ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => The Workshop => Topic started by: Sir Nate on 2013-12-30, 19:23:48
-
I have a warspike from strongblade.com that I got for 75 bucks and really love it but I've been having problems with the pommel... It's a screw on, and as of right now won't even stay on the tang of the blade.
How can I fix and make it better for the future.(like if I want to use it for tinker.)
-
The pictures aren’t real clear but looking at the second picture there looks like a standard nut holding the grip on. Is that original or did you add that later? If it is original, then is the pommel nut too shallow to tighten all the way onto the tang? Or is the threads on the tang and/or in the pommel partially stripped out and not able to tighten?
Possible solutions:
If the standard nut is not original yet needed because the pommel isn’t deep enough to fully tighten onto the tang then you can remove the standard nut and fill the gap with leather washers. Find some thick leather and cut the amount of washers you need.
Another solution:
If the pommel and/or tang threads are damaged or stripped out and you don’t need to ever change the blade out (and at $75.00 it would be cheaper to buy another sword entirely if your blade was broken) then you could simply get some fast setting epoxy and semi-permanently epoxy the pommel onto the tang.
;)
-
will it screw on? if so buy some lock tight
-
or use 'poor boy' lock tight and melt some candle wax into the pommel. ;)
-
Take a picture of the top of the pommel. I'm wondering if the nut is supposed to be on the end of the pommel, rather than inside.
-
1. The thread is loose.
2. The nut came that way.
3 my dad mentioned using epoxy, would that be better Han getting it re threaded?
4. Nut isn't supposed to be on top of pommel.
5. I'll go with sealing it on solution because if I get it re threaded ill eventually have to get it threaded again.
6. I should probably get it re threaded then poxy it. That way it's in stronger when I do.
-
Did you get it new or used? I'm thoroughly confused on that nut. It shouldn't be there. The pommel being screwed down tightly should be more than sufficient to keep the grip from any slight wobble.
Getting it re-threaded won't do anything if it is physically too short to screw into the pommel. Same thing for epoxy; if there isn't enough to keep the pommel secure on the tang, it's pointless. Unless you just want to use it for decoration and not handle it.
-
Hell with threading!! Peen that bastard (sword that is). ;D
-
It was new and used. Last one on shelve so it was kinda used.
The pommel I can get to stay on there.
There is an open area in the pommel that is able to fit the nut in it. Without the nut I can get the pommel to stay on better but It doesnt seem to hold the grip or guard in well.
and I would like to handle it. My father says it should be enough if the pommel is able to stay there.
what does peen mean?
-
It was new and used. Last one on shelve so it was kinda used.
The pommel I can get to stay on there.
There is an open area in the pommel that is able to fit the nut in it. Without the nut I can get the pommel to stay on better but It doesnt seem to hold the grip or guard in well.
and I would like to handle it. My father says it should be enough if the pommel is able to stay there.
what does peen mean?
Hi - new here and I still need to introduce myself, but I thought I would jump in on this discussion as I have considerable experience rehilting swords of various makes, including Windlass, Del Tin, and Arms & Armor, and can give you a few pointers.
To answer the last question first, peening refers to the proper historical method of hilting a Mediaeval era sword, which was to run the tang all the way through the cross, grip, and pommel, and then carefully hammer or "peen" the end of the tang over the top of the pommel, much like a rivet. I do not think that possible with this particular sword, at least not without significant modification. I'll look at the specs on this particular piece and give a recommendation a bit later.
A fairly straightforward fix to this problem, assuming I understand it correctly, would actually be to slightly shorten the grip so that the nut that secures it can be screwed on just a bit further. Possibly as little as 1/16" might be enough, though maybe 1/8" would be better. That should allow the pommel to screw on tightly enough. Shortening the grip could be done with a wood rasp or a course file even, whilst mounting the grip in a bench vise.
Again, hard to say without having it in my hands in my shop, but that is my take on it.
-
Actually, there might be an even easier solution. If my guess is right, the real problem is that the nut used to secure the grip in place is fractionally too tall, and sticks out of the pommel recess ever so slightly, preventing the pommel from screwing on all the way. To fix you could either go to a decent hardware store with the nut and see if you can find one that is the same thread size and hole but dimensionally shorter, or simply take the nut, clamp it in a vise leaving it protruding out and use a file to file it down however much is needed. One way or the other this should be a pretty easy fix.
-
Actually, there might be an even easier solution. If my guess is right, the real problem is that the nut used to secure the grip in place is fractionally too tall, and sticks out of the pommel recess ever so slightly, preventing the pommel from screwing on all the way. To fix you could either go to a decent hardware store with the nut and see if you can find one that is the same thread size and hole but dimensionally shorter, or simply take the nut, clamp it in a vise leaving it protruding out and use a file to file it down however much is needed. One way or the other this should be a pretty easy fix.
Well it's not the nut, It seems to be the pommel because even with the grip and nut removed, I can get it on so it won't fall off but I can't tighten it to a point were it stops. It can keep turning and turning, I think it just needs to be resewn by epoxy seems like a good idea
-
Well there are more refined ways of rethreading the pommel nut. Everything from running the appropriately sized thread tap to using a helicoil, but I neglected to mention them previously because those are specialty materials. Still it seems the threads of your pommel nut are stripped out and without at least running the correct sized thread tap into it, then those last threads will never hold as they were most likely damaged and stripped out from someone attempting to over tighten the pommel nut.
One big question is when you do have the pommel nut on and even though it keeps spinning, is the hilt and grip snug and not able to rattle around?
If they are then I would go with the epoxy since you lack the other specialty materials. ;)
-
I would recommend J&B LiquiWeld over epoxy. Easily found at any hardware store. It's tough enough to repair a cracked engine block, so it should hold that pommel on.
-
Well it's not the nut, It seems to be the pommel because even with the grip and nut removed, I can get it on so it won't fall off but I can't tighten it to a point were it stops. It can keep turning and turning, I think it just needs to be resewn by epoxy seems like a good idea
That, then, is a rather different problem, and Sir Brian's and Sir Patrick's suggestions should then be followed.
However, before doing so, have you considered contacting the seller and see if they will swap out your defective pommel with a new one that might work properly? They might not, given it was a sale price, but it doesn't hurt to ask. They may just send you a new one for free.
-
Actually, there might be an even easier solution. If my guess is right, the real problem is that the nut used to secure the grip in place is fractionally too tall, and sticks out of the pommel recess ever so slightly, preventing the pommel from screwing on all the way. To fix you could either go to a decent hardware store with the nut and see if you can find one that is the same thread size and hole but dimensionally shorter, or simply take the nut, clamp it in a vise leaving it protruding out and use a file to file it down however much is needed. One way or the other this should be a pretty easy fix.
Well it's not the nut, It seems to be the pommel because even with the grip and nut removed, I can get it on so it won't fall off but I can't tighten it to a point were it stops. It can keep turning and turning, I think it just needs to be resewn by epoxy seems like a good idea
The nut will just keep turning and never tighten? Sounds like the thread is stripped. Can you get some better, clear pictures, and we can give you a definite?
-
I'll have more pics either Friday or Monday. (Sword is at other house)
-
Would it also be possible to get a picture of the tang without the cross, grip and pommel in place (i.e. the bare sword). Curious to see how big it is.
-
ya of course.
-
This isnt mine imparticular, But its from the replies on a a review of the sword.
Ill give a link to the review.http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/thread/2157?page=2 (http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/thread/2157?page=2)
-
Rather narrow tang. Would take a lot to make it a truly serviceable sword. Not impossible, but definately some work.
-
Maybe I should just start saving for an Albion. 75 bucks. Not a huge loss.
-
Maybe I should just start saving for an Albion. 75 bucks. Not a huge loss.
If you're genuinely interested in replacing that sword (which I would recommend if you want to be able to use it, that sword's tang isn't really safe to swing or cut with), you don't need to necessarily go for an Albion the first time out of the gate. Let us know and we can guide you pretty well to get a very serviceable and safe sword for significantly less money than an Albion. If you do want to go for the Albion, then by all means, have at it!
-
Yeah that tang is pretty thin. If you fix the pommel problem, just use it as a wall-hanger. On the subject of tangs, another thing you may come across with lower-end swords is a tang that is nothing more than a bit of metal welded to the blade. These are referred to as "rat tail tangs" and are highly dangerous as they tend to snap under even the low strain of merely swinging the sword (sending the blade flying off into space and at anyone in that direction).
-
this tang is part of the sword. not welded. But just pm me some links to other sword sites other than albion. Cause I was looking at the knightly 13th century sword under squire line swords. But do please send me links. Id love to get a better sword soon.
-
I don't own examples from all of these makers, so I can't speak to the quality personally:
Darksword Armory: http://darksword-armory.com/ (http://darksword-armory.com/)
Valiant Armory: http://www.valiant-armoury.com/swords.php (http://www.valiant-armoury.com/swords.php)
Armour Class: http://www.armourclass.co.uk/Data/Pages/Medieval_Main2.htm (http://www.armourclass.co.uk/Data/Pages/Medieval_Main2.htm)
Windlass Steelcrafts is very hit-or-miss, but if you're mainly looking for the looks and not the durability, they can be OK.
Same deal with Hanwei. They're usually not bad for the price, but it varies.
Del Tin makes nice historical designs, but they tend toward the heavy side on nearly every model.
I've heard generally good things about Lutel, but have never owned one.
If you look at KOA, they have a lot of these choices at good prices, including the manufacturers above: http://www.kultofathena.com/swords-medieval.asp (http://www.kultofathena.com/swords-medieval.asp)
-
+1 on Sir Edward's advice.
Most of the Windlass pieces do tend to be inaccurate in terms of looks - mostly designed to appeal to a crowd that is less informed about historical accuracy. Deepeekas are suprisingly a bit better, actually. Hanweis look good though I've not handled any.
I do recommend Del Tins as they look really good (some are quite excellent in terms of detail) and generally well built and sturdy. They can be heavier than they should be, though.
I would especially recommend Kult of Athena (KoA) for any of the above, including Arms & Armor and Albion (?), as they have the best prices. Also, the descriptions feature multiple good quality pictures from several angles to get a better feel for the piece.
-
Maybe I should just start saving for an Albion. 75 bucks. Not a huge loss.
If you can get access to a bench vise, hacksaw, files, and a drill you could do a minimal modification that would at least allow the tang to go through the pommel all the way, which could be either peened over or allow you to secure it with a separate nut. Basically, you would need to cut down the "shoulders" of the blade (i.e. where the blade and tang meet) enough so that you lengthen the tang enough to be able to go all the way through the length of the pommel with a bit extra to allow for peening or securing with a separate nut. If you can get the basic tools and are interested in tackling such a project, I can give you more information on what to do. Might be of interest to others on the forum, as well.
If you wanted to go all out, you could rework the grip, refine the cross and pommel, and do a few other details that will really make the sword stand out, but that is more work. The above is straightforward enough to be doable with a bit of support from others.
-
The others have covered the tang and everything else very well. Only thing I have to add is that if you do fix the pommel on this one, it could be a wall hanger OR fine for dress too. I have the feeling it should be: blade, hilt/crossguard, grip, pommel, nut at the very end. Try that and see how much you have to tighten it down with.
-
A video I made. showing more so the pommel troubles.
Sword ness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfAxQ_IgpW8#ws)
-
A video of me Getting more in depth of the problem.
Watch hole thing. something interesting happened...
Sword ness 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORsZ8HSVzgk#ws)
-
You got your $75 dollars out of it.
-
Yep, the threading is stripped. In the second video, you were probably able to screw it on just pass the stripping, with the grip and nut removed. Have you tried it without the nut?
I'm thinking the best thing is probably to JBweld it together permanently, and just get it as tight as you can before it hardens.
-
I guess. I was thinking, like I said in the vid I can remove that open space. So once I do that I do know a guy that could weld that pommel permantly. But how will I get the grip on? I'll might use epoxy but the welding would be better. Would just have to split pommel. It's wood with leather and there is threading so it shouldn't be too hard. Now I have options to make this sword usable.
Thanks for the help all.
-
Ah! Okay that's an interesting pommel/nut style. I would nip down the stripped thread off the end of the tang, shorten the grip a bit, and go with that. I thought the nut would go on top of the pommel, like this:
(http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/images/woodpics40uy8.jpg)
CAS/Hanwei long sword
-
Ah! Okay that's an interesting pommel/nut style. I would nip down the stripped thread off the end of the tang, shorten the grip a bit, and go with that. I thought the nut would go on top of the pommel, like this:
(http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/images/woodpics40uy8.jpg)
CAS/Hanwei long sword
I knew that's what you were talking about. I should have clarified more on that
-
Fixed, shortened the pommel. It's fine now, will post vid soon
-
Fixed, shortened the pommel. It's fine now, will post vid soon
Nice!
-
Well done! :)
-
pics or.....
-
pics or.....
I didn't forget, digital media on my phone has decided to not like me lately. I'll get Em this week.
"So much time, over such a small thing"
-
Made the vid.
Sword ness 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7AR7cO3X5w#ws)
-
Good job man... and you've started into altering stuff. The gateway to customized gear has been opened! :)
-
It is a dangerous road...leads to making things...just look at my globose for my corrazina being formed last week:
(https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/546977_10101398712351218_1560720094_n.jpg)
-
Lol.
Speaking I making things, I just bought fabric and only have enough for a civilian outfit with my heraldry or a surcoat. What should I make!( civilian outfit would be a long tunic)
-
It is a dangerous road...
Heh...you can say that again. I made one little kite shield back in late-2012, and now...well...let's just say the only parts of my current kit that I didn't make are my shoes, sword, and scabbard. :P
Lol.
Speaking I making things, I just bought fabric and only have enough for a civilian outfit with my heraldry or a surcoat. What should I make!( civilian outfit would be a long tunic)
Make a surcoat, then go out and buy more fabric to make a tunic. Or, alternatively, make a tunic then go buy more fabric for a surcoat. ;)
-
I would make an gambeson first...it is what I did with my 8 yards of linen...gambeson/arming doublet/pourpoint (whatever you want to call it)...then arming cap...then jupon to go over my snazzy armor lol...I will probably have to make some chausses/braes combo soon and a linen undershirt...but I want bleached linen for that!
-
It is a dangerous road...
Heh...you can say that again. I made one little kite shield back in late-2012, and now...well...let's just say the only parts of my current kit that I didn't make are my shoes, sword, and scabbard. :P
Lol.
Speaking I making things, I just bought fabric and only have enough for a civilian outfit with my heraldry or a surcoat. What should I make!( civilian outfit would be a long tunic)
Make a surcoat, then go out and buy more fabric to make a tunic. Or, alternatively, make a tunic then go buy more fabric for a surcoat. ;)
Well I already have 2 templar surcoats, and don't really have much civilian garb other than my gambeson with a belt around it and some tights of the modern day. Lol. But I did buy it with the intent of surcoat.
-
I would make an gambeson first...it is what I did with my 8 yards of linen...gambeson/arming doublet/pourpoint (whatever you want to call it)...then arming cap...then jupon to go over my snazzy armor lol...I will probably have to make some chausses/braes combo soon and a linen undershirt...but I want bleached linen for that!
Well I've already bought a gambeson and arming cap.
-
What kind/color of fabric is it?
-
for surcoat it would be red with purple border at the bottom that raps around, and 3 gold fleurdiles with a gold chevron above them.
basically something similar with the tunic.