ModernChivalry.org
Miscellaneous => The Sallyport => Topic started by: Sir Wolf on 2012-03-24, 02:04:41
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http://germanherald.com/news/Germany_in_Focus/2012-03-23/1389/Knight_Clubbing (http://germanherald.com/news/Germany_in_Focus/2012-03-23/1389/Knight_Clubbing)
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That sucks! Makes me want to get a bascinet with the segmented style occularum like this... at least for live steel use. I suppose a very narrow tip and a very lucky shot (or unlucky) could still possibly get through, but I'd like my odds better.
(http://www.wassonartistry.com/images/armor/helmets/IMG_0711.JPG)
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Youch! Yes, this is one reason modern fencing masks are still a good idea for most people who get into this stuff. But it's true, if you're trying to be authentic, it's hard to be sure your eyes are safe.
Something that can bridge the gap a little is the fencing helmets from Windrose:
(http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/images/armour_images/Fiore.jpg)
http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=131 (http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=131)
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weld some perf plate on the inside of the helmet if your that worried about it ehhehe
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That's what they did on Full Metal Jouster.
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weld some perf plate on the inside of the helmet if your that worried about it ehhehe
That's one of the reasons I'm occasionally checking eBay for an old beat up fencing mask so I can cut a section of the perforated steel mesh out and have it welded onto the ocularium of my great bascinet. Another way to avoid such tragedies is to have an adequate safety tip on your sword. ;)
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or, now or comes to mind for those of us with common sense, or a little self control!! i've done "live steel" combat. that was just stupidity
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Well yes, everyone should stay under control. But accidents happen, no matter how careful you are.
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When I was a kid growing up in Tampa we used to go to the Tampa Bay Area Ren Fest every year and witnessed one of the theatrical jousters have this happen to him with a splinter of shattered lance. A couple years later my mom was taking photography courses at the local college and there was a guy in her class with a deformed eye who went by 'Lance.'. Turned out it was the same guy! He was very lucky in that the splinter did not penetrate his brain, only the eye. Next time I visit my parents I'll have to see if my mom still has the photos she took of the hit and the aftermath.
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When I was a kid growing up in Tampa we used to go to the Tampa Bay Area Ren Fest every year and witnessed one of the theatrical jousters have this happen to him with a splinter of shattered lance. A couple years later my mom was taking photography courses at the local college and there was a guy in her class with a deformed eye who went by 'Lance.'. Turned out it was the same guy! He was very lucky in that the splinter did not penetrate his brain, only the eye.
Something similar happened back in the early 90's at the faire I used to have a booth at. A lance shard went through the occularum of the guys close helmet. He was taken out on the gurney, helmet on as the shard stuck out of the occularum of the helmet. He got very luck as it slide in under his eye ( it rode the bone surface of the occuarum of the skull ) rather than in into his eye so he keep the eye.
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ya i know things happen. 2 friends were spear sparing and one hit the breastplate and he blocked upwards, it slid up and hit his eye. was ok after the hospital check but was scary
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Then of course there was a jousting fatality over in Europe a few years back. Same thing. Lance through the eye into the brain.
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True but I heard they violated a few of the essential safety precautions when that occurred. ???
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In this case it was a Rawlings Synthetic sword that did the damage.... and a helm that had eye slits that were too big. Even though I hear they may not allow face thrusts it's still true that shite happens.
Makes me glad for the SCA regs about 1" slits and 1.25" weapons. I actually won a Crown fight by stabbing a guy in the eye slot.
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Holy crap, I didn't notice it was a Rawlings sword. They're actually pretty soft plastic (too soft for actions in the bind, but very safe). I'm actually pretty surprised now. That's a pretty good thrust to get a fairly flexible plastic blade all the way into someone's brain.
But yeah, the eye slots are really too big for this. If you're using untipped trainers, there really needs to be a perf-plate or something.
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Or a Pembridge or Klappavisor.
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In this case it was a Rawlings Synthetic sword that did the damage
I was very surprised by this. As with any high risk hobby like say rock climbing or hang glidding, theres always a bit more danger ( like driving a car isn't ) but we take extra precautions, which work 99% of the time so we become accustomed, to things going okay, like driving until you have a wreck, but when theres a mishap, because we take extra steps ( like a synthetic waster ) its always a bit surprising because they work fine most all the time. We forget that theres still inherent risk because our extra safety steps normally alieveiate that.
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This is part of the reason I was still pushing for modern safety gear for our renfaire longsword demo. I think we need to make sure we always use some for of perf-plate, even if it's welded inside the occularia of a period helm.
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Wow, a Rawlings? :o
That guy's occularums were enourmous tough. I would go for the perf mesh inside a period helm idea.
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but the thing is guys fight in open faced helmets all the time with steel even. i wanna know what kinda thrust did that. seems excessive to me.
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but the thing is guys fight in open faced helmets all the time with steel even. i wanna know what kinda thrust did that. seems excessive to me.
True, BotN uses steel and a lot of the fighters wear bar-grills, open faced sallets / bascinets etc...
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ive fought w steel in a spangenhelmet. even staged planned and free for all, the head is just simply a non issue when fighting.
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BOTN doesn't thrust I believe and Laurin doesn't allow face thrusts/strikes for the non-knight class, however I hear these guys did allow body thrusts. One bad parry and you have a head shot.
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body thrusts are in most steel fighting. it's in part of the 5s or 8s depending on what group your with.
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Fighting with open faced helms is really only viable in stage combat, and that includes improvised stage combat. Meaning, you're not doing a real martial art. If you're fighting true to the arts, there are plenty of thrusts, and the face is one of your primary targets. Hence the need to have perf-plates.
Having open faces or bar grills is simply a big risk even if the rules disallow thrusts, because a bad parry is all it takes. So long as the sword tip is smaller than the openings, there's a danger.
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BOTN doesn't thrust I believe and Laurin doesn't allow face thrusts/strikes for the non-knight class, however I hear these guys did allow body thrusts. One bad parry and you have a head shot.
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering too. Seems silly to go for a face thrust when you know the size of the blade is smaller than the opening. Something seems a little "off", and I'd wager it's on the side of the media not really knowing exactly what happened and just trying to repeat details of things they don't 100% understand.