ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Courtyard => Topic started by: Sir Edward on 2010-11-17, 14:57:41
-
Registration is now open:
http://fightlongpoint.com/ (http://fightlongpoint.com/)
The event is on the weekend of January 22-23, 2011 (only a few months away). Last year it was one day, but it's expanded to two this year. Last year it was a blast.
This sort of event is equally fun and educational for both beginners and more advanced students, since they usually gear the classes to appeal broadly. They'll focus on certain techniques in depth, so it can enhance your understanding of that particular move, or introduce you to it for the first time.
Last year the tournament had all ranges of skill levels. We watched some of the instructors fight each other, but also some relative beginners pair up for bouts as well.
The instructors are from all over the area, representing VAF, MKDF, MASHS, NYHFA, NOVA Assaulto, and MEMAG, to name a few.
I definitely encourage folks here to go if they can spare a weekend and $89 (though you might also want to get some gear if you don't have it, at the very least a plastic longsword waster).
-
Whoa...this is right up our alley, knights. Who's going?
-
I signed up right after writing that message. :)
-
LOL
That's good news...I set it up on my calendar to make my registration on 12/10. This'll be my first time ever attending an event of this nature, so I'm nervous and excited too.
-
I get nervous going to new events too. :)
But truthfully, the WMA/HEMA folks I've met have all been great people. If you come in with enthusiasm and just want to learn, you don't need to worry at all about being a beginner. It's a very welcoming and accepting bunch.
-
Well I'm as wet-behind-the-ears as one can get and still have a love for 'this thing of ours'; I look forward to going!
-
Larry at MASHS mentioned this on Sunday's class. I won't be able to make the Saturday event due to work - Got to pay off all my recent purchases somehow! :P
I hope to maybe make it as a spectator for the Sunday tournaments though! :)
-
Awesome, it'll be a blast even as a spectator. Kat mentioned she might try to come and watch at some point too. I think I met Larry last year. If I recall correctly, he was the one who walked up and said "I want to shake your hand. That was some great balance out there!" or something along those lines. It was a huge compliment, I thought. I just hope I can live up to it. :)
-
I doubt I can even be a spectator...unless its free, then I probably can do that. lol
-
I think I need to shop for some good elbow and knee pads before Longpoint. Any recommendations?
-
If you're looking to do a cost-effective option, hockey/skating pads will most likely suffice. I was looking for a link to a guy who does really good sparring gear, but can't remember what the name of his link was.
-
There might be some good rollerblading pads out there too. I'll have to see what I can find.
-
I think I need to shop for some good elbow and knee pads before Longpoint. Any recommendations?
I'm not sure what the exact protective rules are, but I saw some kneepads that would probably also double as elbow pads at Home Depot that were pads with a solid plastic plate on them. It was months ago but I think it was in the flooring section? And they were under $10 a pair.
-
Probably bricklayer's knees...a buddy of mine who lays concrete wears'm, can't do his job w/out them. There is a difference between kneeling and taking blows though...don't know how they'd hold up to them.
-
trying to see if i can come for a spectator for the event. the family has other obligations that weekend so i might have to go with them.
what time is the tournies?
-
what time is the tournies?
I don't think they know yet.
-
trying to see if i can come for a spectator for the event. the family has other obligations that weekend so i might have to go with them. what time is the tournies?
Cool I’ll be going as a spectator as well, I hope to see you there Sir Wolf! Maybe we can sit together and cheer our fellow forumites on…Although I don’t think we’ll have enough people to do the wave. :D
-
I'll need all the cheering I can get. I'm pretty out of shape now. :) Still, I don't play to win. I play to practice and improve, and have fun.
-
I'll need all the cheering I can get. I'm pretty out of shape now. :) Still, I don't play to win. I play to practice and improve, and have fun.
You should find time to work with David and Tim. They're competing, and they've been practicing quite a bit. Not just bouting, but working on specific actions that will probably come up in the tournament, and working on conditioning as well. I'll bet they'd come on any extra days, including the weekend, if you talked to them about it.
-
I'm going to attempt to make it out saturday or sunday as spectator, but it's ~90 minutes one way from my house, so 9am isn't likely. :o
I doubt I can even be a spectator...unless its free, then I probably can do that. lol
It's $5 for spectators ... if you can get there, I'll cover you.
-
humph. not looking good. Autumn has a make up dance class that day as well as her lil cousin's birthday party that night. :(
-
You should find time to work with David and Tim. They're competing, and they've been practicing quite a bit. Not just bouting, but working on specific actions that will probably come up in the tournament, and working on conditioning as well. I'll bet they'd come on any extra days, including the weekend, if you talked to them about it.
That sounds great, though I don't know how much time I'll have between now and then. It's coming up pretty fast.
As long as I don't make a fool of myself, I'll be happy. :)
-
I'm going to attempt to make it out saturday or sunday as spectator, but it's ~90 minutes one way from my house, so 9am isn't likely. :o
I doubt I can even be a spectator...unless its free, then I probably can do that. lol
It's $5 for spectators ... if you can get there, I'll cover you.
Thanks Sir James, I'm much obliged...when's it occurring? If I'm in town, I'd love to drop by and see what you guys are up to. Plus, always good to meet brother Knights when one can.
-
Thanks Sir James, I'm much obliged...when's it occurring? If I'm in town, I'd love to drop by and see what you guys are up to. Plus, always good to meet brother Knights when one can.
http://fightlongpoint.com/ (http://fightlongpoint.com/)
Weekend of January 22-23.
-
I'm going to attempt to make it out saturday or sunday as spectator, but it's ~90 minutes one way from my house, so 9am isn't likely. :o
I doubt I can even be a spectator...unless its free, then I probably can do that. lol
It's $5 for spectators ... if you can get there, I'll cover you.
Thanks Sir James, I'm much obliged...when's it occurring? If I'm in town, I'd love to drop by and see what you guys are up to. Plus, always good to meet brother Knights when one can.
I'll be shooting to attend on Saturday, so that I can rest a bit on Sunday. The 3 hour round trip drive may be a bit coma-inducing, since my round-trip commute is 2 hours on a good day with no traffic (approx 100 miles). I'll post if I am unable to make it Saturday.
-
Excellent! I'll be there on Sunday morning around 0930 - 1000, I probably won't be wearing green though! :D
-
Think I might ride up on Saturday...Sundays usually a day of rest for the Paladin household. :)
-
Longpoint's schedule is up: http://fightlongpoint.com/?page_id=12 (http://fightlongpoint.com/?page_id=12)
It looks like the tournaments are early both days, with afternoon classes. I'm not doing the dussack tournament, so I'm actually not directly involved in anything until 11am on Saturday, but I'll still try to get there during the actual registration time and watch (and hang out and socialize, etc).
I still haven't decided which classes I want to take. Sometimes it's nice to try something new. Other times it's nice to do what you're familiar with, but with other instructors who have a different approach or interpretation. I'm signed up for Mike Edelson's test cutting class, but I don't see it on the schedule.
-
I don't see the cutting portion on the schedule; is it possible to take just the cutting class, but spectate for the rest of the event?
-
I don't see the cutting portion on the schedule; is it possible to take just the cutting class, but spectate for the rest of the event?
You know, I have no idea. I suspect they're treating that as an add on, since the additional costs are for materials. I think the rest of the event cost is needed for renting the facility.
Many of the classes will work well for beginners. You could always sign up for the whole thing. :)
-
I don't see the cutting portion on the schedule; is it possible to take just the cutting class, but spectate for the rest of the event?
You know, I have no idea. I suspect they're treating that as an add on, since the additional costs are for materials. I think the rest of the event cost is needed for renting the facility.
Many of the classes will work well for beginners. You could always sign up for the whole thing. :)
I may have a shot at the next one, but I don't have any gear for this one and I'm not sure if my wife would want to go or want me gone for the whole weekend. It was definitely under consideration. For this one, I'd just like to watch and put a few faces to the names from here. :)
-
The schedule has been completely rearranged, so for those planning to come and watch the tournament, you might want to look at the new times:
http://fightlongpoint.com/?page_id=12 (http://fightlongpoint.com/?page_id=12)
-
Day 1 is over, and congratulations need to go out to David Rowe of VAF, who won 2nd place in the Dussack tournament! Lee Smith gave him a run for his money, and the two duked it out in the last bout, with Lee just barely getting the necessary hit to take 1st place. It was a very intense match, and I have to say I'm very proud of David.
I'm about to go to bed, but Sunday is Day 2, when we find out who made it into the finals of the longsword tournament, which will then be fought in the morning.
-
Yeah Ed gave me a rundown of some of the tournament action. It's a bummer some contestants were more concerned with scoring a hit than their technique, which is really one of the major drawbacks to tournaments IMO. I think they are fantastic as you get to bout with opponents you don't typically see or fight against but again so long as they are more concerned with executing the correct technique. :-\
-
And Day 2 is over.
It's a bummer some contestants were more concerned with scoring a hit than their technique, which is really one of the major drawbacks to tournaments IMO. I think they are fantastic as you get to bout with opponents you don't typically see or fight against but again so long as they are more concerned with executing the correct technique. :-\
You're absolutely right, and to be honest, that will happen in any tournament format. People get competitive, and they start playing to the rules to gain points rather than focusing on techniques that would be used if your life were really on the line. Having said that, I saw less of that than usual, and I think there was also some really good fencing going on (though some guys REALLY need to dial down the power).
Still, all in all, this was a really good event. I used to be one of the people who didn't like big tournaments due to the gamesmanship factor, but I'm starting to come around. :)
-
You're absolutely right, and to be honest, that will happen in any tournament format. People get competitive, and they start playing to the rules to gain points rather than focusing on techniques that would be used if your life were really on the line. Having said that, I saw less of that than usual, and I think there was also some really good fencing going on (though some guys REALLY need to dial down the power).
I think there was less of it in the ring you were judging. :) All in all, it was great fun. I wasn't playing for points, so I knew I'd do badly on the score. But the judges didn't start counting doubles and after-blows in my bouts until maybe my 4th bout. They'd go for quick sniping shots without controlling the line, so I'd just hit them back, and lose. :-\ At least that's the way I remember it. I'll have to see the videos. Admittedly some of those were some messy binds. I doubt it would have made much of a difference since I was playing to have fun and they were playing for points, I just would have liked to have had the chance to have more exchanges where they couldn't get away with a snipe that didn't close the line. Once they started actually counting the doubles, I scored a few points, finally, since they weren't getting away with it anymore.
I agree completely about the power. In fact, I wanted to raise a concern with it. I'm starting to feel that they should disallow hand-strikes completely. I hate adding artificial rules to restrict target area, especially with valid historical techniques that involved shots to the hand, and I don't want to encourage people to over-expose their hands either. But I think it's very difficult to adequately pad the hands under these conditions with the power ramped up. I feel like I saw way too many hand injuries this weekend. David took a shot to his knuckle that swelled up. Chris Wheeler had a purple fingertip. The dude in the finals this morning who had to go to the hospital with a crushed fingertip. And I think I saw at least one or two other people with ice-packs on their hands. I received a half-inch blood blister from a shot that squarely hit the padding of my glove just fine. And Mike Edelson apparently took some sort of hit too (I just know I had to shake hands with him with left hands). To me, this indicates a problem, especially since we all need our hands in our day jobs.
Oh, I was also wondering... when did the idea of saluting each other go away?
I don't want to sound like I'm complaining. It was a fun event, and there will of course always be rough corners to iron out over time with this sort of thing. I hope everyone else had a blast, because I certainly did. :)
-
I went to spectate, but ended up signing up for classes. I took the beginner's longsword in the morning, and cutting class after lunch. I think I was the only one in the afternoon cutting class that got 3 clean strikes through the full tatami mat - I kept a piece of it as a keepsake.
The tournament was interesting and even though I don't have a great, or even good, understanding of most longsword techniques, it seemed like there were almost no counters. Hopefully the videos will be posted to Youtube.
Overall, it was a really fun event. I got to meet some new people and I had a great time. Unfortunately, handling that sharp albion for the cutting class has really spoiled me. I don't look at my swords the same now.
It sounds like the tournament got a bit more aggressive on the second day. I wonder if steel gauntlets should be a requirement, rather than just padded gloves? There will always be someone hitting too hard, but if they're told they hit too hard and keep doing it ... they should probably be removed from that tourney as a safety liability.
Sir Brian, did you make it out Sunday to watch?
-
I just wanted to add a few thoughts. I realize my previous post sounded a bit negative. It was an excellent event overall. Some highlights:
* They kept the tournaments flowing quickly and smoothly. There was some confusion at times as to who was up and when, but only momentarily and combatants were almost always ready immediately, and things kept moving smoothly.
* David (from VAF) ROCKED the dussack tournament. He only narrowly lost the 1st place position, but he held the "king" position for a crazy amount of time. It was amazing to behold.
* I got to meet some new people, and I got to see a lot of others that I only see occasionally at events like this. I'd say just about everyone I've ever met at these events are really great people.
* The classes were top-notch, as I've come to expect from these sorts of WMA/HEMA events. For something that started out fairly small last year, this event came together very well and didn't sacrifice any quality when it got to become more elaborate.
* There were a lot of really good fencers in attendance this year. Despite my criticisms of certain aspects of the tournament, it was nice to see a lot of good fighters, good fights, and to be able to participate right along with them.
* And I can't emphasize enough how nice it is to have an event like this that is actually close by. :)
-
Yes I did Sir James and was really pleased to see Bill as well as a few of my fellow MASHS students where three of the four that participated in the tournament made it to the finals. I concur with Bill and Ed with their concerns about the need for some of the contestants needing to ratchet down the power a bit. :-\
And yet the rule that you are automatically disqualified if you injure your opponent to the point they can’t continue seems excessively harsh and unfair since when it was applied during the finals it disqualified Rick Corley after his hit injured the reigning king’s hand and consequently ending his very impressive run of winning 12 consecutive bouts. Nobody could ever accuse Rick Corley of being excessively aggressive or negligent. In fact I had a very strong impression that he was controlling the initiative of the match very well up until that injury when IIRC he would’ve scored his second point to the king’s zero if the guy hadn’t been injured.
Anyways the point I am attempting to make is that the rule although in place for safety’s sake is too restrictive. I would rather they changed so when a person is injured the judges and referee consult and determine if the person inflicting the injury was using excessive power and aggression or if it was just an unfortunate accident, especially those hand injuries. If the judges and referee decide not to disqualify that contestant then they would be given a warning and for the rest of the tournament if they injure anyone else then they are automatically disqualified.
The one cheesy tactic that was used a few times (especially by the tournament champion) and I considered to be totally unsafe yet was completely allowed were those one handed helicopter cuts to the lower legs. One of them hit so hard it echoed! The reason I thought it was really unsafe was because only a couple of fighters was wearing any type of shin protection. Most, even the tournament champion only had stockings on, no padding whatsoever. I remember after the tournament, when everyone was showing their various wounds, one guy had a nasty welt on his calf from one of those cheap cuts. :(
-
Yeah, when it comes to the hand injuries, it's a really tricky matter. Sometimes they're hard to avoid, and sometimes they're more the fault of the person receiving it than the one giving it.
With the disqualification, I had a feeling they'd go through with it since that was the agreed upon rule. The previous day they had let one slide, and I'm glad they did, since it was a twisted knee and not a result of the other fighter's actions.
-
Here is the round 12 video when Rick Corley hit the King's hand. It was a clean attack and obvious he was doing a typical
oberhau and the guy tried to parry way too late. Truly regrettable for both contestants really. :(
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxNs6iA3pRI&feature=related[/youtube]
-
Here is the round 12 video when Rick Corley hit the King's hand. It was a clean attack and obvious he was doing a typical
oberhau and the guy tried to parry way too late. Truly regrettable for both contestants really. :(
Yeah, that really is unfortunate. Looking at it again in the video, it doesn't look like anything crazy happened here. Just unfortunate timing and positioning.
Here are the posted tournament bouts:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=longpoint+2011+tournament&aq=f (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=longpoint+2011+tournament&aq=f)
So far only the dussack and longsword finals are posted, and not the larger longsword (day 1) qualification phase which eliminated half the fighters.
Actually I'm ok if they don't post my bouts. That way I can just work on being better next year without anyone making comparisons. :) (Actually, oddly enough, my bouts almost never get posted online even when they're filmed. Something always happens, like the video is unusable, or gets lost, or whatever)
-
Here is the round 12 video when Rick Corley hit the King's hand. It was a clean attack and obvious he was doing a typical
oberhau and the guy tried to parry way too late. Truly regrettable for both contestants really. :(
That's a shame. It doesn't look like any intent to injure. Hard to see his gloves, especially since they're black, but I wonder how "protective" they were. A straight-on oberhau hit should almost bounce away if he had steel gaunlets; if it wasn't for cost, I wonder if that might become a required gear rule.
-
Here is the round 12 video when Rick Corley hit the King's hand. It was a clean attack and obvious he was doing a typical
oberhau and the guy tried to parry way too late. Truly regrettable for both contestants really. :(
I agree that this seems to be an unfortunate accident. As a non-WMA guy (yet), I'm very surprised by the minimal protective equipment. I've been told that weapon control is key and that, obviously, no one intends to hurt their opponent. This is very evident watching some of the other quality bouts.
I guess I'm just used to the SCA environment where 7.5 foot pole arms are flying all about in a swirling general melee and your hands are guaranteed to be crushed if you're not wearing anachronistic clamshell gauntlets. :(
(edit to add)
Is there another "division" or bracket where the combatants wear period armour?
-
Actually I'm ok if they don't post my bouts. That way I can just work on being better next year without anyone making comparisons. :) (Actually, oddly enough, my bouts almost never get posted online even when they're filmed. Something always happens, like the video is unusable, or gets lost, or whatever)
I hope they do post some or all of your bouts because I think upon review you will see that you didn’t do as badly as you think you did and will get the visual verification that you already know and expressed to me on Saturday in that you did a much better job of controlling the center than being preoccupied with scoring points. :)
That's a shame. It doesn't look like any intent to injure. Hard to see his gloves, especially since they're black, but I wonder how "protective" they were. A straight-on oberhau hit should almost bounce away if he had steel gaunlets; if it wasn't for cost, I wonder if that might become a required gear rule.
I’m pretty sure he was wearing lacrosse type of gloves which I know is fairly decent protection but then again there isn’t truly any sure fire protection unless you don’t let them hit you at all of course which I’m a proven failure at! :D
One down side of steel gauntlets in a tournament setting is the telltale “clang” of a hit, so a judge doesn’t even have to see the hit to know the blade landed on the hands as one particular bout proved out…funny thing was the week before one of the assistant instructors warned the guy of that potentially happening, (he was a MASHS member as well). :-\
Is there another "division" or bracket where the combatants wear period armour?
Hehe, funny you should mention that because Edward and I had the same thought during the tournament! ;)
-
I hope they do post some or all of your bouts because I think upon review you will see that you didn’t do as badly as you think you did and will get the visual verification that you already know and expressed to me on Saturday in that you did a much better job of controlling the center than being preoccupied with scoring points. :)
I hope you're right. The more I try to play it back in my head, the fuzzier it gets, and the more I worry that it'll look like I was just aimlessly flailing the sword around. :) I feel I did better last year. But who knows. :)
I’m pretty sure he was wearing lacrosse type of gloves which I know is fairly decent protection but then again there isn’t truly any sure fire protection unless you don’t let them hit you at all of course which I’m a proven failure at! :D
One down side of steel gauntlets in a tournament setting is the telltale “clang” of a hit, so a judge doesn’t even have to see the hit to know the blade landed on the hands as one particular bout proved out…funny thing was the week before one of the assistant instructors warned the guy of that potentially happening, (he was a MASHS member as well). :-\
Is there another "division" or bracket where the combatants wear period armour?
Yeah, pretty much everyone was using some sort of lacrosse or hockey gloves, with a few exceptions. A handful of people did use steel gauntlets. Steel wasn't outlawed, but it was discouraged over a safety concern for the opponent. These bouts allowed for full grappling in the rules, so it was permitted to wrestle and throw each other over. That's just not as safe when plate armor components are involved.
Some of the HEMA/WMA groups do indeed have armored combat. But armor is more expensive and difficult to get, and also extremely unsafe if you're doing actual armored combat techniques (throws, thrusts into the joints of the armor, etc). The idea here was to do unarmored techniques with relatively easy to get sporting gear for safety.
BTW, some of the photos of the event are getting posted on facebook. I found a couple of good ones of me:
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/longpoint/ed_longpoint_2011_01.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/longpoint/ed_longpoint_2011_01_large.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/longpoint/ed_longpoint_2011_02.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/longpoint/ed_longpoint_2011_02_large.jpg)
-
Is that Das Bill holding those flags? Also, Sir Edward...that's not a solid faceplate is it? I was wondering if it was- how on earth did you see anything?
-
In the video? - Yep. :)
-
Is that Das Bill holding those flags? Also, Sir Edward...that's not a solid faceplate is it? I was wondering if it was- how on earth did you see anything?
Yep, Bill did a lot of judging in the tournaments.
The upper plate is solid, yes, but the seam is just above the eyebrow. The lower plate is about a 50% mesh I think. The upper plate stops you from seeing very far above your opponent's head, but you can see plenty well to see what his sword is up to. :)
EDIT: You can see these here: http://www.thatguysproducts.com/masks.html (http://www.thatguysproducts.com/masks.html)
-
I feel I did better last year. But who knows. :)
Meh, actually I think I did so-so last year based on the only video I know from it. This was me (in the blue) vs Chris Wheeler. My hit on him in the last few seconds was really good, but before that I'm spending too much time waiting. :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kokLS7yV8ag[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kokLS7yV8ag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kokLS7yV8ag)
-
You're a natural counter-striker...I could see it. Once you'd gauged your opponent's next plausible move, you went to stuff it. I think you did well. I'd out-think myself right into a loss, I'm sure. lol
-
As a non-WMA guy (yet), I'm very surprised by the minimal protective equipment.
Well, here's the catch: Most WMA practice is focused on the martial art aspect, with the sport aspect being an auxilary training element. So just like in Japanese martial arts, you don't wear that much protective gear (at least for the unarmoured aspect, that is). However, the tournament thing has been gaining more and more momentum, for better or worse, and I suspect you'll eventually start seeing more people beef up the protective gear, for better or worse. In the tournament, people tend to get a little more competitive than in general free fencing, and the power level definitely goes up several notches.
Is there another "division" or bracket where the combatants wear period armour?
This was the first Longpoint event (not counting last year, which was an informal get together of the greater DC area to have a mini-tournament). So there was only the unarmoured longsword and the dussack. Maybe eventually there will be an armoured tournament, but as Ed said, to do armoured combat right is really, really dangerous. The point of actual armoured combat is to attack where the armour doesn't protect you. When we do any form of free play in armour at VAF, we leave out a lot of techniques. I suspect if an armoured tournament happened, they'd have to rule out even more techniques. This is why it's so important in WMA that we don't completely focus on the sport aspect alone, otherwise we end up with something that is very different from the reality of combat in favor of necessary safety rules.
-
BTW, some of the photos of the event are getting posted on facebook. I found a couple of good ones of me:
(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/longpoint/ed_longpoint_2011_01.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/longpoint/ed_longpoint_2011_01_large.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/longpoint/ed_longpoint_2011_02.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2011/longpoint/ed_longpoint_2011_02_large.jpg)
Wow, those are great shots, Ed!
I'm actually hoping there are vids posted of you because I didn't get to see any of your bouts. I was judging on Ring 2, so I missed everything on Ring 1 where most of the VAF people fought. It's kind of for the best, as I don't want people to think I was biased as a judge.
-
Wow, those are great shots, Ed!
I think it was Ben Michels who took them. They're from his albums.
I'm actually hoping there are vids posted of you because I didn't get to see any of your bouts. I was judging on Ring 2, so I missed everything on Ring 1 where most of the VAF people fought. It's kind of for the best, as I don't want people to think I was biased as a judge.
Yeah, that makes sense that you not judge your own students. My bouts were over very quickly, but once I started watching out for the kinds of tricks they were using, it got a little better later on I think. I wasn't at my best.
-
Yeah, that makes sense that you not judge your own students.
Well, David was in my ring, so I was one of the judges for him. I'm hoping no one thinks I was biased on his, as I certainly did my best to be completely impartial.
My bouts were over very quickly, but once I started watching out for the kinds of tricks they were using, it got a little better later on I think.
Welcome to the world of competitive fencing. It's a game, and a huge amout of that game is figuring out what tricks others are going to play with. That's why so many people have been reluctant to adopt the use of tournaments in WMA. I confess that I used to be more against big tournaments, but I'm coming around. I like how Jake introduced the tournaments and even made a point of saying these are ways of encouraging martial spirit, but are still only a sidebar to martial training. If people keep it in that light, then I like the idea of large tournaments.
-
Well, David was in my ring, so I was one of the judges for him. I'm hoping no one thinks I was biased on his, as I certainly did my best to be completely impartial.
I think you're fine. I doubt anyone would raise an issue there.
Welcome to the world of competitive fencing. It's a game, and a huge amout of that game is figuring out what tricks others are going to play with. That's why so many people have been reluctant to adopt the use of tournaments in WMA. I confess that I used to be more against big tournaments, but I'm coming around. I like how Jake introduced the tournaments and even made a point of saying these are ways of encouraging martial spirit, but are still only a sidebar to martial training. If people keep it in that light, then I like the idea of large tournaments.
Yep, that's always been my hesitation as well. And you guys are right, competitions are inevitable, and this is an opportunity to help steer it in the right direction. I'll probably compete again next year, but I regret not having a chance to do any free play this time. I think organized free play periods would be just as valuable (and combing it with lunch doesn't really work, IMHO).
-
Maybe eventually there will be an armoured tournament, but as Ed said, to do armoured combat right is really, really dangerous. The point of actual armoured combat is to attack where the armour doesn't protect you. When we do any form of free play in armour at VAF, we leave out a lot of techniques. I suspect if an armoured tournament happened, they'd have to rule out even more techniques. This is why it's so important in WMA that we don't completely focus on the sport aspect alone, otherwise we end up with something that is very different from the reality of combat in favor of necessary safety rules.
I would *LOVE* to do some armoured combat. Wouldn't matter to me if it used the same "striking" ruleset as unarmored, in that strikes to almost anywhere are valid "hits" and it wouldn't have everyone trying to go to ground and dagger wrestle. The thrill for me would simply be combat in armor - even if it's similar to SCA combat - but without large shields and "club" swords.
As mentioned, the sounds of swords striking metal would make things quite hard to judge. Then there's the aspect of repairing dents, etc, that gets into a whole other world of muddy mess. It could make for quite the spectator event, though.
-
I think I'm of the same mind as Sir James...
-
Well, you don't have to have a tournament to do armoured combat. :) After all, we do it without tournaments at VAF, as do many WMA groups.
-
I would *LOVE* to do some armoured combat. Wouldn't matter to me if it used the same "striking" ruleset as unarmored, in that strikes to almost anywhere are valid "hits" and it wouldn't have everyone trying to go to ground and dagger wrestle. The thrill for me would simply be combat in armor - even if it's similar to SCA combat - but without large shields and "club" swords.
Truly I have often envisioned that at some future date when our order has grown to the point when we could have gatherings and social events I would love to see us armor up for a tournament. :)
-
Yep, I'm looking forward to hitting all of you with swords. In a nice way, of course. :)
-
Well, I make no promises, but we're talking about the possibility of NHSC next year having the theme of armoured combat. :) But we need to get through this year, first, before any concrete decisions are made!
FYI, this pic is some of us at VAF right after a night of armoured bouting. (We have more people who have armour, they weren't all there that night. We also have people who are working towards getting armour, but for the moment use loaner pieces.)
-
Oh man, that is COOL!