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Main => The Armoury => The Workshop => Topic started by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-18, 17:57:55

Title: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-18, 17:57:55
Ironic that you expanded upon the subject on the cost of an excellent scabbard for I have been considering upon a viable alternative:  ;)

I’m not sure if anyone has posted a link to this site yet but it is very informative at what is involved with making a great scabbard, http://yeoldegaffers.com/project_scabbard.asp (http://yeoldegaffers.com/project_scabbard.asp) which inspired my contemplations to make my own core and then turn it over to an extremely talented local leather craftsman and reduce the overall costs and hopefully bypass the extremely long waiting lists for the top quality/pricy scabbard makers. So do you think my scheming will work?  ???
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-23, 14:44:19
I thought it best to splinter this topic off from the Albion Price Hike topic in The Armory section and use this as a general area of references and progress reports. Besides the above link to the very informative guide to making a scabbard, here is a link to bending wood as described as one of the methods to making a wood core.

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_1/55000/55471/1/print/55471.pdf (http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_1/55000/55471/1/print/55471.pdf)

Also: I started off with several poplar wood slats from Home Depot:
http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Composites-Boards/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbqmc/R-100384933/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051 (http://www.homedepot.com/Lumber-Composites-Boards/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbqmc/R-100384933/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051)

Since these boards are only ¼” thick you don’t have too much sanding to do in order to get them around 3/16” as recommended in the guide I originally posted. Steaming sounds like a bigger challenge and I hope I don’t have to heat up the wood that much to get the necessary bend, but I’ll find out.  ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-24, 14:43:29
Another site discussing methods of bending wood including 'cold' bending.  ???
http://www.tai-workshop.com/english/tech-2(b)-e.html (http://www.tai-workshop.com/english/tech-2(b)-e.html)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-05-24, 21:48:33
i've made a few in my day. its not hard. :) try it
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-25, 13:14:20
Oh I definitely will on Monday. I almost have everything prepared and think I'll try soaking the slats in boiling hot water in the tub. I do have to notch out the top of the slats for the Talhoffer's particular crossguard which has a central nub and I'm thinking of edging the inside of the scabbard around the point with thin leather cord to prevent the wood glue from encasing the blade during the bending & binding process.

Btw my new chape for the scabbard came yesterday!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-05-25, 13:16:34
Wow, that is a beautiful piece, Brian...I can't wait to see the end result.  Where'd you get it, if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-05-25, 13:42:40
That looks like one of the ones from RQP.  Very nice! Can't wait to see the final result!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-25, 15:09:28
Yes it's a RQP. I'll have to put in another order once I decide upon which buckles and belt tips to have with the suspension. :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Bernarr on 2012-05-28, 10:41:59
I was thinking about doing this as well, it's just proving difficult to find a leather craftsperson around me
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-28, 19:52:57
If it works out well with the leather craftsman I intend to commission then I would be happy to relay and encourage you to seek him out. Right at this moment I'm off to do some more work on the scabbard's wood core. :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-29, 00:15:12
Some more preparation work on the slats before soaking and bending them. The Albion Talhoffer blade is particularly challenging first attempt with its diamond cross section. I accidentally split one of the slats while squeezing them together too hard and had to prepare another one.  >:(

Note I got a decent shape on the mouth of the scabbard for the Talhoffer's unique crossguard. :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-05-29, 12:09:33
Excellent progress so far, Sir Brian.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Gerard de Rodes on 2012-05-30, 16:36:01
Nice work so far Sir Brian.

Have you checked these guys out for nice brass and bronze work;
http://www.re-enactment.co.uk/index.php?cPath=58_63_85_167 (http://www.re-enactment.co.uk/index.php?cPath=58_63_85_167)

G.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-30, 17:04:50
Thanks for the excellent link Sir Gerard! They definately have a wider selection of chapes, buckles and strap ends! Awesome!  :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-05-30, 20:39:24
Will you write up a How-To when done?
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-05-30, 21:38:57
Maybe not so much as a full blown 'How To' but more of a confirmation of some of the techniques mentioned in the link I originally posted. ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-06-01, 18:47:07
A couple of big pots full of boiling water in the bathtub for an hour was sufficient to achieve this kind of bending. Instead of a coat of oil to protect the sword blade while sandwiched between two wet boards I smeared it with some petroleum jelly which worked very well and cleaned up nicely. (Your sword is safe and sound Sir Edward! Thanks again for the loan!)  :)

Next step was to glue the slats together but I definitely need more clamps. Here is approximately $23.00 worth and I could have used a few more. - No such thing as too many clamps! I'll find out how well the wood glue does in a day or so.

Next up is cutting off the excess wood!
- Yikes that just sounds like a Lorena Bobbitt  reference!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-06-01, 19:10:51
That's coming along nicely, Sir Brian!  LOL @ Lorena Bobbitt

Now there's a sobering thought.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-06-01, 19:25:58
could have also covered the sword in saran-wrap?
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Patrick on 2012-06-01, 21:06:29
On Gaffer's site he cut the scabbard to shape prior to the bending/glue up. I never could figure out how he got that hold. Your method of glue first cut later makes more sense.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-06-01, 21:59:28
could have also covered the sword in saran-wrap?

That along with using cord to wrap it is a viable alternative but the clamps are easily set and adjusted. :)

On Gaffer's site he cut the scabbard to shape prior to the bending/glue up. I never could figure out how he got that hold. Your method of glue first cut later makes more sense.

I'm sure his method works best for him since he's probably made a bunch of scabbards, mine seems best suited for a novice like me! ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Bernarr on 2012-06-02, 07:26:50
Lookin good!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-06-02, 15:43:44
could have also covered the sword in saran-wrap?

That along with using cord to wrap it is a viable alternative but the clamps are easily set and adjusted. :)

On Gaffer's site he cut the scabbard to shape prior to the bending/glue up. I never could figure out how he got that hold. Your method of glue first cut later makes more sense.

I'm sure his method works best for him since he's probably made a bunch of scabbards, mine seems best suited for a novice like me! ;)

nooooo i meant wrap the sword in the wrap while the wood formed around it to keep the damp wood off the blade
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-06-02, 18:10:44
Doh!
ich verstehe!

Yeah that would work as well but then you wouldn't have the wonderful anxiety of slicing yourself on a sharp blade! ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-06-03, 01:01:26
That's coming along nicely, Sir Brian. Can't wait to see the finished product!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-06-22, 13:07:40
Wow, that is a beautiful piece, Brian...I can't wait to see the end result.  Where'd you get it, if you don't mind me asking?

"End" result as in scabbard "tip"?? No puns intended, right?? lol :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-06-22, 14:34:42
Umm...no, not as I intended when I wrote that.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-06-26, 12:22:59
UPDATE:

I am now on my third attempt at the wood core.

The first one did not have enough bend to accommodate the blade’s diamond geometry.

The second attempt involved much more prep by sanding out a channel along the centerline of the core where the blade would slide. This seemed to be successful however for some inexplicable reason during the final drying stages the wood warped out of true and would not allow the blade to seat fully.

Now I am working on a third attempt with probably even more preparatory work. – Sigh really starting to appreciate why the high cost for custom scabbards!  :-\
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-06-26, 13:31:42

Yeah, this is why I don't mind paying someone who knows what they're doing. But it's also a learning process. If you make scabbards every week, I'm sure it gets a lot easier.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-06-26, 14:18:20
It is a lucrative venture, once you get your technique down pat, or so I'm told.  Judging by the price of even entry level scabbards- very lucrative.  Also time consuming...
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-07-12, 21:08:50
UPDATE: The Third Time is the Charm!

Success! I completed the scabbard on the third attempt. I made sure to do plenty of preparation of the inside of the scabbard to accommodate the geometry of the blade. Soaking the two halves in boiling hot water for 35 minutes gave the wood enough flex to make the needed bend.

After drying I noticed that I actually over sanded the inside upper portions so I glued two leather strips along the inside centerline which worked out perfectly. I can hold the sheathed blade completely upside down and give the scabbard a moderate jiggle before the blade will steadily and smoothly be withdrawn by gravity. I am waiting for the twin sets of buckles and tips from Raymond's Quiet Press before shipping it all off to Brent @ T-Star leather for the final phase.  :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-07-12, 21:59:07
Huzzah!

You're now the official Order scabbard maker. ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-07-12, 23:04:43
Huzzah!

You're now the official Order scabbard maker. ;)

I see a lot of potential here. :)

Awesome! Congrats!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Ian on 2012-07-12, 23:58:21
Huzzah!

You're now the official Order scabbard maker. ;)

That's it!  It's official, I'll be shipping some blades your way next week :) haha

In all seriousness though, that really looks good!  Can't wait to see it all completed.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-07-13, 07:29:48
 
Huzzah! You're now the official Order scabbard maker. ;)
Err, I dunno... :-\
That's it!  It's official, I'll be shipping some blades your way next week :) haha
...wait WHAT? - SURE! Everyone can just send me all of their blades... ;D
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-07-13, 11:44:37
hahahahhahah

looks great man!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-07-13, 14:31:20
...wait WHAT? - SURE! Everyone can just send me all of their blades... ;D

lol!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-07-13, 15:19:48
...wait WHAT? - SURE! Everyone can just send me all of their blades... ;D

You can send them to me too!  lol
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-07-13, 22:30:33
Excellent work, Sir Brian. Salutes!! You spent much time in shop class as a child.  ;D
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-07-14, 10:49:35
Thanks all!

Excellent work, Sir Brian. Salutes!! You spent much time in shop class as a child.  ;D

Actually Lord_Dane not so much...hence the need for me to make the scabbard THREE times! ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Patrick on 2012-07-14, 22:16:14
You're inspiring me to start making something.....
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Gerard de Rodes on 2012-07-15, 13:07:15
Well done Sir Brian. I`m sure the finished scabbard will do all your hard work justice.
G.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-07-16, 14:07:33
Thanks Red Knight and Sir Gerard! :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-07-16, 18:31:10
Thanks all!

Excellent work, Sir Brian. Salutes!! You spent much time in shop class as a child.  ;D

Actually Lord_Dane not so much...hence the need for me to make the scabbard THREE times! ;)

Perfection takes time & much practice. :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-09-25, 17:11:04
Here is the preliminary draft layout of my new scabbard.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-09-25, 17:28:40
why a double buckle and 2 ends?
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-09-25, 17:38:37
Because that's what I wanted and I always liked the look of the dual buckles and tips.  ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-09-25, 17:48:39
Here is the preliminary draft layout of my new scabbard.

wow, that's going to rock!

The double suspension I think helps a lot with longswords.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-09-25, 18:18:58
I think it helps with swords in general, but especially for longswords.  I like it, Sir Brian...can't wait to see the finished product.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-09-25, 21:28:37
That's going to look great
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-09-26, 05:59:04
Looks good Sir Brian. :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-09-26, 13:53:28
Sir Brian, what sword did you make that for?  I forget.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-09-26, 13:55:16
Sir Brian, what sword did you make that for?  I forget.

Sir Brian has an Albion Talhoffer on order, which supposedly shouldn't take too much longer to arrive.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-09-26, 13:57:44
Yes Sir Edward was kind enough to loan me his Talhoffer so I could make the wood core. :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-09-26, 15:37:27
Oooh, I like that sword.  Not as much as I like the Crecy, but it is up there...along with much of their catalog.  LOL

One of the things I'd do if I ever hit the lottery is buy two of every sword they have- keep one and gift the other to some deserving Knight.  Naturally my Brothers would have their pick of which one they would like to receive as a gesture of my knightly largesse.  :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-10-01, 17:51:08
Well is here the finished scabbard! Now I just need my custom green colored gripped Talhoffer and all will be right with the world! Do you all think this scabbard is worthy of my new Albion? I'll post more pictures from various angles after I receive my Albion. :)

The final cost for the leather work was $500, the regular cost of the wood  for the core and the belt hardware was approximately $75, so the total cost was just under $600.00!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-10-01, 18:10:22

I got to see this in person yesterday, and it's truly a work of art. The griffin detailing on it is fantastic. I can't wait to see it together with the sword.

Come on Albion, hurry up! :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-10-01, 22:20:17
wow niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-10-01, 22:25:52
Caught the pictures on facebook, it came out great, congratulations.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-10-02, 00:46:44
Well is here the finished scabbard! Now I just need my custom green colored gripped Talhoffer and all will be right with the world! Do you all think this scabbard is worthy of my new Albion? I'll post more pictures from various angles after I receive my Albion. :)

The final cost for the leather work was $500, the regular cost of the wood  for the core and the belt hardware was approximately $75, so the total cost was just under $600.00!

That came out beautiful Brian. My congrats on a nice piece of workmanship. :)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Ian on 2012-10-02, 01:27:40
Stunning Sir Brian!  That is really gorgeous!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-10-02, 14:38:13
Wow, that looks pretty spiffy, Sir Brian!  Did they let you in with that shillelagh? 

Methinks you could've done the leatherwork yourself...you did the hard part already (crafting the scabbard itself).  This from a man who pays others to do the same so take it with a grain of salt.  ;)

Where's the sword?  lol  Maybe you'll get yours before I get mine!  Scabbard's done already though.  Should I post pics?  I wonder.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-10-02, 15:39:20
Wow, that looks pretty spiffy, Sir Brian!  Did they let you in with that shillelagh? 

Methinks you could've done the leatherwork yourself...you did the hard part already (crafting the scabbard itself).  This from a man who pays others to do the same so take it with a grain of salt.  ;)

Where's the sword?  lol  Maybe you'll get yours before I get mine!  Scabbard's done already though.  Should I post pics?  I wonder.

Yeah isn’t it ironic that security will let us in with our shillelaghs/ walking sticks/ staves but not our faux swords!  >:(

The core was a bit labor intensive but only because I was learning as I did it. Brett Smith of T-Star leather of course is a master craftsman of the highest order and I am very happy he was willing and able to take on this work. I think he’s excited to do more so start working on your wood cores for all your blades in need of a scabbard!  ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Lord Dane on 2012-10-02, 15:50:53
Wow, that looks pretty spiffy, Sir Brian!  Did they let you in with that shillelagh? 

Methinks you could've done the leatherwork yourself...you did the hard part already (crafting the scabbard itself).  This from a man who pays others to do the same so take it with a grain of salt.  ;)

Where's the sword?  lol  Maybe you'll get yours before I get mine!  Scabbard's done already though.  Should I post pics?  I wonder.

Yeah isn’t it ironic that security will let us in with our shillelaghs/ walking sticks/ staves but not our faux swords!  >:(

The core was a bit labor intensive but only because I was learning as I did it. Brett Smith of T-Star leather of course is a master craftsman of the highest order and I am very happy he was willing and able to take on this work. I think he’s excited to do more so start working on your wood cores for all your blades in need of a scabbard!  ;)

They have to allow walking sticks otherwise some people will make claims of ADA discrimination against the family of MDRF lawyers' weapons policy. LOL :) What's next?? No crutches or wheelchairs??   
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-10-03, 16:14:14

Yeah isn't it ironic that security will let us in with our shillelaghs/ walking sticks/ staves but not our faux swords!  >:(

It is indeed; since that is a definite weapon, but the faux swords are just decoration.  Of course, if you referred to it as a quarter staff, it'll get banned before the day's out most likely.

Sort of brings that whole 'zero tolerance' policy that is currently in our nation's school systems in lieu of good old-fashioned common sense.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-10-03, 18:50:01
Alas I must wait a couple more weeks for my blade! As per Mike Sigman's email update on my order:
Quote
You are the next Talhoffer out the door and Bob is running your blade either tomorrow or Monday. It will be going into the next heat treat. You should have it in a couple weeks bud. Sorry for the lengthy wait.

Well the good news is I will definitely have it for the closing weekend of PARF!  ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-10-03, 19:25:25
That's awesome man...is that at the same time as the closing weekend of MDRF?
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-10-03, 20:14:11
Nay Sir William! PARF has always had their closing weekend a week after MDRF’s. They typically get a large MDRF patron invasion on that weekend from all us die-hards that don’t want the season to end!  ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir William on 2012-10-04, 18:31:23
I know its a stupid question, but where in PA is it held?  My sister's in Philly and has mentioned it in the past.  Maybe a Saturday excursion?  I'd have to check with my better half on the logistics of pulling that off.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-10-04, 19:32:16
PARF is located in Manheim which is 15 miles north of Lancaster and 13 miles east of Hershey, PA. ;)
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Gerard de Rodes on 2012-10-17, 22:03:03
Truly a thing of beauty Sir Brian  ;)
G.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Humphrey on 2014-01-03, 21:29:44
Sir Brian,

I realize that this thread is very old, but I have a question. I'm glad I found this thread because I was on the same waive length as far as heat bending the wood.  After soaking the slats in boiling water, could you clamp it around the sword without glueing it and allow it to cool to the shape?  My though is, that if the sword seizes in the slats or is too loose, some very thin spacers could be added when it is glued up and allow more space.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2014-01-06, 01:57:47
Sir Humphrey,
We never worry or mind about resurrecting old threads here since as new members join it's good to update or review some of the information that has wondered these halls of cyberspace! ;)

I didn't glue my two heat bended wood slats until they were thoroughly dried out (about 3 days). This allows for any weird warping the wood may do as it dries as what happened on my second attempt. ;)

If you find the blade too loose before you glue the slats together then I recommend you cut and glue a couple of pieces of felt on the inside of the scabbard mouth. If it is too tight you can just sand it a little more before gluing the slats together.
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Humphrey on 2014-01-06, 19:38:08
Thanks Sir Brian,

One other question:  Did you keep the sword blade in the wood for those two days as it dried.  If not, how long did you leave it in before removing it?

Thanks again for the great info you provided here!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2014-01-07, 08:34:25
I removed the blade after I had set enough of the clamps to retain the proper shape and still remove the sword. The reason I did it that way was because it wasn't my sword and I was concerned about the blade getting rusted since it was Sir Edward's which he had loaned to me for that purpose because the blade I had on order was the identical. If I had my blade on hand when I was making it then I would've left the blade in the scabbard to ensure it dried in the correct shape. ;)

Are you going to do your own leather work on your scabbard as well?
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Humphrey on 2014-01-07, 14:04:10
Sir Brian,

I have the same concern for my sword blade.  I think I will give it a liberal coating of grease and then a wrapping in Saran Wrap to make sure moisure stays off the blade.  I plan on doing my own leather work too.  In fact, that this not as intimidating to me as getting the wood core right.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Scabbards
Post by: Sir Brian on 2014-01-07, 14:12:58
Awesome! Please post pictures on your progress! :)