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Main => The Campaign => Topic started by: Sir Patrick on 2015-06-01, 01:35:55
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Am I the only one who on some tiny level gets irritated when people at the Ren Faire say they like your "costume"? It's a KIT!!! An as close to accurate as I am able to be at this moment KIT!! The guy with the elf ears in the leather armor with a Conan sword strapped to his back is in a costume!!! Rant over ;).
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The last time I attended the MN Renaissance Festival in full kit a little boy wacked me in the back of the knee with a wooden sword. This surprise attack actually hurt and nearly caused me to spill my beer. The boy’s mother came running over, laughed, and asked for my photo with “little Johnny”.
I swallowed my pride, pain and beer while smiling for a photo with the little heathen. Mommy leveled a parting coup de grace by saying what a nice costume I had and asking what time the next joust was to occur.
Mortally wounded, I could only shrug and point to the schedule of events posted just feet away.
The educational piece that we take to heart as a group is lost on many. Combating Hollywood stereotypes and renaissance festival Dwarf-Ninja-Pirate-Barbarians is difficult.
These last few years I’ve chaperoned performing arts high school kids on day trips. This has given me ample opportunity to people watch, especially considering the MN Ren Fest pulled in 300,000 visitors last year. It’s easy for us to pick out the folks in nearly perfect high-end kits, aspiring folks who have OK kits, fantasy kits, Steampunk costumes, movie inspired costumes, and those that are completely mixed up Dwarf-Ninja-Pirate-Barbarians. We need to remember that the general public has no idea. Their only reference point is usually Hollywood. :(
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Am I the only one who on some tiny level gets irritated when people at the Ren Faire say they like your "costume"? It's a KIT!!! An as close to accurate as I am able to be at this moment KIT!! The guy with the elf ears in the leather armor with a Conan sword strapped to his back is in a costume!!! Rant over ;).
Not the first time, won't be the last time either. :) You educate them or deal. You cannot be offended by those who do not know the difference. Just feel good that they admire it (even if not in the same vantage point or perspective).
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I totally feel you, and I tend to run about in historically plausible gear, hardly accurate. I take issue with it because if you take a moment to really look, you can tell the difference between a costume and kit. If the person is friendly and well meaning, I'll take the time to educate but if they're coming off as a-holes, especially of the drunken variety, I'll nod and keep it moving. No point in getting into it with anyone who is at such a distinct disadvantage.
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Oh no, I don't mean they are rude. They are being quite nice. In fact they usually say this after posing for pictures. It's just as Sir William pointed out, there is a difference between a kit and a costume, so I die a little inside ;)
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Oh, and I don't do the 'walk up and hit' thing- a glare is usually enough to discourage. I'm not a pell.
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I've worked renfaires for 20+ years. The general populace knows nothing of your commitment, time, effort, or research in the creation of your persona(s), nor do they want to. They pay money to come and be entertained, maybe buy some kitchy medieval things, eat turkey legs and drink beer. Kit? Costume? How would they know the difference?
That being said, the brat with the wooden sword? His mom needs to understand that "parent" is a verb...
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That being said, the brat with the wooden sword? His mom needs to understand that "parent" is a verb...
Amen.
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That being said, the brat with the wooden sword? His mom needs to understand that "parent" is a verb...
I like that quote! :)
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I've worked renfaires for 20+ years. The general populace knows nothing of your commitment, time, effort, or research in the creation of your persona(s), nor do they want to. They pay money to come and be entertained, maybe buy some kitchy medieval things, eat turkey legs and drink beer. Kit? Costume? How would they know the difference?
That being said, the brat with the wooden sword? His mom needs to understand that "parent" is a verb...
Sums it up perfectly. :) And I've only done renfaires since 2008.
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There are a lot of rennies who get upset at the use of the word "costume" instead of "garb" or "clothing", since "costume" downplays the authenticity (and perhaps durability) of really properly made stuff. I don't usually worry about it too much. But it throws me for a loop when I'm wearing 60+ pounds of armor, and they still say "costume". It may not be the most authentic stuff (far from it in fact), but considering I can fight in it, it's functional equipment.
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Yeah, it can be kind of irksome. My idea of "costume" is knitted mail, plastic helmet, and a surcoat with a zipper up the back, as well as one's choice of either tennis shoes or sandals. But I don't let it get to me for the reasons Dimitry listed. Most people at RenFaires don't care, and that's fine.
Plus, dealing with all the unwashed, uninterested masses makes it all the more sweet when you do run into somebody who knows what's up. :)
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Plus, dealing with all the unwashed, uninterested masses makes it all the more sweet when you do run into somebody who knows what's up. :)
Two years ago, while in civilian clothes, I noticed a gentleman in a sweet mail hauberk. This was not butted, nor poorly fitted off-the-rack mail. This was very nice wedge riveted mail that was well fitted; noticeable from 50 feet away. I made my way over, politely introduced myself and complimented his kit.
He was genuinely pleased that someone had noticed so we “talked shop” for quite some time. That is, until we both realized that our wives were bored with the “shop talk”. :-[
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Plus, dealing with all the unwashed, uninterested masses makes it all the more sweet when you do run into somebody who knows what's up. :)
Two years ago, while in civilian clothes, I noticed a gentleman in a sweet mail hauberk. This was not butted, nor poorly fitted off-the-rack mail. This was very nice wedge riveted mail that was well fitted; noticeable from 50 feet away. I made my way over, politely introduced myself and complimented his kit.
He was genuinely pleased that someone had noticed so we “talked shop” for quite some time. That is, until we both realized that our wives were bored with the “shop talk”. :-[
Love when that happens; it is how I got here to begin with. I still remember that day; Sir Ed was dressed as a stylishly appointed nobleman, Sir Brian as a Teutonic knight. We started talking shop, they passed me a MC card and the rest is history. :)
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I'm not usually put off too much by general public ignorance about medieval stuff, it's hard enough for dedicated enthusiasts to get accurate info much less the general public. It's when my girlfriend calls it a costume that gets me. I have a bascinet made by Jeffrey Hildebrandt that's a reproduction of the Wallace Collection A69 helmet, with hand made aventail, painstakingly historical hand sewn linen liner, the works. And my girlfriend (who lives with me and knows all about my obsessions) called it a "hat". The sound that I made was kind of a groan of dismay, and that was enough for her to correct herself, but I was like... Well, I don't know sh** about her designer purses either... so I can concede that not everyone can be knowledgable about everything, especially when it's stuff they don't really care about. For most people medieval stuff is just a curiosity. Never forget that. The minutia about our passions are only important to us and others like us. What's important to get across to everyone else isn't all the material details, it's the enrichment and broadening of their mind and conscience that comes from the ideas, ideals and thought behind it all.
Though I did make the point to my gf by calling her designer purse a "bag" next chance I got. ;)
Scott
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Plus, dealing with all the unwashed, uninterested masses makes it all the more sweet when you do run into somebody who knows what's up. :)
Two years ago, while in civilian clothes, I noticed a gentleman in a sweet mail hauberk. This was not butted, nor poorly fitted off-the-rack mail. This was very nice wedge riveted mail that was well fitted; noticeable from 50 feet away. I made my way over, politely introduced myself and complimented his kit.
He was genuinely pleased that someone had noticed so we “talked shop” for quite some time. That is, until we both realized that our wives were bored with the “shop talk”. :-[
It's pretty rare for me to run into anyone who is as enthusiastic about armor as me, but it has happened. It's really great to meet new people who share your passions and who can offer an honest, knowlegable critique of your impression.
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Renn Faires are the realm of costumes, fairy wings and elf ears. You can't expect the paying customers to know the difference, or be able to tell if you are a visitor vs an employee. You will get some of this even at living history events. Just grin bear it. What else can they call it that is more accurate? It is not a uniform. They could say "outfit," but that is not much better. "Kit" is the only thing that might be appropriate, but that is not in the lexicon of most Americans.
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Only thing I have heard someone say to me about my kit is "Look honey a knight" Although it wasn't much I was still so exited haha
I feel bad for the people who actually ask me question of which there are few but because of that lack of questions any one who asks gets a history lesson.
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Well, here in Denmark we have a lot of people doing the LARP thing. Running around in the forests every weekend, painted ork green, wearing elves ears, troll costumes.... you know what I mean... We call those people roleplayers here in Denmark, while people like us - my fellow knights - are reenactors...
When we are at a medieval market, we often hear the phrase "roleplayers"... When we do, we grab hold of the "ill educated persons" and teach them a little lesson our selves.
No offence toward roleplayers, but they wear aluminum chainmail, paperthin armour that dents when you sneeze on it, and they use silicone swords....
When we let people hold some of our chainmail, their eyes grows double in size, while they make mumbling "wow" sounds.... sometimes we let them try it on, and it certainly does impress people... When we tell them that we wear 60+ punds of armour while we fight, and that we use realistic steel swords - except they are blunt of course - they are starting to get the difference between a roleplayer costume, and a reenactorkit.
Most often it is more than enough to let them hold my houndskull helmet with aventail - which are around 15 pounds - to get them convinced that this is the real deal :D
Well, you allways has to remember that people dont mean it in a bad way, they just dont know any better. And we never have any problems with people beeing rude or stupid... So it is allways nice to educate a little ;D
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Well, said Sir Sondergaard. I accidently attended a "Medieval Faire" last week when visiting Crecy Battlefield in France. I had always thought that we are behind the curve in the US being so far from Europe. I was wrong. There were just as many goofy dressed knights, some with a heavy Game of Thrones influence. Some were trying hard and looked pretty good, but the fellow in this pic was the norm.
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We all started somewhere :)
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We all started somewhere :)
Indeed. I would also add that there are plenty of LARPers who, while not going for historical accuracy and it's good when they see what the renactors must endure, make a good effort to wear more than just costume stuff.
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We all started somewhere :)
Indeed. I would also add that there are plenty of LARPers who, while not going for historical accuracy and it's good when they see what the renactors must endure, make a good effort to wear more than just costume stuff.
Look up Mythodea if you want to see some really cool LARP kits; I call them that because they are so much more involved than a simple costume. As for a start- mine was a butted maille vest with a black cross done up in blackened rings (the rest were the usual satin) center of the chest, and a black satin cape to top it all off. Black dungarees, Tims and a black mock turtleneck rounded out the ensemble. Thought I was doing big things! lol
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I'm suprised to hear such a difference in quality between Danish larps and Swedish larps. Honestly, a lot of Swedish larpers have waaay better kits than most Swedish Knight troupes (we have very few full tilt jousters).
Here are some pictures of one of the larger campaigns.
https://www.google.se/search?q=krigshjärta&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAWoVChMItI_xlbLfxwIVhiVyCh2yrApC&biw=800&bih=1280
(couldn't make a clickable link for some reason, it will need copying into a browser window, or simply Google Krigshjärta)
As far as armour denting If you sneeze, please don't measure authenticity by weight until you start wearing hardened steel rather than mass fabricated pieces with barely the correct forms. We all love our hobby and there is no point in looking down at other aspects of it.
I personally love wearing plate, I'm actually swapping out my plastic Corrazinna for a proper globose breastplate, even if my armour is for sca fighting, because I like it better. However, there is no measure of manliness or worth in the weight of armour you wear. Unless you order plate from Per Lillelund Jenssen and maille from one of the very few handmakers in Europe, you're not more authentic than the larper with improper shapes to the plate he wears or the ren-faire enthusiast that loves his aluminium coif with a poor fit. Your kit may have more research behind it, and it might look more like the real thing, but, your stuff is still modern and there will always be somebody more authentic than you out there. We all do what is fun and what works for us, and the more you know, the more nuances you will discover.
To the average goer though, those nuances won't be seen, and instead, you have a very nice costume. Talk about it with love when informing them and don't devaluate somebody else's stuff just because you consider your own to be superior. A knight should be humble and learning new things should be fun.