ModernChivalry.org

Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir William on 2010-10-13, 20:53:54

Title: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-13, 20:53:54
I give you greetings, milords.

Conall's thread about fine helmets put to mind the assemblage of the ultimate kit.  If money were no object, what would you get, who would make it?

I'll start.

1. A flat-ringed wedge-riveted Norman hauberk by Erik D. Schmid - for those of you who aren't familiar (and all of you have probably heard this name before, certainly Bill has as this guy's on SFI) this guy is a demon for historical accuracy w/regard to mail and he is well-versed in the subject.  This hauberk would come with an integral coif.

That by itself would probably break my little bank...but it would suit me from the Conqueror's time all the way up thru the Crusades I'd imagine.  Something I've always fantasized about, this full-on hauberk.  Saw one on sale on eBay once, it was butted though.  Went for less than $500 too if I recall correctly.

I can't come up with a suitable plate armor choice...I mean, you can't just toss any old plate on top of that, it'd have to be top of the line, right?

I look forward to your responses!
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-14, 15:07:04
Guess you guys already got yours then, eh?  lol
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-14, 15:55:52

Heh, I'm waiting for everyone else to talk about it. :) The truth is, my kits will never be done, and I'm constantly on a quest for cost-effective ways to improve it, which is hard because I'm picky. I agree, if I could afford it, hiring Erik D. Schmid would be the way to go. For plate armor, I'd want Robert MacPherson (http://www.lightlink.com/armory/armory.html) to do it since he has the same kind of obsessively accurate approach. As to what it would look like? I have no idea, because I like so many different things. I'd need like 5 or 10 different kits. :)
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-14, 16:48:40
I think we're in full agreement, however- if you could only have ONE, what would it consist of?  I'm checking out Mr. MacPherson as I do love a man who is obsessive about his craft- usually, they tend to be better at it than their contemporaries.

I especially like his Field and Tilt armor, in the style of Anton Peffenhauser; I would go with that, but I have to say, your buddy that crafts his own armor, I'd want something of his too.  His stuff was just wildly attractive to me.

Kits...so time consuming (not to mention money)...but it is something I consider more important than a hobby...I'd wear it every day if it were acceptable at my job and society-at-large. 
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-14, 18:20:08
for those that don't know Mac is the worlds leading armourer. he has more stuff in museums than they have finds i think heheheh.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-14, 18:41:57

Yes, I heard that in one of the museums they had, for a time, confused some of his work as being historic originals, eventually straightening it out later. That says something. :)
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-14, 19:12:24
Indeed it does; he makes some truly jaw-dropping stuff, just from the pics I could see.  After perusing some of the armor links on this site (talk about a treasure trove) I think, in lieu of Mr. Schmid, who is probably incredibly backlogged, I'd go with a welded hauberk and integral coif from Welded Chainmail (since I know better, it doesn't feel right typing that but there you have it), Mac for the plate parts, at least some of them.  Seen some really nice helms at Armour and Castings...I looked at them all but forgot to grab pics of everything so...guess I'll just have to go thru it all again!

Not like that'd be a bad thing.

Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2010-10-14, 19:36:31
I'd get a riveted mail hauberk made of flat rings and alternating solid rings made out of wrought iron along with a coif of the same style that has a chin and lower face guard. It would be blackened to give more of a dark look. I'd add a Wisby coat of plates type 1 to go over it, most likely covered with dark brown leather almost black. I'd have elbow and knee cops as well as as Wisby gauntlets. I'd get splinted bracers along with splinted greaves to protect my arms and legs. Helmet i'd want would be a black painted kettle helm of the 1200s design so it would look a bit outdated but still useful. Weapons I'd have would be an old Norman sword with brazil nut pommell and a curved crossguard. I'd also have a Danish axe along with a larger than average heater shield with my coat of arms on it. To protect my mail from the rain  I'd have a black cloak with a red cross on it.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir James A on 2010-10-14, 21:14:51
I'm very much a fan of this harness: http://www.armorymarek.com/public/default/userfiles/image/armours/023.jpg (http://www.armorymarek.com/public/default/userfiles/image/armours/023.jpg)

It has a set of full legs with sabatons as well. A good arming coat with voiders and mail skirt, and I'd be quite giddy.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Allan Senefelder on 2010-10-14, 22:25:04
Quote
I especially like his Field and Tilt armor, in the style of Anton Peffenhauser; I would go with that, but I have to say, your buddy that crafts his own armor, I'd want something of his too.  His stuff was just wildly attractive to me.

He made that harness for Kelly Bailey,owner of Warhorse Production jousting troupe. They've done the show at The Sterling Renaissance Faire near here for years. I had the privilage of doing some maintenance work on parts of this harness for Kelly when we still had a booth at faire and it is a REALLY nice suit.

" Yes, I heard that in one of the museums they had, for a time, confused some of his work as being historic originals, eventually straightening it out later. That says something. "

That was The Met. The harness was a week from going onto the floor before the makers mark was ID'ed. They now keep all three of Mac's marks through the years on file.

" for those that don't know Mac is the worlds leading armourer. "

Even Mac admits that Billy Rayford in the UK is the man. Billy had a piece sold by Hermann Historica Auction House a while back http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=50899

Last I had heard Mac wasn't doing as much armour, he was dabbling in all sorts of things like restoring 16th century clocks and wheelock mechanisms.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Ancelyn on 2010-10-14, 23:04:18
I just don't know what I want yet. This is still early days for me. I still want to do the hounskull helm, so probably a mix of plate and mail from somewhere in the 14-15 c period.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-15, 00:05:55
im not one 2 stay w just 1 kit so this is hard....

i would say a mid 14th cent look, maybe leaning towards the end a lil.

Mac made armour with Eric made mail. hound skull with aventail, riveted hauberk with coat of plates, 3/4 steel arms, leather w/ splinted legs, greaves with mail sabatons, fingered gauntlets with small cuffs. family crested surcoat over the coat of plates. albion sword with christian fletcher scabbard and belt. hand made arming jacket with hose/ braise and pourpoint. and some custom turnshoes.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Brian on 2010-10-15, 11:31:38
For my ultimate I'm getting closer all the time. I like what I have so far but of course would love
a properly fitted haubergeon from Erik D. Schmid and those uber sexy wisby gauntlets with brass rivets of course...(http://modernchivalry.org/pictures/wisby_blue_1.jpg)

...and eventually a CoP to complete out my ultimate 14c kit.  ;)

and as for plate I would love it if John (the black knight at CRF) would make me a custom set!  ;D
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir James A on 2010-10-16, 15:00:13
Ah, surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but the "Toby Capwell" harness is always at the top of my list too. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Toby_Capwells_armour_001.jpg)
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2010-10-16, 20:26:23
For my ultimate I'm getting closer all the time. I like what I have so far but of course would love
a properly fitted haubergeon from Erik D. Schmid and those uber sexy wisby gauntlets with brass rivets of course...(http://modernchivalry.org/pictures/wisby_blue_1.jpg)

...and eventually a CoP to complete out my ultimate 14c kit.  ;)

and as for plate I would love it if John (the black knight at CRF) would make me a custom set!  ;D
ME WANT! Those gauntlets are rather nice, but I dunno what the sizing on them is or how much they run for, thankfully my hands are rather large so I think the sizing wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Patrick on 2010-10-16, 21:08:33
Ah, surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but the "Toby Capwell" harness is always at the top of my list too. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Toby_Capwells_armour_001.jpg)

I've been looking all over for those pics, but couldn't remember the name!  I'd take two of those.  Seriously, I don't know what I'd want, but I know the Mercenary Tailor would be making it.

Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 16:12:40
Ah, surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but the "Toby Capwell" harness is always at the top of my list too. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Toby_Capwells_armour_001.jpg))

First I ever heard of it, but what a beautiful harness!  And I AM the Black Knight, that would suit me to a TEE.  Thanks for sharing Sir James...so Toby Capwell's the maker, or that was made for him?
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Ancelyn on 2010-10-21, 16:43:40
That's not a suit of armor, THAT's a Gundan robot! Didn't one of them fight The Dr. in "E-space"?  It is so hard to be sure with all the dust, the lion people runing around and the mad spaceship captain. ;D
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-21, 17:39:37
i think jeff hedgecock made Tobys stuff. at least i think so. he made his new suit anyways. jeff is at historic enterprises online
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 18:17:26
Thank you, Sir Wolf.  The link, in case anyone else is interested:  http://www.historicenterprises.com/

Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 18:26:53
Ah, surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but the "Toby Capwell" harness is always at the top of my list too. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Toby_Capwells_armour_001.jpg)

I've been looking all over for those pics, but couldn't remember the name!  I'd take two of those.  Seriously, I don't know what I'd want, but I know the Mercenary Tailor would be making it.



Allan's a fine armorer and a prince among men- a lot of us have his wares already and they're well made.  You know, that's a great idea because we know him and his wares and it'd be a great way to get a custom fit suit of armor for a good price. 

The idea had occurred to me but I was thinking of parade/tournament armor...I want all my field armor to be from MT for the most part; currently all of my plate parts are MT made.  Except the helm.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Allan Senefelder on 2010-10-21, 18:40:10
Quote
i think jeff hedgecock made Tobys stuff. at least i think so.

Tobey's suit is by Mac http://www.lightlink.com/armory/ludwig.html I think. This harness from Mac's site is very similar but not exactly the same.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Allan Senefelder on 2010-10-21, 18:46:09
Yeah it was made by Mac, heres the mayarmoury thread about it when it went up for auction at Hermanns. http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=7687&highlight=capwell
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-21, 19:09:47
Whoever made it obviously knows the craft.  Allan, do you take custom orders?  I'm on the site and I didn't see anywhere that said either way...
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Edward on 2010-10-21, 19:23:52

Man, that kit is pure armor porn. I wish I could get some Mac armor! *drool*
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-21, 21:12:21
thanks allen, i wasnt sure whos it was but knew jeff and toby were good friends etc. or at least they jousted together so i figured jeff made it. thanks for the update!
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Allan Senefelder on 2010-10-21, 22:08:37
Quote
Man, that kit is pure armor porn. I wish I could get some Mac armor! *drool*

Honestly Macs stuff is even worse close up. We worked on alot of Mac stuff over the years at faire for the jousting troupe and his work is crazy nice.


Quote
Whoever made it obviously knows the craft.  Allan, do you take custom orders?  I'm on the site and I didn't see anywhere that said either way...

We used to do single projects at a time but with the switch build to order to cope with the economy we just don't have the time avaliable. We do some customization of our exisiting products from time to time http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2010253&id=1200387794&l=286af0e1b2

Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-22, 00:09:55
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2010253&id=1200387794&l=286af0e1b2#!/photo.php?pid=31170795&id=1200387794 hey awesome,.  hey Red Knight, the knee on the left is right up your alley!
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Patrick on 2010-10-22, 00:23:43
MUST have....MUST have....
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Allan Senefelder on 2010-10-22, 12:55:05
The guy who owns those knees actually put together a pretty nice kit for himself http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31331085&l=fed8c2a3d8&id=1200387794
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31331084&l=da7f3b2fa4&id=1200387794
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31331083&l=5f6ab295f0&id=1200387794

He assembled it carefully with items from several makers ( helmet and brig/COP by Steel Mastery, brass accents on helmet by some one whos name unfrotunately I can't remember on The Armor Archive and he did the belt and scabbard himself and we did his elbows, knees, greaves and bracers as well as spaulders ( and the twelve heat blued scales that he used as decoration on his belt). He's replacing the leather hourglass demis with with heat blued steel hourglass gauntlets with brass accents ). This is an SCA fighting kit like Sir Wolfs buddy and both reflect the very satisfactory results that can be had with some time and attention in assembeling an very decent period geared kit for SCA combat.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir William on 2010-10-22, 14:45:01
Wish I could access FB...I know there's armor porn just waiting! 
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2010-10-22, 16:00:59
wow that is nice. really nice.

great work as usual allen
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir James A on 2010-10-24, 14:46:47
Mac = Robert MacPherson in case someone wants to google him :)

There's an AA post about how Mac had done some armor for a museum, and that they got his stuff mixed up with the actual historic pieces, and were only able to sort it out after they found out that Mac had used a few different armorers marks (the one on the piece in question wasn't his current mark). They keep a file with his different marks to prevent that now.

Toby Capwell's harness has been sold at least once, possibly twice. Everyone usually calls it the Capwell harness since it was originally made for him.

I'll see if I can post some of the facebook pics here later this weekend, if they don't look like they're meant to be private.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Allan Senefelder on 2010-10-24, 17:32:06
Quote
There's an AA post about how Mac had done some armor for a museum, and that they got his stuff mixed up with the actual historic pieces, and were only able to sort it out after they found out that Mac had used a few different armorers marks (the one on the piece in question wasn't his current mark). They keep a file with his different marks to prevent that now.


Mentioned this earlier, it was The Met Jim.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-08-14, 23:54:07
I am happy with my total kits. I have 4 different looks I use & I pick n piece my armor parts to match my look with the function it is meant to serve (combat, historical, SCA, etc). Have one for 14th century jousting attire, 2 for 12-13th century Crusader (depending on character), Sovereign Lord (SCA Persona), and/or 12th-13th century kit for English Longbowman/Archer or Ranger. Can't improve them other than having better plate armor & I don't want to extend my kit into the 15th or 16th century Renaissance era. Like the Crusader era & not much for the Dark ages.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Leganoth on 2012-08-15, 03:41:32
Something like this would be VERY nice, am actually trying to replicate this as best I can, having a tought time on the knee cops and greaves though, other than that i found most of it
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-08-15, 08:51:30
Something like this would be VERY nice, am actually trying to replicate this as best I can, having a tought time on the knee cops and greaves though, other than that i found most of it

I like this look. Go for it!!! :)
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-08-15, 15:55:51
These give me inspiration.

(http://www.larsbrownworth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Varangian_Guard.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wb7uRrX5Tpo/T1QSSHaLNAI/AAAAAAAABS4/eJfRaG5ra10/s1600/Norman_knight.jpg)
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-08-15, 16:34:06
Something like this would be VERY nice, am actually trying to replicate this as best I can, having a tought time on the knee cops and greaves though, other than that i found most of it

I remember that, and like the look. I'd just go with traditional legs in it's place, the rest is reasonably pseudo-historic and looks beastly.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2012-08-15, 21:30:21
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3707/ospreyenglishmedievalkn.jpg)
I want something similar to this.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir Patrick on 2012-08-15, 21:38:35
I'd say you're nearly there, Sir Ulrich.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Leganoth on 2012-08-16, 01:20:00
Something like this would be VERY nice, am actually trying to replicate this as best I can, having a tought time on the knee cops and greaves though, other than that i found most of it

I remember that, and like the look. I'd just go with traditional legs in it's place, the rest is reasonably pseudo-historic and looks beastly.

Was looking around, I found everything except the leg armor, any you would recommend?
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-08-16, 21:43:33
Something like this would be VERY nice, am actually trying to replicate this as best I can, having a tought time on the knee cops and greaves though, other than that i found most of it

I remember that, and like the look. I'd just go with traditional legs in it's place, the rest is reasonably pseudo-historic and looks beastly.

Was looking around, I found everything except the leg armor, any you would recommend?

Almost positive it would have to be a straight up custom piece. It's not very practical from a construction perspective, and really, would probably be best to make out of molded ABS or something like they do for movie props. Doing that in steel would probably hit 4 figures, easily.
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Leganoth on 2012-08-17, 07:02:45
Something like this would be VERY nice, am actually trying to replicate this as best I can, having a tought time on the knee cops and greaves though, other than that i found most of it

I remember that, and like the look. I'd just go with traditional legs in it's place, the rest is reasonably pseudo-historic and looks beastly.

Was looking around, I found everything except the leg armor, any you would recommend?

Almost positive it would have to be a straight up custom piece. It's not very practical from a construction perspective, and really, would probably be best to make out of molded ABS or something like they do for movie props. Doing that in steel would probably hit 4 figures, easily.

Jesus!! I dont want the EXACT piece, just something similar
Title: Re: Your Ultimate Kit
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-08-17, 12:50:46
Something like this would be VERY nice, am actually trying to replicate this as best I can, having a tought time on the knee cops and greaves though, other than that i found most of it

I remember that, and like the look. I'd just go with traditional legs in it's place, the rest is reasonably pseudo-historic and looks beastly.

Was looking around, I found everything except the leg armor, any you would recommend?

Almost positive it would have to be a straight up custom piece. It's not very practical from a construction perspective, and really, would probably be best to make out of molded ABS or something like they do for movie props. Doing that in steel would probably hit 4 figures, easily.

Jesus!! I dont want the EXACT piece, just something similar

You could get basic schynbalds (front greaves), and some "soupcan" knee cops (they have that flat "flaired edge"), and see if somebody would make the "middle" piece that's in-between them, but you'd probably have to send them both of the other pieces so they can make it fit right. Then there's the fluting to do, since that's "maximillian" style, and I've never seen (historical or repro) maximillian style armor with just the front schynbald plate or a soupcan knee - they're centuries apart in style, maximillian be an early 16th century style when "full plate" was the norm.

It's doable, but not easy. If you go with the "standard" kind of repro legs, with just that front schynbald plate, you can do it for ~$350, ballpark. I don't think it would throw off the look much either, unless you're comparing picture to kit, and even then, only people who have seen the picture *and* know you're going for that look would even have a chance at knowing it isn't what the original was... so it's a question of "inspiration" or "replication". :)