ModernChivalry.org

Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Edward on 2012-08-19, 12:33:17

Title: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-08-19, 12:33:17

I admittedly only searched briefly before giving up, but I couldn't remember which threads we've talked about rust prevention and clean-up, and some of the problems some of us have been having lately, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

I never used to have much trouble with rust, or what little I did I was able to clean up with a little CLR. On items where I didn't mind messing up the finish (really cheap swords, the inside surfaces of armor), I've used wire-wheels on a drill, or small polishing wheels on the Dremel. It's quick and effective.

Mineral oil is what I've used for years to protect swords, and it must be working, since my Albion blades all look great (hilts are another story).

Recently I've been using CLR with steel wool, then quickly going over it with WD-40 to get the moisture out, then re-sealing with with either spray-on gun-oil, or Mineral Oil. This has failed miserably. As we discussed in another thread, both Sir James and I had problems with these items showing rust overnight, or over the first week. We've suspected both the gun oil, and the steel wool as being problematic here.

So I'm trying an experiment now.

(http://ed.toton.org/photos/2012/weapons/i0529.jpg) (http://ed.toton.org/photos/2012/weapons/i0529b.jpg)

I cleaned up my gauntlets, yet again (third time since this spring), and my brand-new helm, which I've never used, was still coated in whatever it shipped in, and yet still rusted a 6-inch long splotch on the back plus a few other splotches.

Right Gauntlet:  Turtle chrome polish,  WD-40, then Turtle wax.

Left Gauntlet: Metal-Glo, WD-40, then Ren-wax.

Helm:  Turtle chrome polish, WD-40, then Ren-wax.

I did all of these with scotchbrites and paper towels.

Immediately, the left gaunt doesn't look as good, since the metal-glo isn't a good rust remover. And while CLR with steel wool eats up the rust more quickly than the above options, it has problems, in that it's very watery and runs everywhere, whereas the others above are more thick. And I need to avoid the steel wool.

I also did a really quick pass over the fingers on the gaunts, so they don't look that great right now.

Another thing I'm tempted to do, is a CLR clean-up, and go over it with windex and let it dry. Then WD-40, and on to a sealant. I've used Windex on the swords before, and it's a nice soft soap to get oily crap off. But anything that's water based needs to use WD-40 and/or dry off.

Let's keep a good discussion going. Clearly we'll all have varying experiences, but hopefully we can come up with some really good methods.


Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-08-19, 15:01:56

BTW, thread is sticky so we can always find this.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2012-08-19, 15:21:28
I've posted this before, but will repost for the sticky:

My most successful rust prevention / cleaning method has been the use of BreakFree CLP (Cleaner / Lubricant / Preservative).  After wearing my armor, I will remove any dirt/dust with an old t-shirt or sock.  Then if there is any surface rust present, I will work it off using a green scrubby or appropriate grit scotch-brite pad (depending on level of polish), with a dab of CLP.  For more stubborn rust, let the CLP sit on the surface a bit before scrubbing like you would a fouled firearm barrel.

After the surface rust is removed, I will then apply a light coating of CLP to the entire surface of the metal.  Over time CLP thickens up a little bit and acts as a barrier to moisture and prevents rust rather effectively.  I have 2 helmets and a pair of hourglass gauntlets on display in my home that have not been treated in several months.  They sit in free air 24/7, and are occasionally exposed to humidity.  There are no signs of any surface rust on their surfaces.  I use this stuff on both armor and swords with excellent results.

Don't take my word for it, take Albion Swords' word for it:
From Albion's Sword Care Page (http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/sword-care.htm)
Quote
Regular Maintenance
After handling, cutting, or after six months of storage or display, the metal components should be wiped clean with a soft cloth, and lightly oiled with a quality machine or gun oil. We strongly recommend Break-Free CLP as the premium oil for this use - it is the same oil that we use prior to shipping the finished pieces from our shop. A more traditional approach would be to use a quality mineral oil, although it would require more frequent application.

(http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/440x330/primary/840/840573.jpg)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-08-19, 22:58:33
I narrowed my rapid-rust assault issues down to being the "blue CLR" by Zep. The grey CLR, the regular "Calcium Lime Rust", worked well. Ironically, both of them are sold at Home Depot. I haven't found any reason for the difference between the two (chemically), but it's night and day. I've got pieces I've cleaned with grey CLR and used the gun oil on from weeks ago that haven't showed a bit of rust yet.

My thought is that the rusting GDFB sabatons was a fluke, and the spray-on gun oil oversprayed when I was cleaning the cuisses in front of them, and that the overspray was probably "bounce off spray" that was contaminated with "blue CLR" from the cuisses. To confirm, I sprayed a few junk pieces with the RemOil gun oil, and had no rusting problems when the "blue CLR" wasn't used. When I sold my SCA gear last month or so, I started to clean it up with blue CLR, and it had turned green (starting to oxidize) within hours - I caught it before it went to epic rust level, which is when I knew it was the CLR, as I had done nothing but clean it and let it air dry - no WD40, no gun oil, no wax, nothing but the blue CLR.

I've got a "mix and match" of WD-40, "Grey CLR", RemOil spray gun oil, Eezox spray gun oil, and BreakFree CLP spray oil. I've also got some SC Johnson Floor Wax (low/no acid) that I picked up from Home Depot; one of the harnesses I bought had this on it already - the entire upper of the one I wore at VARF - and none of it rusted, except a few spots on the breastplate (from excessive sweat). The previous owner of the harness said it was recommended to him by someone who worked in the medieval armor section of the Met in NY (where the seller was from).

I've been doing rust removal with ScotchBrite grey ultra-fine pads and the grey CLR. For some of the stubborn spots, I've used the tiny wire wheels or wire cups on the dremel; it leaves black marks, but the scotchbrite and CLR takes care of those.

The most important thing is to get it before it starts pitting; after that, the metal is damaged and not reasonably repairable. As long as the maintenance is kept up with, almost any of the protectants will work fine; some better than others, of course, but as long as you put *something* on to protect it, and keep an eye on it, it'll serve you well.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-08-20, 01:32:52

Those grey scotchbrites are fantastic. They're the ones Albion recommends, and uses for their finishing. You can wipe down Albions with them and not alter the finish, as a result.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-08-20, 01:36:59

Those grey scotchbrites are fantastic. They're the ones Albion recommends, and uses for their finishing. You can wipe down Albions with them and not alter the finish, as a result.

What's recommended for the finish on polished stainless steel to regain its luster after stripping off the rust, particularly my Windlass arming sword??
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-08-20, 15:46:56
My armor cleaning has always consisted of Turtle Chrome Polish/Rust Remover with a green scrub pad, wipe off with a rag then a good wipe down with Remmington gun oil. Really tough rust gets a steel wool scrub and the serious rust goes under a wire wheel.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: merc3065 on 2012-08-20, 17:52:18
I've been using a scotch brite pad with Tom's Secret Formula B404.  It's a natural corn oil that is non toxic.  I've not had any major rust issues until recently with leather soaking up tons of sweat moisture and causing some epic levels of rust underneath the leather strips on the back of the armour.

So I've had to work oil into those areas that are inaccessible just to slow the rust down.

I've had very good luck with the B404 and have been using it for almost a year now.  Biggest thing is to let the armour and leather dry after you've sweat in the stuff, then condition the leather and the metal after it's dried.  If there's enough residual oil or wax on it you generally won't get too much in the way of flash rusting as the moisture can't penetrate and affect the metal's surface.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir William on 2012-08-21, 15:42:35
I use Flitz, and a microfiber or terry cloth to rub in and wipe down- it seems to work well on both armor and swords- altho in my case they're all carbon steel, non-stainless so there's that to consider.  I don't leave any of the items in any sort of protective enclosure- I've had some rust issues, usually after a hard day but beyond that, nothing that can't be cleaned up with a few sprays of Flitz and some elbow grease.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Leganoth on 2012-08-22, 23:11:06
My main problem is finger stains/dirt from finger prints, thats what really bothers me, could never find a way to remove them and avoid it
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-08-23, 00:19:59

Skin oils are corrosive to the steel, so the way to avoid it is to either not touch it (in the case of sword blades, touching the steel is easily avoidable and is a best practice anyway), or always wipe it down after handling it with fresh oil.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-08-23, 07:37:29

Skin oils are corrosive to the steel, so the way to avoid it is to either not touch it (in the case of sword blades, touching the steel is easily avoidable and is a best practice anyway), or always wipe it down after handling it with fresh oil.

And wearing disposable powder-free, non-allergenic, medical gloves when handling or cleaning does not hurt either. Keep the sweat caused by humidity from your steel when cleaning if your outside. Best done in cool environment anyways (like indoors).
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-08-23, 14:32:48
My main problem is finger stains/dirt from finger prints, thats what really bothers me, could never find a way to remove them and avoid it

As Sir Edward and Lord Dane said.

I'm becoming partial to the waxing, since the wax doesn't displace as easily as the oils, and seems to take handling better. My armor was handled to get it on at VARF, and other than the breastplate I was constantly sweating on, the pauldrons, arms, etc, didn't rust at all - and the only "cleaning" they got was a wipe with a towel - no extra wax or oil at all.

The other side is that it's more involved to remove and reseal the wax, or for cleaning.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2012-09-19, 00:31:31
My new topfhelm is already rusting, gotta clean that off. Yet my kettle helm has been in RAIN STORMS and has never rusted. Maybe it's cause my kettle has a mirror finish while my Topfhelm is satan finished? Not sure.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Jessica Finley on 2012-09-19, 02:11:03
Yup - the satin finish is (basically) tons of tiny grooves.  those grooves "catch" water, and encourage rust.  The smoother and shinier the polish, the less grooves, hence less rust. 
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-09-19, 05:10:15
^ yep
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-09-19, 09:56:48
could also be that the kettle has some sort of layer over the metal. i have seen this done with a few helmets. where rust shows up and i went to clean it only to find out the rust was under some kinda clear coat that i had now rubbed off leaving a lighter color metal in that spot ;)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-09-19, 14:08:50
Yup - the satin finish is (basically) tons of tiny grooves.  those grooves "catch" water, and encourage rust.  The smoother and shinier the polish, the less grooves, hence less rust.


Yep, this.


Oh, just thought I'd report back on some of the stuff I tried. It looks like BreakFree CLP is working really well as a protectant, and I've been having better luck with both the CLR and the Turtle Chrome Polish for cleaning. Rust does return after wearing the armor if you don't re-seal of course, but so far these products seem to be viable.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir William on 2012-09-20, 17:56:55
That's why God created squires.  I had an idea back when we first started talking about an Order, or rather, when Sir Edward did, that maybe our 'squires' would be tasked with light duty assignments, sort of to put them in the 'mood', you know?  Not take-home assignments per se, but while we're all together.  Guess we'd need to do that bit first though, eh?  :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2012-09-20, 22:31:44
I want to age the appearance of my helms and sword so they look old like they're a family heirloom armor and weapons that was passed down. Also could be an excuse for having something from an older time period in a later one. We should have a tutorial on antiquing.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-09-21, 00:23:31
I want to age the appearance of my helms and sword so they look old like they're a family heirloom armor and weapons that was passed down. Also could be an excuse for having something from an older time period in a later one. We should have a tutorial on antiquing.

That process is called "oxidation" commonly known amongst armor wearing folks as "RUST".   ;D
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-09-21, 03:12:56
I want to age the appearance of my helms and sword so they look old like they're a family heirloom armor and weapons that was passed down. Also could be an excuse for having something from an older time period in a later one. We should have a tutorial on antiquing.

Pee on it, and leave it outside for a while.

I'm kidding.

Actually, not kidding.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir William on 2012-09-21, 20:27:30
Pee on it?  I was gonna say to bury it in the yard for a year then dig it back up.  Of course, I wouldn't do it to an Albion.  Now that I think on it, I recall Sir Edward's Albion Knight having a nice bit of patina on the hilt components as well as the blade...you should ask him how he did that.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-09-21, 22:29:36

That came from displaying it on a wall-rack without re-oiling for quite some time. :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-09-22, 07:34:55
You can get the same effect if you keep sweaty fighting gear in your sword bag as well. ;)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-09-22, 09:31:17
You can get the same effect if you keep sweaty fighting gear in your sword bag as well. ;)

And have a vintage stench as well as patina.  :o
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-09-23, 03:35:44
Pee on it?

Yep. Something to do with uric acid causing metal to rust quickly.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Silvanus on 2012-10-19, 16:16:27
That's why God created squires.  I had an idea back when we first started talking about an Order, or rather, when Sir Edward did, that maybe our 'squires' would be tasked with light duty assignments, sort of to put them in the 'mood', you know?  Not take-home assignments per se, but while we're all together.  Guess we'd need to do that bit first though, eh?  :)

Templar Sergeant : http://www.flickr.com/photos/10072349@N05/6272726406/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/10072349@N05/6272726406/#)

As a Templar sergeant, I am quite used to doing menial tasks for the knights of my Order, and as long as I am allowed the privilege of battle, I serve them willingly. "In 1130, Bernard of Clairvaux drew up the rules for the new Knights Templar order. Bernard set up the order with two main classes of knighthood, the knights and sergeants or serving brethren. Sergeants or serving brothers wore a black or brown mantle to show their lower status, whilst the Knights wore a red cross granted by Pope Eugenius III. Married men who joined the order could only join as sergeants, their property coming into the possession of the Order rather than to their wives upon their death." Whole article here: http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/knights-templar-history.htm (http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/knights-templar-history.htm) and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar) ...

While you gentlemen are not Templars, you are still noble and if we are ever able to spend more than the usual few minutes at Faire together (perhaps at Pennsic next year?), I would be happy to take on the servant's role. - As long as I get to FIGHT!  ;D
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-10-19, 22:12:49
Oh, the many, many hours I could entertain you with cleaning...

Nice excerpt. I wonder where they pulled it from?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-10-19, 22:42:27
Very interesting Silvanus. I enjoy reading your posts. Hope I can meet you next outing. Templars always peek my interest. :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir William on 2012-10-23, 14:56:45
Silvanus, I was meaning the younger squires but if you are willing, I have helms and breastplates (and other plate bits) that require more attention than I'm giving them.  lol
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2013-04-29, 00:21:48
Does anyone know how to clean surface rust off of maille? I honestly have not a clue how to, I been using a wire brush to clean it bit by bit but it's neither stimulating nor that effective. This is all thanks to my maille chausses rusting after I cleaned the oil off of them and I cleaned them in only an HOUR and they got all rusty which really POed me. I was considering throwing them in the dryer as they're only about 5-6 pounds each but I tried that for about 20 minutes to no avail. I am NOT using harsh chemicals as I'm not making the same mistake of getting it wet again. I want to to use an abrasive method to clean it off. I was considering getting sacks of sand and tossing them around as they're not as heavy as a hauberk which means it would probably be easier but I really need help here I dont want to end up with pitting corrosion and my maile rusting away.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2013-04-29, 02:19:17
they wont rust away. it takes years for metal to do that. my forth armoury mail turned completely orange once with rust from camping and fighting in the rain. i put it in a sack of sand and moved it around for a while. i kept it in there and moved it each day. i think i even dumped the sand and put in new sand. then i brushed it off, sprayed it with oil lightly and let it hang. i may have even wiped down the oil some. then i kept it in a burlap sack. i moved it around every once in a while just to clean it. that's what mail does, it self cleans as it is abrasive to itself. it will no longer stay shiny. it may even turn dark. you will be fine. :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2013-04-29, 02:31:40
I tumbled mine in a dryer which got rid of most the rust. Has a bit of a patina on it now and looks rather genuine and not so machine made. I actually prefer it with the patina on it. Wont work for my hauberk though cause thats like 25 pounds at least, not gonna risk breaking the dryer for that, but once it's tailored it probably should weigh less.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Martyn on 2013-07-17, 22:28:42
Good tips all. 

Some of my European friends had also recorded the possible use of olive oil as another natural metal preservative.  I haven't tried it (using Ballistol for the moment, non-toxic & the application/smell is more tolerable indoors than WD40) saying when it dries it also leaves a protective layer on the armor, etc.  Still need to try it out.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2013-08-19, 23:36:58
armor for me is an easy clean, but my sword is a challenge. the only thing that does clean it are these little packages from the hardware store, but no other polish or anything. It seems a black substance like a stain (not rust) has taken affect on my sword. I think its dried grease.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2013-08-20, 12:08:19
armour and swords are easy..... sigh, you should try cleaning a rifle after it has been in the beach sand a salt water (DDay ohio battle this past weekend ahhhhh) lol
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2013-08-20, 14:38:19


Yeah, black discoloration is just corrosion as well. It has to be polished out, and takes a little more "elbow grease" so to speak. Depending on the finish of your sword, any abrasives may alter the appearance, so you have to be careful.

With my Albions, those dark spots come right out with a grey (fine-grained) scotchbrite pad and some oil and/or rust remover. But Albion does their finishing with those same scotchbrites, so it doesn't alter the appearance to use them.

Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir William on 2013-08-20, 16:11:46
I use Flitz from Windlass for my plate bits and swords; I've not had any issues with my hauberk yet though...it is galvanized though, I'm sure that's why.  I've even worn it out in the rain with no ill effects.  For regular mild steel, I'd do as Sir Wolf suggested- barrel roll w/sand and vinegar, then oil it...and store it somewhere above the ground and out of direct sunlight.  If you store it in a place that isn't climate controlled, expect to see rust return at some point.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2013-09-07, 19:16:28
Hey my sword has gotten a bit rusty, any tips on how to remove it. I recently cleaned it and put oil on it. i just used a sponge with dish soap to get most of the dirt off, then I rewet it and dried it off, then added a thin layer of olive oil. I don't have any metal polish yet, but Ive been meaning to have my sword taken to a guy that can take away the rust and rethread the pommel, which is a screw on, and possibly sharpen the sword.
There is a black rust on the sword do you know how to get that out? and how to clean leather?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Martyn on 2013-09-29, 21:57:21
Sir Nate - for the leather I would use saddle soap and then skin lotion is very good at keeping it supple.  The saddle soap - and mink oil as well - have the added benefit of water proofing it. 

I must admit that I fear what effect the traditional sand barrel roll armor cleaning has on the leather bits...

Re: the sword others here may know better, but it seems to me and what I've sen on my won swords & armor is that you have to do the best you can at first removing whatever rust is present.  if lest, even below a non-corrosive, protective layer of something else it can continue to cause trouble.  Once you've sufficiently cleaned it only then can you use a coat of something else - WD40 or oil, etc - to keep the air/moisture away from metal.

After some serious struggles with my harness with rust which collected during its trip via DHL from Germany, I used Johnson's wax to coat it which I hope will preserve it for a bit before I'll have time to give it another thorough cleaning and perhaps repaint the interior surfaces as well.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-09-30, 17:02:53
Regarding sand in a barrel cleaning, I've only seen it mentioned with mail, so leather should be non-existant; I'd wager the surviving bits that have leather straps were either removed and re-sewn, or replaced as needed when cleaning.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Spinal on 2013-10-13, 21:20:31
Hello,
new here - so go easy on me :)

I found this site through another thread on this subject (this one if anyone cares: http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,666.15.html (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,666.15.html) ) as I have some surface rust on my armour.

Was planning to try brillo paste, followed by some motorcycle wax to prevent the rust from re-forming. My "issue" (which I don't think you have, but correct me if I'm wrong) is that the mirror finish on the armour I have prevents me from using steel wool or similar coarse abrasives.

Anyhow - that was me introducing myself (sort of), saying hi, and posting my tuppence worth!

M.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2013-10-13, 23:59:02
welcome!

what type of armour? some armour made has a "sealer" on the metal that is a pain in the but. cause it starts to rust under the sealer and then you have to remove ALL of the sealer before you can get to the rust.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Spinal on 2013-10-14, 19:06:14
Thanks for the welcome. I'll keep my armour type hidden for now, lest I be chased, tarred and feathered...

I don't think the armour is sealed, but I may be wrong.

Also on my todo list is find a way to replace some of the leather bits which are held in by what looks like brass rivets...

M.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Martyn on 2013-10-15, 02:07:24
Welcome, sir.  No shame in learning, for we all start somewhere - Lord knows I have a long way to go myself :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-10-15, 17:17:31
Thanks for the welcome. I'll keep my armour type hidden for now, lest I be chased, tarred and feathered...

I don't think the armour is sealed, but I may be wrong.

Also on my todo list is find a way to replace some of the leather bits which are held in by what looks like brass rivets...

M.

Stainless??

It's stainless!!!

Break out the pitch forks!!!!!! :D

Just kidding ... no problems with stainless. I have some myself. ;)

Mirror polish means you can't use coarse abrasives or it will mess with the finish. Try chemicals first, and if that fails, try using a similar/identical grit to what it was polished with.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2013-10-15, 17:58:09
If you need to use a coarse abrasive for stubborn rust on mirror-finished armor you need to remove the rust and then return the armor to a mirror finish using the same procedure that got it there in the first place, that is using finer and finer grits until finally using a polishing compound to match the finish.

Because I have absolutely 0 desire to ever go through that much work to clean my armor I shy away from anything with a mirror finish :)

Your best bet is to prevent rust in the first place by keeping your armor oiled or waxed.  I prefer the use of Breakfree CLP firearm cleaner, lubricant, and protection (hence the CLP :) ) It forms a film on the surface of the armor and has always prevented surface rust from forming even after long-term storage with no re-application.

When I wear my armor for long periods (as I did this past weekend), it got some dirt and some minor rust spots on the surface.  I use gray scotch-brite pads with CLP to remove it and then wipe it clean with a sock or rag, and the oil will stay on there and then I'm done until the next armor-wearing marathon.

If you're not really attached to a mirror-finish, I would recommend biting the bullet and removing the finish with a gray or green scotch-bride pad and bringing your armor to a satin finish so you don't have to worry as much since every time you remove rust you'll  match the finish perfectly.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Spinal on 2013-10-18, 07:27:09
Thanks - will try to find some of that CLP... found similar ones on eBay, but not that same brand. Where do you get yours from?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-10-18, 12:27:32
Amazon or gun stores should have it
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Spinal on 2013-10-18, 15:22:10
I think it may be an American thing... gun stores here are quite rare (buying a gun in the UK is almost impossible, you need to get a police test, join a club and shoot (without your own gun) for at least a year (going every month), and only then can you apply for a firearms certificate (with which you can't buy a pistol, or most full-bore rifles anyhow).

Found someone who sells in the UK, charges a fortune (120ml for £25 - about $35/$40) but it's on it's way :)

I'll report progress!
M
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2013-10-18, 15:23:42
Breakfree CLP is technically now owned by the company SafariLand which makes holsters and other tactical equipment, so you may see it under that name as well.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2013-10-18, 16:35:19
can farmers own firearms in england then?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Spinal on 2013-10-18, 17:17:44
Only shotguns; but they need to follow a whole set of rules, like owning the land (and still go through all the same controls).
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: LionPride32 on 2013-12-10, 07:33:05
I have a Robin Hood film King Richard sword by Windlass, carbon steele blade. It seems to be showing slightly darker patches on the blade here and there but bo actual rust _ what should I use? WD-40??
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2013-12-10, 11:43:21
I have a Robin Hood film King Richard sword by Windlass, carbon steele blade. It seems to be showing slightly darker patches on the blade here and there but bo actual rust _ what should I use? WD-40??

Wd40 evaporates too fast. Use an oil like Break-Free CLP and a scotch brite pad to remove the spot, then apply a thin layer of CLP and leave it on like you would a firearm.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2013-12-10, 15:25:59

WD40 is great for cleaning the surfaces, but it does evaporate quite quickly. If you ever use soap-water or something like that to get the oils off the steel, WD40 is what you want to use for getting moisture out of the grain of the steel. The "WD" stands for "Water Displacement". 

But for sealing it against moisture in the air, Breakfree CLP is fantastic. People have had good luck with Turtle Wax and similar other sealants as well.

Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-12-10, 16:47:09
^ what Sir Ian and Sir Edward said. I've used "RemOil" since it's easy to find in the firearms section at Walmart. Breakfree CLP can be found in regular gun stores, but I haven't seen it in any Walmarts yet.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Douglas on 2013-12-10, 17:19:41
Has anyone ever tried Eagle One wax as a sealant? I've been using the spray-on kind on my armor and it seems to work really well.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-12-10, 19:25:21
I've used a paste wax, but it's tough to get cleaned off around/under straps and articulation. It protected really well when handling - I'd say better than oil - but at the expense of it being more difficult to strip off and re-seal when needed. It also gives more of a "dull" appearance than the "shine" oil gives it.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Douglas on 2013-12-10, 20:03:15
I started out using a paste wax; Trewax or something like that. It worked great, but it would get gummed up in breathes and between the joins in the plates, and it was red so there would be these little bits of red wax stuck in places that were hard to clean. Then I tried beeswax, but it was just too hard to work with and, being lazy, I wasn't going to bother with heating it up to make it softer.

The Eagle One is really nice, though. Just spray it on and rub it in with a soft cloth. It doesn't seem to dull the shine as much as the paste wax. I'm guessing because it's specifically formulated for automobiles. The only thing is I haven't been using it for very long, so for the time being I'm unsure if there are any negative long-term effects. So far so good, though.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: LionPride32 on 2013-12-15, 12:12:08
Hehehe I know ALL about CLP!! I was THE armorer of my unit in the marines!! The only one in the unit who could get away with telling the C.O. what  to do.!!! "Sorry Sir, your rifle isn't clean enough....please go out back and scrub it some more."
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2013-12-15, 13:22:22
Yeah, knowing you were a marine I didn't bother explaining anything about CLP because I had a sneaking suspicion you may have used it once or twice before...  ;)

Bottom line, it works great on swords and armor too.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Humphrey on 2014-01-02, 18:30:43
I was in the Army when CLP was introduced.  We called it "Breakfree" back in the day. It was a God-send.  It replaced both bore cleaner and gun oil and shortened weapon cleaning time tremendously.  I'm new to armor and swords, but knew immediately that CLP would be what I'll be using.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-01-02, 18:38:56
I was in the Army when CLP was introduced.  We called it "Breakfree" back in the day. It was a God-send.  It replaced both bore cleaner and gun oil and shortened weapon cleaning time tremendously.  I'm new to armor and swords, but knew immediately that CLP would be what I'll be using.

Breakfree is the company that produced CLP  until it was bought out by Safariland.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-01-02, 19:05:12
I was in the Army when CLP was introduced.  We called it "Breakfree" back in the day. It was a God-send.  It replaced both bore cleaner and gun oil and shortened weapon cleaning time tremendously.  I'm new to armor and swords, but knew immediately that CLP would be what I'll be using.

Breakfree is the company that produced CLP  until it was bought out by Safariland.

Beat me to it :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Martyn on 2014-01-18, 04:01:59
Oh this is excellent - I have to get some CLP and Eagle One tomorrow - can I get both at Wal-Mart or would a gun shop be a better bet?

I used paste wax after RenFaire on my plate harness and it seems to be holding up fine, but I'm concerned about the inside surfaces as well where the protective paint on the unpolished surfaces has scatted/worn off.  And then there are the swords....
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Don Jorge on 2014-03-06, 19:36:46
Which CLP type do you use? I found all types CLP - 4 and CLP - 5? It seems like it comes in different forms...does it matter? Which produces the least mess...also is CLP okay for indoor use or should I take my armor out to the balcony?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-03-06, 21:31:50
Oh this is excellent - I have to get some CLP and Eagle One tomorrow - can I get both at Wal-Mart or would a gun shop be a better bet?

I used paste wax after RenFaire on my plate harness and it seems to be holding up fine, but I'm concerned about the inside surfaces as well where the protective paint on the unpolished surfaces has scatted/worn off.  And then there are the swords....

Sorry, missed this one before. CLP I have only found at gun store. RemOil can be found at Walmart in the gun section, and I've used it a year or two now without trouble.

I used spray-on truck bed liner on my inner surfaces. When it wears off, clean the rust and respray it. I'd say no more than a year or two - the surfaces getting worn off are being rubbed off, and as long as that continues, it will rub itself clean with usage. Maybe paint it at the end of the season if it's bad enough.

Which CLP type do you use? I found all types CLP - 4 and CLP - 5? It seems like it comes in different forms...does it matter? Which produces the least mess...also is CLP okay for indoor use or should I take my armor out to the balcony?

Breakfree CLP, it's owned by a new company (Safari). I've seen a number of different numbers tagged after the CLP part but never seen any functional difference between them, always just referred to as CLP. Spray is the only form I've ever seen.

It smells, so, I'd do it outside, unless you like the smell, in which case, use it indoors .... then toss out your deodorant and just give yourself a nice little oil coating - sweat will just slide right off!
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Don Jorge on 2014-03-06, 21:44:39
So aerosol is fine? I have seen liquid and aerosol...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-03-06, 23:17:50
So aerosol is fine? I have seen liquid and aerosol...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk



Spray can is what I use for both CLP and RemOil - no problems. Oil is oil, just a question of how messy do you want to be applying it. :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Don Jorge on 2014-03-06, 23:34:22
So, I just remembered I had some Skanunu bearing cleaner/lube at home from my longboarding days...this stuff was amazing a lubricating my bearings and making sure they didnt rust when skating in the rain...I wonder how it would hold up as oil for armor...

Check it out:
http://skanunu.com/index.asp (http://skanunu.com/index.asp)

I have this type:
http://shop.skanunu.com/Skanunu-2oz-Bearing-Cleaner-Lube-SKA-BCL-2OZ.htm (http://shop.skanunu.com/Skanunu-2oz-Bearing-Cleaner-Lube-SKA-BCL-2OZ.htm)

Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-03-13, 03:09:28
Ok ive been able to get alot of black corrosion out of my sword, but there still some stuff that looks like a sort of very thin dirt. Ill try and get pics but my camera has trouble picking up the corrosion.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Mike W. on 2014-03-13, 03:11:06
it's most likely rust pitting, in which case it's rather permanent unless you grind it.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-03-13, 03:18:32
it's most likely rust pitting, in which case it's rather permanent unless you grind it.

I think you may be right. I will just have to keep a watchful eye and take good care. Oil, or coat of polish. Just something to protect the steel.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Mike W. on 2014-03-13, 14:59:50
Might I recommend Renaissance Wax. You can get it from Kult of Athena
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-03-14, 03:23:03
What about turtle wax?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2014-03-14, 13:15:45
What about turtle wax?

It works pretty well. I sometimes use it.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Mike W. on 2014-03-14, 17:13:09
The British Museum uses Renaissance Wax. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-03-15, 23:17:22
I've actually used Johnson floor wax paste from Home Depot. I bought some armor years ago that was protected with it, and it worked well. It was more troublesome to clean compared to simple oiling, with the trade-off that it also protected longer. It wasn't as nice to straps, as it left "gunk" around them.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-06, 19:08:21
hmm, the combination of metal polish and oil seems to have dried up and created a waxy coat over my helm.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Brian on 2014-04-07, 14:19:40
Take a dry green scouring pad to it. ;)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Don Jorge on 2014-04-07, 14:21:17
Take a dry green scouring pad to it. ;)

Or go out and do some lawn work in the sun...it should melt away ;P
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-04-07, 15:01:07
Or leave it, because it's preventing rust :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-07, 23:23:37
Or leave it, because it's preventing rust :)
But it trapped hair under it.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-04-08, 02:52:59
hmm, the combination of metal polish and oil seems to have dried up and created a waxy coat over my helm.

Windex, wipe dry, WD40, wipe dry, oil
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-08, 12:20:40
hmm, the combination of metal polish and oil seems to have dried up and created a waxy coat over my helm.

Windex, wipe dry, WD40, wipe dry, oil

WD40?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Don Jorge on 2014-04-08, 12:47:39
wd40 in helmet is dangerous....when you sweat into your eyes the wd40 will hurt your eyes bad!
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-04-08, 15:41:06
hmm, the combination of metal polish and oil seems to have dried up and created a waxy coat over my helm.

Windex, wipe dry, WD40, wipe dry, oil

WD40?

(http://wd40.com/files/images/fam-shot32597148.jpg)

Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc :)

wd40 in helmet is dangerous....when you sweat into your eyes the wd40 will hurt your eyes bad!

Wipe dry. ;)

Anything substantial *inside* the helmet I just wire wheel out, and coat with fresh paint. Completely different than the outside.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-09, 12:40:42
hmm, the combination of metal polish and oil seems to have dried up and created a waxy coat over my helm.

Windex, wipe dry, WD40, wipe dry, oil

WD40?

(http://wd40.com/files/images/fam-shot32597148.jpg)

Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc :)

wd40 in helmet is dangerous....when you sweat into your eyes the wd40 will hurt your eyes bad!

Wipe dry. ;)

Anything substantial *inside* the helmet I just wire wheel out, and coat with fresh paint. Completely different than the outside.

Well I will use it on the outside, inside is fine.
The hair is small short dog hair on the outside.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-09, 12:44:03
Maybe I will sell my helm, It has a bunch of dents, it is too small, my eyes are to low with my coif and arming cap on, my nose is squished. There is a bit of a rust spot on the side, etc etc. I already have a cheap helm to start practicing on :).
But I have a feeling windex can't get rid of Dents
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Aiden of Oreland on 2014-04-10, 01:30:12
Paint inside??
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Douglas on 2014-04-10, 03:26:37
Paint inside??

Yep. :) It's an easy way to prevent rust, and you don't usually see the inside anyway. Historically, it seems to have been somewhat common to paint the outside as well, though that's something you don't see a lot of in modern reenactment.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Rodney on 2014-04-10, 04:59:15
I use a flat black spray (shaker can) primer on the interior of my bascinet every time I tear it down to inspect and/or replace the padding.  Of course I do this after any rust spots have been wire wheeled away.  The interior of my visor seems to need it more often due to all the condensation from breathing hard.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-04-10, 14:32:28
I actually use spray-on truck bed liner. About the same price, and seems to hold up better than just paint.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Aiden of Oreland on 2014-04-10, 20:21:44
Well now I know what I am doing when I get a helmet :) Man, armor maintenance is rough and time consuming! A lot for a beginner like me to remember! Is it possible to have a step by step list out on all this stuff? I would find that most useful! One for mail armor and the other on sword and plate. Because to be honest I don't really know what to do and would feel more comfortable with instructions. This is my personal opinion, most of you may read something or be better at putting stuff together.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-04-10, 21:37:14
Well now I know what I am doing when I get a helmet :) Man, armor maintenance is rough and time consuming! A lot for a beginner like me to remember! Is it possible to have a step by step list out on all this stuff? I would find that most useful! One for mail armor and the other on sword and plate. Because to be honest I don't really know what to do and would feel more comfortable with instructions. This is my personal opinion, most of you may read something or be better at putting stuff together.

Don't make it too complicated.

All I do to maintain all of my armor and swords and axes and daggers etc is this...

After I use it I wipe off any dirt or debris with a rag.  Then I put some BreakFree CLP (it's a firearm lubricant / solvent) on the armor directly and rub it gently with a gray scotch-brite pad.  Then I rub it again with a sock with some more oil on it to leave a very thin layer of oil.  Leave the oil on it, and put it away until next time.

The oil will thicken in to a nice film that protects your armor/sword/blade/axe/dagger blah blah until next use. 

If there's some rust on the inside of armor I do the same thing I do to the outside.  No paint, no bed liners, no turtle wax, no nothin'... just gun oil, fine grit scouring pad, and a rag.  Haven't had any issues in years.

I cleaned my entire kit, 3 swords, a dagger, and a poleaxe on Monday after the Order's function in DC and it took about 30 minutes total to do everything, and I won't have to do an ounce of maintenance again until I use it again at MTT.

BTW, I leave my helmet and gauntlets out on a bookshelf displayed, and they don't get any rust on them even after sitting in the open for months on end.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Aiden of Oreland on 2014-04-11, 00:49:55
Well now I know what I am doing when I get a helmet :) Man, armor maintenance is rough and time consuming! A lot for a beginner like me to remember! Is it possible to have a step by step list out on all this stuff? I would find that most useful! One for mail armor and the other on sword and plate. Because to be honest I don't really know what to do and would feel more comfortable with instructions. This is my personal opinion, most of you may read something or be better at putting stuff together.

Don't make it too complicated.

All I do to maintain all of my armor and swords and axes and daggers etc is this...

After I use it I wipe off any dirt or debris with a rag.  Then I put some BreakFree CLP (it's a firearm lubricant / solvent) on the armor directly and rub it gently with a gray scotch-brite pad.  Then I rub it again with a sock with some more oil on it to leave a very thin layer of oil.  Leave the oil on it, and put it away until next time.

The oil will thicken in to a nice film that protects your armor/sword/blade/axe/dagger blah blah until next use. 

If there's some rust on the inside of armor I do the same thing I do to the outside.  No paint, no bed liners, no turtle wax, no nothin'... just gun oil, fine grit scouring pad, and a rag.  Haven't had any issues in years.

I cleaned my entire kit, 3 swords, a dagger, and a poleaxe on Monday after the Order's function in DC and it took about 30 minutes total to do everything, and I won't have to do an ounce of maintenance again until I use it again at MTT.

BTW, I leave my helmet and gauntlets out on a bookshelf displayed, and they don't get any rust on them even after sitting in the open for months on end.

Simple yet effective :) Thank you Sir Ian for that, my mind is now organized and I think I'll have an easier time now. Though I have the feeling that in a few years I'll be doing this to other peoples armor once I'm squire...
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Mike W. on 2014-04-11, 11:54:43
Believe me, they aren't going to wait. They'll have you do it as a Page.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2014-04-11, 13:25:17

You see, Sir Ian is smart and proactive. Don't be like me, and forget to clean things until months after use, and by then everything is rusty. And once the rust sets in, it comes back quicker and harder the next time.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-04-11, 18:53:37
Yes, being proactive is key.  You have to realize that as rust develops, it's literally displacing the steel on the surface of your armor.  So the more it is allowed to develop, the more the potential exists for the rust to penetrate deeper in to the surface of the steel.  When you remove it, it will leave tiny pits in the steel, whether they are visible or not.  Those tiny pits hold on to moisture better than a polished surface, and that means they invite the rust to come back with more frequency than a smooth surface.

The smoother the polish on your armor, the more difficult it is for rust to develop.  You don't need to have an obnoxiously shiny mirror polish, but don't allow rust to sit for long, or it will pit your armor.  You can of course fix this with the right grits of buffing wheels and sandpaper etc... but it's a lot easier to just keep it clean in the first place! :) 

The more you neglect rust, the more it will return to haunt you.  And rust, like sand people, will be back, and in greater numbers!
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-04-11, 20:17:31
Sir Ian has it covered very well.

My primary rust issues are things like VARF when the armor is used all day, put in a box, used the next day, put in a box, I get home, unload the car/truck (sometimes), shower, go sleep, go to work, Monday is trash / recycles / kitty litter / etc so typically chores then bed (unpack/unload if I didn't already), Tuesday is work all day, and by Tuesday I get to start cleaning. The rust is minimal, mostly inside due to sweat (sweat is salty / salt water) and where the liner rubs off from contact with the mail / other plates. A couple days of 6-7 hours at 90+ degree temps makes armor rather icky. Even then, it's light rust, no pitting; the bright orange, "early" rust that is easy to clean.

Outside, very light surface rust I just wire wheel off, since my armor is basic unpolished mild steel - and I have a lot of plate surface area to clean. The scotch-brite that Sir Ian mentioned works just as well and is better for polished / carbon steel. When I wire wheel off any one piece of armor, I do the whole set. Somewhat OCD with that.

If there's no rust outside, it's just a basic wipe down with an oily rag to remove any sweat / moisture, and a fresh spray of oil. Since it stays on the stand (with air circulation), it isn't as prone to moisture issues as being in a box.

I'm sort of the "middle ground" between Sir Ian and Sir Edward with maintenance. :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-11, 21:37:17
Sir Ian has it covered very well.

My primary rust issues are things like VARF when the armor is used all day, put in a box, used the next day, put in a box, I get home, unload the car/truck (sometimes), shower, go sleep, go to work, Monday is trash / recycles / kitty litter / etc so typically chores then bed (unpack/unload if I didn't already), Tuesday is work all day, and by Tuesday I get to start cleaning. The rust is minimal, mostly inside due to sweat (sweat is salty / salt water) and where the liner rubs off from contact with the mail / other plates. A couple days of 6-7 hours at 90+ degree temps makes armor rather icky. Even then, it's light rust, no pitting; the bright orange, "early" rust that is easy to clean.

Outside, very light surface rust I just wire wheel off, since my armor is basic unpolished mild steel - and I have a lot of plate surface area to clean. The scotch-brite that Sir Ian mentioned works just as well and is better for polished / carbon steel. When I wire wheel off any one piece of armor, I do the whole set. Somewhat OCD with that.

If there's no rust outside, it's just a basic wipe down with an oily rag to remove any sweat / moisture, and a fresh spray of oil. Since it stays on the stand (with air circulation), it isn't as prone to moisture issues as being in a box.

I'm sort of the "middle ground" between Sir Ian and Sir Edward with maintenance. :)

I have realized that Either way with a box or stand oil dry's up just as fast.
I find there to be more maintanance in winter since its going unused, and you forget to re-oil/clean 
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-04-11, 21:41:45
I have realized that Either way with a box or stand oil dry's up just as fast.
I find there to be more maintanance in winter since its going unused, and you forget to re-oil/clean

The BreakFree CLP I recommended will not evaporate.  I did 0 maintenance from October to late January (the first time I wore it after October) and had no rust.  CLP will not appear wet and shiny anymore, but it has formed a film that will last indefinitely until it's mechanically removed by wiping.  This is true of most firearm lubricants and other metal oils.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-11, 21:44:38
Is that common at local hardware stores?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-04-11, 21:45:53
Is that common at local hardware stores?

Gun stores will probably have it before a hardware store.  It's on Amazon here (http://www.amazon.com/Break-Free-Cleaner-Lubricant-Preservative-Squeeze/dp/B0050GW7KU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397252725&sr=8-1&keywords=breakfree+clp).

I use it on my guns too.  And Albion uses it on all their swords! :)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-11, 21:51:48
Im sold. (well Ill purchase it this coming week.)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-04-11, 22:08:18
A wire wheel will remove rust, but will micro-score the surface of the armor, making rust more likely in the future on the same principle I discussed above with pitting due to rust.  To prevent that, you'd need to polish over the spots you wire-wheeled and restore the surface to smooth to bring back your armor's natural ability to not corrode easily.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-13, 04:42:57
A wire wheel will remove rust, but will micro-score the surface of the armor, making rust more likely in the future on the same principle I discussed above with pitting due to rust.  To prevent that, you'd need to polish over the spots you wire-wheeled and restore the surface to smooth to bring back your armor's natural ability to not corrode easily.

Let me get a pen.
For buying
Armor and not takig care of it properly is truly a waste.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-04-14, 02:13:54
A wire wheel will remove rust, but will micro-score the surface of the armor, making rust more likely in the future on the same principle I discussed above with pitting due to rust.  To prevent that, you'd need to polish over the spots you wire-wheeled and restore the surface to smooth to bring back your armor's natural ability to not corrode easily.

Yep, absolutely. If the armor is polished, never use a wire wheel. If it isn't polished, the wire wheel won't make much difference.

The finer the grit used for polishing, the more rust-resistant the armor will be, for the reason Sir Ian stated above. There's substantial arguments over just how shiny is correct for period, however.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-04-29, 20:29:19
Custom Chainmail has been doing some cool rust preventative tests on his maille samples... here's his latest results after 8 days of various products.  All maille samples were sprayed with saltwater.  Some samples are completely rusted, others lightly, some are rust free...

**spoiler alert**

The BreakFree CLP I've been trying to push on you guys forever is still rust free!

http://www.customchainmail.com/2014/04/29/day-8-update-rust-prevention-test-v2/ (http://www.customchainmail.com/2014/04/29/day-8-update-rust-prevention-test-v2/)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-04-29, 22:31:18
Custom Chainmail has been doing some cool rust preventative tests on his maille samples... here's his latest results after 8 days of various products.  All maille samples were sprayed with saltwater.  Some samples are completely rusted, others lightly, some are rust free...

**spoiler alert**

The BreakFree CLP I've been trying to push on you guys forever is still rust free!

http://www.customchainmail.com/2014/04/29/day-8-update-rust-prevention-test-v2/ (http://www.customchainmail.com/2014/04/29/day-8-update-rust-prevention-test-v2/)

This is all from non oiled right? or do they apply the polish and then wet it?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-04-29, 23:43:02
He starts with clean maille, then applies the rust preventative.

Then every couple days he sprays it with salt water, and the whole time the maille is left outside on his patio in Florida in the heat and humidity.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Douglas on 2014-04-30, 01:53:54
I don't know what Tuf Glide is, but I find it interesting that Tuf Glide - Marine (which, based on the name, I assume is made specifically for use on the water) is actually more rusted than regular Tuf Glide.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-05-01, 17:04:24
Day 10

http://www.customchainmail.com/2014/05/01/day-10-update-rust-prevention-test-v2/ (http://www.customchainmail.com/2014/05/01/day-10-update-rust-prevention-test-v2/)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Aiden of Oreland on 2014-05-01, 19:01:20
Wow! I am going to have to get some of that Break-Free CLP! Really holding up! That Ezzox looks pretty good too.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-05-12, 18:09:17
http://www.customchainmail.com/blog/ (http://www.customchainmail.com/blog/)

He put the last 4 samples in a salt-water bath and hung them back out.  CLP, Ezzox, Fluid film are still good.  WD-40 finally started to rust.  Now he soaked them overnight in plain water, and they're still looking pretty good.  The only one that is rusty now is the WD-40.  But after 3 weeks, and constant humidity and salt-water treatments with no re-application of the oils, all of those preventatives are working exceptionally well.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2014-06-09, 18:52:32

I just wanted to add this again, since it came up at VARF this season, and Baron de Magnan was asking about where to get these.

Albion uses the grey ultra-fine Scotchbrite pads to do their finishing work, and so you can use them on Albions without changing the finish. They work great for armor as well.

Amazon has them here:  http://amzn.com/B000CQ6I7G  (http://amzn.com/B000CQ6I7G)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Martyn on 2014-06-09, 21:08:57
Good tip, thanks.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Aiden of Oreland on 2014-06-10, 01:13:49
Awesome, I could use one of those.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-06-10, 17:35:41

I just wanted to add this again, since it came up at VARF this season, and Baron de Magnan was asking about where to get these.

Albion uses the grey ultra-fine Scotchbrite pads to do their finishing work, and so you can use them on Albions without changing the finish. They work great for armor as well.

Amazon has them here:  http://amzn.com/B000CQ6I7G  (http://amzn.com/B000CQ6I7G)

I will verify that not only are these great for swords, they are great for armor as well.  I use the same pads for all my stuff be it arms or armor.

Oh, in the custom chainmail rust prevention thing after soaking in a bucket of salt water everything eventually gave in to rusting.  The Fluid Film won with the least amount of rust, the drawback was it's oily to the touch but it's the safest compound and doesn't smell bad.

Eezox gun care did well with the rust, but is the most toxic and smells awful.

BreakFree CLP was mildly oily to the touch, and was in between the others as far as smell and safety.


At the end of the day, any 3 of those are excellent because virtually anything will rust after weeks submerged in salt water.  So pick what you like the best!  Remember, this test was only one application of the rust preventative, followed by nothing but humidity and water, and then finally when they wouldn't give way to that, weeks submerged in salt water.  That's so far beyond what your maille will experience through normal use, so those products work exceptionally well!

http://www.customchainmail.com/2014/05/29/final-results-rust-prevention-test-v2/ (http://www.customchainmail.com/2014/05/29/final-results-rust-prevention-test-v2/)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-06-11, 17:11:24
I second Sir Ian's comment regarding using them on armor. I have, and they work well. I've also used ultra-fine sanding sponges for armor.

I also have one can of Eezox and it's a very potent smell indeed.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Hancz on 2014-11-05, 02:34:21
For my armor, I use WD-40 to get rid of rust and fingerprints, then I use Renaissance Wax for protection. After i'm finished, my armor looks amazing, and is protected for months to come. ;D
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Nate on 2014-11-10, 17:25:33
I use WD-40, let that sit in for a minute or two, then I do my best to remove it. Then I add a coat of Beak free clp
If Im in a pinch I will just use Wd-40.
I will have to get some scotch brites and more Clp soon.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Don Jorge on 2014-11-24, 20:55:45
I have to take off all the rust and re oil my knee and elbow cops pretty soon. For moderate rust and possible pitting would those scotch pads work or do I need something more abrasive?
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2014-11-24, 22:31:05
I have to take off all the rust and re oil my knee and elbow cops pretty soon. For moderate rust and possible pitting would those scotch pads work or do I need something more abrasive?

You can't really remove pitting per se.  Pitting is permanent unless you want to start thinning out the steel.  The only way to remove pitting is to reduce the thickness of the steel by the amount of the depth of the actual pits.  So you could grind them out, but you're really just bringing the rest of the surface of your armor down to the depth of the pits.

Just make sure you stop the rust in the pits and then leave them alone.  I would think having a few pits is preferable to thinning your armor so that it doesn't look pitted.

As far as the surface rust, I would start with a scrubby, if it doesn't work try a green scrubby (lower grit than the gray ones), and then move to lower grit material as needed.  Then work your way back up to restore a nice finish.  Or you could go to a wire wheel to remove rust, but you will need to re-polish your armor with progressive grits.  The better your armor is polished, the smoother the steel's microsurface is, the smoother the microsurface, the less nooks and crannies for water to settle, thus lest rust.  So keeping your armor polished (I'm not talking mirror, just a satin polish) will help prevent rust too.  Try not to let it sit for a long time after wear without attending to it and you'll prevent pitting in the future.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2014-11-24, 23:54:56
^ everything that Sir Ian said.

To get rust out of the pitting, you could try a dremel wire wheel since they are small and won't change the finish on big sections of the armor. I've been using a wire wheel (fine or extra fine, I forgot which) for my armor, and went over the whole surface of everything to give it a uniform appearance. It works, and I clean mine enough that sometimes I don't have the time or patience to do it by hand. If you use the rougher wire wheels, it'll make the armor look like it's been scratched by demonic cats whose sole purpose in life is to destroy your armor; the fine/extra fine wheels are pretty good once broken in.

If you want to do it by hand, some CLR (in the *gray* bottle) is liquid and might get some of the rust out of the recesses of the pitting. Just be sure to thoroughly spray it out with WD-40 before re-oiling. A soft wire brush might help a little, but I've only had to clean pitted armor a few times; once on a suit that I neglected for literally 10 years (old SCA armor), and a few times on pieces I've bought that had some light pitting (which wasn't disclosed when I bought it).
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Rodney on 2014-11-27, 04:49:33
I use the extra fine wire wheel only in extreme circumstances where rust has really settled in.   :-[

Usually a good buffing (fully stitched polishing wheel) with a steel polishing compound (green) is all that is necessary.  (Northern Tools, Harbor Freight, inter webs)

Follow this up with a good rub down of CLP Break-free and you’re all set.  (Gander Mountain, Cabela’s, local gun store, inter webs)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Henrik Granlid on 2014-12-26, 02:05:01
A picture from the aftermath after a very, very rainy yule-faire last weekend:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10882240_10152593949816939_3344071615264693944_n.jpg?oh=1ec775dff7d5e9f92cfc5e5d6910f3b1&oe=5545F839&__gda__=1426180399_88e8b6fc2eaf290fb1e6417c86bf9198)

And people, don't forget to oil or wax your leather as well. We used a cheap but good leather oil to oil up any and all leathers, including chinstraps, latch-wraps and aventail leather as well as belts, handles and scabbards.

For the steel we started with the equivalent of WD-40 (I imagine at least, 5-56 is the Swedish miracle oil of everyday use) for gently rubbing off any surface rust and early oxidation from finger prints and rain. After we were happy with the results, we wiped them clean with thick paper towels and some rags and we put on proper, non-acidic weapons wax on the armour that was to be handled by the public the next day and buffed it back up to a slight shine. The swords were given a nice slathering of fresh oil and put in their scabbards to re-apply the fat from the inside and out and to create a nice, cosy environment for storage.

Unfortunately, I was not wise enough to take an "after" shot. And yes, I know of the massive ammount of completely inaccurate stuff, but even the scrap should be cared for.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Ian on 2015-04-21, 14:51:36
Thought I would toss this in here since it goes along with the discussion.  Last weekend at Marching Through Time, Will showed me these cool little devices that some of you may be interested in.  They're small de-humidifiers, and they have an indicator on them that tell you when the gel absorption crystals inside is saturated.  It says it should take about 2-4 weeks depending on conditions for it to become saturated on the website.  Once it reaches that point you literally just plug it in to a wall outlet and in 8 hrs it dries out the gel crystals inside and it's ready to go again.  They claim these things can be re-used for up to 10 years and they're pretty inexpensive.  Toss one in your armor tub / chest / closet and help fight off corrosion!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LVN7BM0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3T8K1N3PPH96U&coliid=I3DNJPJ2XNNG8H

(https://www.eva-dry.com/media/products/eva-dry-333-mini-dehumidifier_9AB2E334-5056-A342-43C466D84B4232C0_main.jpg)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Mike W. on 2015-04-21, 15:15:34
If they had them, they would have used them  ;)
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir Edward on 2015-04-22, 20:22:24
If they had them, they would have used them  ;)

I like it. A nice period solution. :)

That's very cool. I've seen them before but didn't know how they worked.
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sir James A on 2015-04-23, 00:09:17
Tom Biliter had a similar thing at DoK 1 that I forgot to post about; it was different in that I think they were smaller than that looks, and instead of recharging it with electricity, you put it in the microwave (or oven? I forgot) and it would dry it back out to re-use. They seem very useful!
Title: Re: Rust, preventing and cleaning
Post by: Sampf on 2015-05-25, 01:57:13
Well this makes me seem very simplistic but I use marine oil. Rub it on keeps rust off for about one to two uses then re oil or do it in between battles.
I probably should use wax