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Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Mike W. on 2014-03-14, 20:25:56
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Does anyone know of a recipe for making a trencher? I was thinking about giving it a try.
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What do you mean by a 'recipe' ? Are we talking about the trencher that's just a piece of stale bread? Or a more permanent solution?
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I don't know about trencher, but I have a Medieval Celebrations book (signed by Mark D. Donnelly :) ) That gives recipes for Parsley and Barley bread if you're interested.
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I'm looking into making one of those stale bread trenchers. I'd imagin the recipe is not unlike 19th century hard tack; flour, water, and a hint of salt shaped into a plate, baked, then set aside for several days to become hard.
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I'm looking into making one of those stale bread trenchers. I'd imagin the recipe is not unlike 19th century hard tack; flour, water, and a hint of salt shaped into a plate, baked, then set aside for several days to become hard.
Well, I'm not certain that those trenchers were made specifically to be trenchers, other than just being normal bread that had gone stale and thrown to the peasants with the other left overs. You might have more success just looking for the recipe for common breads in your chosen time.
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Would that render a surface large enough to eat a meal off of?
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http://www.billyandcharlie.com/misc.html (http://www.billyandcharlie.com/misc.html) i have a trencher form bnc's for later time kit.
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IIRC Trenchers were just bread made into bowls so that you could eat them after the same as we do with Sourdough bowls and chowder today. BTW Sourdough is period.
Oh, and speaking as a Jew. Do not go the Matzo route. You will be happier.
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Would that render a surface large enough to eat a meal off of?
If you make the bread into a boule form, it would- you'd just slice it in half lengthwise and voila, you have two trenchers, count'm two, ah ha ha haaaaa. lol
All kidding aside, any references I've come across w/regard to that simply call it a bread trencher and all it consists of is a thick slice of stale bread so that it'll hold the food and juices w/out falling apart, after which you'd eat it or put it in your sack to eat later.
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I've asked the question to some of the very knowledgeable cooks in La Belle, so I'm waiting to hear back. In the meantime, I did have a discussion about bread crusts while at MTA last weekend, and I was told that crusts then were made very thick and tough, because they basically served as a frame and tray for a dish, and weren't meant to be eaten by gentle folk. At the same time, they're perfectly edible and could be given away as scraps. They were also thick enough that they were used to preserve food. The inside of a thick piece of bread would remain good for weeks, even if the outside grew mold (kind of like the rind on cheese). I'm wondering if a trencher would best be made using a similar technique to these crusts.
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lol i miss rob and sam
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Actually Im thinking about making bread plates for a medieval thing coming up in summer.
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Would that render a surface large enough to eat a meal off of?
You're only limited to the amount of dough that you have available; you can make a loaf as big or as small as you like.
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Yeah I guess. I was trying to imagine an generic-sized loaf of bread, they don't seem like a large surface to eat off of. I guess I'll just make a large loaf.
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From Rob, our very exceptional period cook in La Belle:
In the 14th and 15th Centuries, generally speaking, trenchers were cut from a dense, whole-grain loaf called tranche. I do sometimes bake a couple loaves, but this year my shoulder made kneading the dry-ish dough a less pleasant prospect.
To recreate tranche according to Peter Brears (head cook at Hampton Court Palace), I make a sponge of yeast, white flour, and some sugar, and let it get good and mature. I throw some salt in with whole wheat flour, with some added wheat bran. I mix up the basic dough until it's pretty dry and stiff, then proof it twice before forming it into oval loaves, but I do not let the loaves proof again before putting them in the oven. I bake it a 450 for 40-60 minutes, because it's very dense.
The end product is pretty tough stuff; works great for trenchers, and I also grill or fry it up for sops. It tastes pretty good if you like sturdy whole-grain breads.
Hope this helps. I bake by eye and feel, so amounts are not something I have recorded.
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I grew up on a family farm with a grand father that was very traditional German, so I got a very old fashioned education in farming early on. Many of our staple foods were developed for storage and transport cabilities. From honeyed oats that became granola to cookies which were high calorie, spoil resistaint, at yup sometimes yummiest, but think molasses and honey rather than sugar, to preserves and dry cured meats. So I agree with Sir Ian, a trencher is a hollowed out loaf, but there may have been hearty or well seasoned versions to increase storage value or cover the taste of rancid, salty, or just meals a bit past prime.
The mention of thinking of brad as a cheese and just cutting the mold off is very accurate, just as true as often eating larva infested breads as well, more common than I want to think about. Indeed any flour stored a month or so would have larva in it simply due to the open milling and open storage conditions, modern feeds store a bit better but that has a lot to do with how we process all grains today.
We had very hearty breads that were traditionally made into bowls, these were heavy whole grain and molasses loafs that my grandfather liked heavy stews in. These were not generally today's version of stew, but often made with sweet meats, as he wasted little of and animal we butchered. I actually miss some of these items that you just can't find, very difficult even in Amish regions, not because they don't eat them, but more that the English do not, pickeled heart anyone.
I do not doubt that someone didn't make flat breads into plates at some time, seems a natural thing actually if you make such breads. Sourdough is certainly period as keeping and making starter that would develop wild yeast and thereby offer a rising was absolutely the way it was done.
I ponder this, how did cultures isolated from seas, being far inland, without mining, did they acquire salt other than trading....
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I attempted to make some black bread to use as a trencher. I guess I screwed up somewhere with the yeast as after 3 hours the dough never rose. Since it never rose, it was too dense to cook all the way through. The inside was a bit doughy, but other outside and the crust tasted like Heaven. I will definitely try again, but I need to figure out first what went wrong with the yeast. I believe I did not store it in a warm enough place when I set it aside to rise.
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Here's a trick from days as a cook in college: set oven to 250. When it reaches 250, turn it OFF. Mix up and knead your dough. Cover bowl containing dough with a damp cloth and set in the oven to rise. Viola!
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I have some left over mixed flour, so perhaps I'll give it another go. Thanks for the tip!
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Be sure you have fresh yeast, too. The stuff in the packages has an expiration date for a reason ;)
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Here's a trick from days as a cook in college: set oven to 250. When it reaches 250, turn it OFF. Mix up and knead your dough. Cover bowl containing dough with a damp cloth and set in the oven to rise. Viola!
An excellent suggestion, one I didn't think of until my relatively flat loaf of bread came out of the oven. When they say 'warm' they really mean that; not just a room-temp kitchen. I suppose earlier kitchens were warmer due to having a fire burning for the entirety of the cooking cycle.
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Looking back, I realize I had placed the dough in one of the coldest rooms in the house. Guess I'll use that trick when I get the chance. I will say, though, whatever beer you use in black bread defines the taste. The bread tasted almost exactly like the beer.
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Mmm...Beer. :)
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In the lion in winter you see them using
Mmm...Beer. :)
I second that notion.
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In the lion in winter you see them using
Mmm...Beer. :)
I second that notion.
Sir Ian, this squire has too much time on his hands. Find something for him to polish! ;)
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In the lion in winter you see them using
Mmm...Beer. :)
I second that notion.
Sir Ian, this squire has too much time on his hands. Find something for him to polish! ;)
How would you even know what beer tastes like? I'm sure that being an upright and respectful citizen of these United States, you would NEVER let such beverages illegally pass your lips until you've reached the knightly age of 21. ;)
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In the lion in winter you see them using
Mmm...Beer. :)
I second that notion.
Sir Ian, this squire has too much time on his hands. Find something for him to polish! ;)
How would you even know what beer tastes like? I'm sure that being an upright and respectful citizen of these United States, you would NEVER let such beverages illegally pass your lips until you've reached the knightly age of 21. ;)
I don't know if that is possible for an Irishman to never know the taste of his God given gift. Alcohol runs through my very family's blood.
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In the lion in winter you see them using
Mmm...Beer. :)
I second that notion.
Sir Ian, this squire has too much time on his hands. Find something for him to polish! ;)
How would you even know what beer tastes like? I'm sure that being an upright and respectful citizen of these United States, you would NEVER let such beverages illegally pass your lips until you've reached the knightly age of 21. ;)
Isn't it Sir Nathans job to mentor this child ;)
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Isn't it Sir Nathans job to mentor this child ;)
That's frightening...
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Isn't it Sir Nathans job to mentor this child ;)
That's frightening...
In what way? Sir Nathan is a fully fledged knight of the Order, unlike our young Nate here, who is a newly-minted Page, as is his brother, Aiden (who is Sir Ian's protege/mentee). Besides, I had my first taste of beer at age 11 or 12 I think; didn't kill me or make me into a delinquent. Mind you, I took the poison off my Dad's (just means first sip). I didn't like it then...but I love it now!
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Isn't it Sir Nathans job to mentor this child ;)
That's frightening...
In what way? Sir Nathan is a fully fledged knight of the Order, unlike our young Nate here, who is a newly-minted Page, as is his brother, Aiden (who is Sir Ian's protege/mentee). Besides, I had my first taste of beer at age 11 or 12 I think; didn't kill me or make me into a delinquent. Mind you, I took the poison off my Dad's (just means first sip). I didn't like it then...but I love it now!
May I add that these things Nate are what colleges look for so be wary of what you say on the internet. If you noticed any statements I made in regard to this stuff I used a choice of words to evade such problems. Posts like these could ruin a college career.
William, I may like that stuff in the future, but right now I have to and prefer to stick with the root bear lol
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I mean it purely in jest. I've had the good fortune of enjoying Sir Nathan's good company at a few parties at CUA. Don't get me wrong, he's a great guy and has my utmost respect. As for underage drinking, I am in no way a member of the Temperance movement. I remember getting completely drunk for the first time at 16. I see that my jocular sarcasm seems to have not been adequately communicated. Alas, text can be a poor medium at times.
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May I add that these things Nate are what colleges look for so be wary of what you say on the internet. If you noticed any statements I made in regard to this stuff I used a choice of words to evade such problems. Posts like these could ruin a college career.
Not just colleges, but employers too. It's scary in some sectors of the working world. Teachers have been fired for having party pictures on facebook that showed them drinking *something* from a plastic cup. Some companies ask people for their facebook passwords so they can more easily look through it. It's crazy.
So it's something worth keeping in mind.
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One thing I've always done at parties before I was 21 was to always drink out of a solo cup. That way if a photo of me ended up online, there was no proof I was ever drinking alcohol.
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Lighten up people!
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+ 1. You're killing my buzz :)
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In the fare of several Eastern European countries, you'll find that bread bowls or trenchers are pretty common too. Bigos, for example, is very commonly eaten out of a "trencher".
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Lighten up people!
+ 1. You're killing my buzz :)
Sorry, just a bit of a digression there. :)
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Lighten up people!
Thank you.
May I add that these things Nate are what colleges look for so be wary of what you say on the internet. If you noticed any statements I made in regard to this stuff I used a choice of words to evade such problems. Posts like these could ruin a college career.
Not just colleges, but employers too. It's scary in some sectors of the working world. Teachers have been fired for having party pictures on facebook that showed them drinking *something* from a plastic cup. Some companies ask people for their facebook passwords so they can more easily look through it. It's crazy.
So it's something worth keeping in mind.
Ive never had a beer, And I won't until I am of age.
But let us get back To the Beer flavored Trenchers of Bready Joy.
Would pita be a good substitute?
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I put some pita in the toaster oven and it made a pretty good trencher I must say. Nice thickness, sturdy, liquids won't soak through it. I simply took some pita bread and put it in the toaster oven at 400 degrees on bake. I had it in there for about ten minutes but you can have it in there as long as you think it should. But that was with bread about 7 inches in diameter and half an inch thick. Just need to find one that is about a foot in diameter. It still tastes good. I say that's the easy way to make a trencher if you want to cheat a bit. Works rather nicely.
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I really want to go for black bread. It's a little more period and its got a great hearty and slightly bitter taste.
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I really want to go for black bread. It's a little more period and its got a great hearty and slightly bitter taste.
If you can than do it! I just find this to be good if in the need to make a trencher on the fly, or for a large body of people quickly. But like everything else, period is best most of the time.
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Black bread has to be one of the best tasting breads I've ever had (then again I haven't had that many breads)
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Or just stop eating like dirty peasants and get a pewter or wooden trencher :)
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My apologies if I'm not as technologically advanced as you 14th century knights
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My apologies if I'm not as technologically advanced as you 14th century knights
The Norman's had wood too :)
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Black bread has to be one of the best tasting breads I've ever had (then again I haven't had that many breads)
You know what, I don't think I have ever had it before. Is it like Pumpernickel? Might be something I'll have to explore, as a trencher and bread.
Or just stop eating like dirty peasants and get a pewter or wooden trencher :)
hey, those dirty peasants ate lobster before it was a rich food.
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Did the wealthy use Trenchers? It seems like that would be very unlikely, except maybe in earlier periods.
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Did the wealthy use Trenchers? It seems like that would be very unlikely, except maybe in earlier periods.
Sure did! They might be made out of pewter, or silver, or nicely crafted wood. Table-manners and how the food was served was a bit different than today.
For instance, for the wealthier classes, it was common for the food to be brought in and served to groups of four people at the table, who would cut small bite-sized pieces off of the meats/breads/cheeses, to place on their trencher, and they would eat it from there in small quantities. The idea of putting an entire meal on a plate for one person would have been seen as extremely bad taste and gluttonous.
They would also only touch the food with the thumb and first two fingers from their right hand to eat it, and stabilize it with the same fingers of the left hand while cutting servings. This way the hand that touches your mouth never touches the group servings. Also, the three-fingers set them aside from the peasantry, who would eat using all five.
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What's an appropriate wood for a trencher? I might add one to my "Long List of Projects I'll Probably Never Get Around To Doing". ::)
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Did the wealthy use Trenchers? It seems like that would be very unlikely, except maybe in earlier periods.
Sure did! They might be made out of pewter, or silver, or nicely crafted wood. Table-manners and how the food was served was a bit different than today.
For instance, for the wealthier classes, it was common for the food to be brought in and served to groups of four people at the table, who would cut small bite-sized pieces off of the meats/breads/cheeses, to place on their trencher, and they would eat it from there in small quantities. The idea of putting an entire meal on a plate for one person would have been seen as extremely bad taste and gluttonous.
They would also only touch the food with the thumb and first two fingers from their right hand to eat it, and stabilize it with the same fingers of the left hand while cutting servings. This way the hand that touches your mouth never touches the group servings. Also, the three-fingers set them aside from the peasantry, who would eat using all five.
My bad, I thought trenchers were only made of Bread! I thought that is what separated a trencher from a plate. What does separate a trencher from a plate?
does it come down to terminology? plates bring out the food and then people put the food on their trenchers, While today people bring out the food in Dish's and people put it on their plate/ people bring the food out on plates and people just eat it on the plate.
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What's an appropriate wood for a trencher? I might add one to my "Long List of Projects I'll Probably Never Get Around To Doing". ::)
Bahahaha you have one too?? :D
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What's an appropriate wood for a trencher? I might add one to my "Long List of Projects I'll Probably Never Get Around To Doing". ::)
Bahahaha you have one too?? :D
I thought that was pretty much a requirement for this hobby. ;)
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What's an appropriate wood for a trencher? I might add one to my "Long List of Projects I'll Probably Never Get Around To Doing". ::)
Bahahaha you have one too?? :D
I thought that was pretty much a requirement for this hobby. ;)
Making a list for things Ill never get around to doing
Is now on my to do list
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What does separate a trencher from a plate?
does it come down to terminology? plates bring out the food and then people put the food on their trenchers, While today people bring out the food in Dish's and people put it on their plate/ people bring the food out on plates and people just eat it on the plate.
It's basically just a small plate, so mostly terminology.
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What does separate a trencher from a plate?
does it come down to terminology? plates bring out the food and then people put the food on their trenchers, While today people bring out the food in Dish's and people put it on their plate/ people bring the food out on plates and people just eat it on the plate.
It's basically just a small plate, so mostly terminology.
So As I suspected.
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I made a second loaf of black bread and holy **** does it taste amazing! However, it still seems a bit small to be used as a trencher.
(http://i.imgur.com/DOz7XdB.jpg)
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Yummy
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
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Reminds me of my grandmothers scones
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Rather than bake them in a pan, I wonder if they rolled out bits of the dough and baked them on a sheet like a pizza crust? Seriously, a deep-dish thickness crust would work as a trencher.