boots worn by so many enthusiasts claiming authenticity."
http://www.thearma.org/essays/historical-footwear.html (http://www.thearma.org/essays/historical-footwear.html)
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And he, again, makes claims that are false:
"Keep in mind, groups like the notorious Sca, well-known for abysmal footwork in their ahistorical combat sport, have long had a requirement in their fighting rules to wear steel-toed shoes (which actively discourages any need to stand or move correctly)."
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Well, it has a lot of really good pictures, at least.
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He makes a good point in the beginning, and has some nice recommendations in the end, but the middle is sad.
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... it proves, yet again, that Mr Clements cannot write an article without bashing someone:
"While I myself have no knowledge of historical footwear construction, I can note that reenactors have no reputation as serious martial arts practitioners. Their opinions on footwear should therefore be suspect, given how much of a pass they have long given to the ubiquitous heavy boots worn by so many enthusiasts claiming authenticity."
http://www.thearma.org/essays/historical-footwear.html (http://www.thearma.org/essays/historical-footwear.html)
I didn't see a date on this article. I'd be interested in knowing when he wrote it. But obviously that quote is all kinds of full of sh**. I can name plenty of reenactors that wear very period correct footwear and are simultaneously very proficient in HEMA. Some of whom even have very reputable published works on both HEMA and Living History.
And he, again, makes claims that are false:
"Keep in mind, groups like the notorious Sca, well-known for abysmal footwork in their ahistorical combat sport, have long had a requirement in their fighting rules to wear steel-toed shoes (which actively discourages any need to stand or move correctly)."
I'm not trying to be antagonistic but what's false about this particular statement? Does the SCA not require steel-toed shoes, I have no idea? But the footwork is surely not what is in any sort of fighting treatise, because John is right that SCA fighting is an ahistorical combat sport. That gets people's panties in a bunch for some reason, but it was never meant to be historical. That however doesn't make it an invalid sport.
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Never has required Steel-toed footwear. Never will. Some wear it in the SCA, but then some people jog in them too.
Combatants should wear footwear that provides adequate protection and support for the terrain and activity of combat.
Point being that if you make such claim's like:
"SCA, well-known for abysmal footwork in their ahistorical combat sport,have long had a requirement in their fighting rules to wear steel-toed shoes"
&
"I can note that reenactors have no reputation as serious martial arts practitioners. Their opinions on footwear should therefore be suspect"
that are so easily proved false then it cast's poor light upon the rest of your work especially if you have something good to contribute, which this article does actually have (i.e.: TKD shoes for fighting).
I wear period footwear (minus the 1/8" vibram sole) for the last several years and love it. I know lots of folks in the SCA that do that, and have for 20+ years. The most we've ever required is that the footwear be sturdy & support the ankle (IE not be something to CAUSE a foot issue), but that was a user's call.
As to the SCA Footwork: I would like to see his proof on that. Not the avg fighter, or the beginner, but show me a good, well rounded fighter, and say "His footwork is atrocious and here is why...".
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I wear period footwear (minus the 1/8" vibram sole) for the last several years and love it. I know lots of folks in the SCA that do that, and have for 20+ years. The most we've ever required is that the footwear be sturdy & support the ankle (IE not be something to CAUSE a foot issue), but that was a user's call.
As to the SCA Footwork: I would like to see his proof on that. Not the avg fighter, or the beginner, but show me a good, well rounded fighter, and say "His footwork is atrocious and here is why...".
I would argue that you don't need ankle support if you train in proper period footwear because your body will learn to support itself as it was intended to do. This is also reflected in the modern approach to running as a lot of people are moving away from typical running shoes and going to a barefoot approach to actually allow your body to do what it was designed to do. I did that myself and it solved all my knee issues.
That aside, I don't think that a good SCA fighter has bad footwork. They have good footwork, for their sport. It's just different from what we see in historical fighting treatises. That's not a bad thing, it's just different. But JC will always have disdain for the SCA and reenactors. That's partially why we encouraged ARMA's participation in Days of Knights, to hopefully help change their perspective on what serious reenactors are doing with HEMA. I know it definitely had a huge effect on the individuals who attended. I personally had a long discussion with their deputy director at DoK and I think we really opened his eyes to how reenactment and HEMA can really complement each other when done with respect for the historical source material. Hopefully it will spread and they'll be more open to other's ideas and erase some of the misconceptions surrounding reenactors.
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I wear period footwear (minus the 1/8" vibram sole) for the last several years and love it. I know lots of folks in the SCA that do that, and have for 20+ years. The most we've ever required is that the footwear be sturdy & support the ankle (IE not be something to CAUSE a foot issue), but that was a user's call.
As to the SCA Footwork: I would like to see his proof on that. Not the avg fighter, or the beginner, but show me a good, well rounded fighter, and say "His footwork is atrocious and here is why...".
I would argue that you don't need ankle support if you train in proper period footwear because your body will learn to support itself as it was intended to do. This is also reflected in the modern approach to running as a lot of people are moving away from typical running shoes and going to a barefoot approach to actually allow your body to do what it was designed to do. I did that myself and it solved all my knee issues.
That aside, I don't think that a good SCA fighter has bad footwork. They have good footwork, for their sport. It's just different from what we see in historical fighting treatises. That's not a bad thing, it's just different. But JC will always have disdain for the SCA and reenactors. That's partially why we encouraged ARMA's participation in Days of Knights, to hopefully help change their perspective on what serious reenactors are doing with HEMA. I know it definitely had a huge effect on the individuals who attended. I personally had a long discussion with their deputy director at DoK and I think we really opened his eyes to how reenactment and HEMA can really complement each other when done with respect for the historical source material. Hopefully it will spread and they'll be more open to other's ideas and erase some of the misconceptions surrounding reenactors.
Bolding mine - Sir Ian said exactly what I was going to. Being "effective" and being "historical" are not always in line with each other. Good SCA footwork is not even designed to correlate to historical footwork; you can't target the knee or lower leg in SCA, so there is no reason to defend it. It has magical protection. In a historical sword fight, one good shot to the shin or knee and you're on the ground quickly - so you NEED to mind the footwork and where your legs are.
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But JC will always have disdain for the SCA and reenactors. That's partially why we encouraged ARMA's participation in Days of Knights, to hopefully help change their perspective on what serious reenactors are doing with HEMA. I know it definitely had a huge effect on the individuals who attended. I personally had a long discussion with their deputy director at DoK and I think we really opened his eyes to how reenactment and HEMA can really complement each other when done with respect for the historical source material. Hopefully it will spread and they'll be more open to other's ideas and erase some of the misconceptions surrounding reenactors.
This is excellent. I would be very pleased if more of their people would cooperate with the larger community rather than hide away just because of JC's opinions.