ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Great Hall => Topic started by: Eva de Carduus Weald on 2014-08-12, 19:09:10
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Greetings fair gentles all. My modern name is Melyssa however, my SCA name will likely be Eva and thus is the name I shall call myself in terms of my quest of knighthood. Historically there have been celebrate female warriors but no female fighting knights that I know of. I might well be missing information, I admit I have not researched this topic near enough to be considered knowledgeable, much less expert.
I have, from the time I can remember, always been enthralled by the very concept of chivalry and the romantic ideals of knighthood. I do not mean love romance, I mean the concept of protecting everyone, regardless of income, standing, or really anything else. I never wanted to be princess, I wanted to be the warrior on the horse, in shining armor, charging into battle for the ideals of protecting those who cannot protect themselves. The concept of honor came next, the thought of respecting your foe, not entering into any altercation with hate, giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, and always believing that no matter what, people are always worth a second chance.
It is only recently when I truly began my quest to find others who hold similar ideals. To see if chivalry, true chivalry was truly dead or if there were others who felt as I did. It is this that found me stumbling upon this site. I am glad I found such a place as this and hope to show myself worthy of the spirit of knighthood, even if the title might never be bestowed upon me by any monarch.
In service to all life and the defense of it,
Eva
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Greetings and well met,
There are several female knights in the SCA. I personally know two of them and have fought them many times. Syr Madigan and Sir Slaine of the kingdom of the outlands!!
Huzzah on your decision to make the long journey unto being a knight..
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Sir Raoukinn of Antir.
http://www.youtube.com/user/rauokinn (http://www.youtube.com/user/rauokinn)
Sir Mari Alexander of the West.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschine/search?query=mari (http://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschine/search?query=mari)
Sir Brynne McClellan of the West.
NZ vs USA Women's Polearm IMCF 2014 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xSeMBLaEmw#ws)
6/23/12 West Crown Round 4 Sir Brynne vs Kean (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RQtiq62cPM#ws)
There are not a huge number of KSCA who are women but IIRC all the women listed above have won royal tourney's by their own hand. One female KSCA even won the Crown of Ansteorra(?) while fighting her hubby in finals.
Welcome!
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Welcome to the Modern Chivalry forums. I hope you find what you seek among the members here, and in your journey with the SCA. If you look to historical inspiration, although she wasn't literally knighted, never overlook the Maid of Orleans, Joan of Arc. She was perhaps one of the most influential medieval warriors in history, and certainly inspirational, starting life as a peasant and then ultimately leading France to victory in the Hundred Years War.
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Welcome to the Forums, Milady. We have quite a few SCAdians here, and plenty of very knowledgeable folks; I'm sure you're in good company. :)
And speaking of Joan of Arc, I ran across this short article the other day that might be right up your alley:
http://www.medievalists.net/2014/07/20/ten-medieval-warrior-women/ (http://www.medievalists.net/2014/07/20/ten-medieval-warrior-women/)
Though they left out one of my favorite famous fighting females*: Agnes Randolph, i.e. "Black Agnes".
*Huzzah for alliteration!
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Glad to see you've made it to the forum.
Yes there are many SCA peoples here, you will fit right in.
As for being knighted by a monarch. Some of the first groups of knights had it so to become a knight you would have to be knighted by the leader of that say order.
While kings and queens could knight people. The leaders of knight orders could too.
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Huzzah and welcome! It is always great to hear of somebody's quest to follow the path of chivalry and bring it to our modern world. You will find no finer place to fit in. If you require any help, be sure to ask! We are all willing to give hand. You will make a fine addition to our community, friend.
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Hail and well met, M'Lady!
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Hail and well met Eva de Carduus Weald and welcome to the forum! :)
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My deepest thanks for the very warm welcome. I know of many female warriors in history who, once I had learned of them, became some of my heros. By no means did I not have male heros as well of course. :)
I know I can be a knight in the SCA if I chose to do so but my husband has informed me that he would be very worried that I would become seriously injured should I pursue armored combat. And thus I do not have the option of knighthood. He is okay with rapier so I shall be pursuing that as soon as i have the time to do so, but knighthood in the SCA sadly cannot be mine. This will not preclude me from living by the virtues of knighthood, it simply means that officially I cannot follow that path as I cannot do the heavy combat, well I could do the heavy combat but it would create strife at home and I love, respect, and care about my husband too much to put him through that.
I have some friends on FB who are knights of Ansteorra and other kingdoms. I have learned a lot from them and felt there had to be others I could learn from as well to continue the path to personal knighthood. I would love to have an order to which I could belong but I don't know of one that doesn't require the type of combat that would spiral right back to that spousal concern. :)
On the upside I am learning western swordwork from a friend who has instructed ARMA for 8 years and have done martial arts, I took traditional Tae Kwon Do and got to recommended first dan. I had a splatter of other arts as well.
I have been fascinated with armored combat since I could remember my mom reading the Arthurian legends and Robin Hood to me. Swords, shields, and the like drew me in like nothing else, but who wants to be the one saved? I wanna be the one doing the saving! :)
I have the cloth for my nicer version of soft garb and a sword. I plan to, over a long time, gain armor bits piece by piece and I plan on getting a chain mail kit. But this will take time.
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Welcome to the forum!
Although SCA combat might not work out for you, I'm glad you're looking into western martial arts as an alternative. There are many ways to approach HEMA/WMA, and it's possible to to take a relaxed, scholarly approach to it, if that's what works best for you (likewise, it's also possible to take a more athletic/competitive role with it as well, depending on what suits your tastes). The armored side of this can be quite fun as well.
I'm sure you'll find the forum community here to be extremely friendly, supportive, and helpful. You'll fit right in. :)
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As Sir Edward says, the armored fighting can be lots of fun. Here is a picture of Jessica Finley who is an inspiration not only in HEMA but for a harness as well which is AWESOME! :)
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Thank you! I am kind of just learning right now and enjoying the process of getting to use the sword, even if it is a wooden practice sword, and seeing how it actually works rather than what you see on TV and in movies. Honestly it is exactly as I once heard it described, an extension of the body. I have hit something of a wall though so that will take some time to get over.
To be honest competition is fun but not really my thing. I like the practical side of fighting and using my skills to ever improve for myself however, I also understand the difficulty in making such a practice safe enough where all parties should walk away unscathed. To me it is something like a dance, albeit one that changes with every step. You should read your partner and they you. Much like any martial art.
I love the idea of armored combat but, honestly, that isn't really what drives me. Mostly I like the shiney shineies of the armor and looking spiffy first and foremost when it comes to the *look* side of things. The steel I can be happy with demonstrations and with messing about with learning the sword. I think for me the martial side of things is an understanding of the mortality. A sword/axe/dagger/spear/etc.... is made for killing. That is it's intended purpose and life is one of those things each person puts a different value on. I am happy enough to appreciate the art without needing to actually try to open an armored opponent up like a can of sardines. :D Not that I think anyone in the modern times would try that in friendly competition of course.
There are a lot of SCA and otherwise women out there who amaze me with their skill, men too actually. The practice and work it would take to pull some of the moves they do is incredible. Power is a tool but skill, that can win it all. I always love to watch the competition and congratulate both the winner and everyone else who competed.
For now I am concentrating on the side I live day to day. I feel I can always improve that, the code I live by and how I live it. :)
Oh and I had a look at the 10 most famous women warriors link, wow. There were some strong ladies way back when!
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SCA heavy my seem nasty but it's mostly bruises & contusions at most with the odd vertebrae going out.
SCA combat is safer than Taekwondo sparring. I have years of experience in both and I've never broken a bone nor been knocked out on the SCA field. I've done both in TKD. Thus why the insurance for it is so very low.
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Welcome to the forum my lady. :D You will find all you need in resources here very helpful to your efforts. We are a diverse bunch with similar interests and each with our own talents. Any of us will be glad to assist you.
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Welcome to the forums, lady.
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Thank you all very much for the welcome! I truly feel as though I have found a great group of people with similar interests indeed. I hope to learn a lot from all of you and can only hope that I have something of value to offer as well.
As for heavy combat for SCA and TKD, I agree for the most part. I honestly feel that if I were armored well and practiced diligently that I could do very well on the HC fields, the hard part is that I don't want to have hubby worry as much as he would worry. He might change his mind in the future, he might not. I just hope that when I get into rapier that I will be able to prove my skill and ability in the martial field and will just have to have my armor be for the pretty factor for a while, likely a long while.
I am currently in the process of getting my name and device registered. I am very excited about that actually. I sculpt custom wax seals and the first device I want to sculpt is my own. :D I am also marshaling thrown weapons and will likely try to become a marshal in all of the many and varied fighting arts from siege to combat.
On a side but somewhat related note to the desire to help others and protect them, I was actually in the process of becoming a police officer, however it didn't work out simply due to the multiple career side of things, however the desire has never gone away. I suppose this is another avenue to fulfill that need. Sorry if I am rambling on. :)
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Yeah, sometimes it takes time for loved ones to warm up to the idea of the combat arts. As with most things, fears can often be dispelled over time through exposure, so it's quite possible that after some time with the rapier combat, he might be more on board with other sword arts as well.
After Sir Brian and I have both managed to demonstrate an ability to lose thumb nails, my wife now does a fingernail check when I get home from combat demos and other events. :)
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Oh I think over time it is possible but he needs the exposure. The problem is he is a scientist in the biological side and follows the medical papers as they come out on certain things like concussion, breaks, ligament strength, etc and has pretty much said he will support it if I train to the level of an elite athlete. As much as I would enjoy the fighting, I am not willing to spend that much of my life pumping iron, running, and practicing to get on that level. It is a flaw in my character I know but it is the truth. Although if I did I would probably be one hell of a fighter. As it is I am fast, though not strong.
As far as losing finger nails, ouch! I can fully understand why she would do a fingernail check! Still it sounds like you guys have fun! :D
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Hail and welcome!
Historically there have been celebrate female warriors but no female fighting knights that I know of.
There aren't a plethora, however, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Hatchet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Hatchet)
I love the idea of armored combat but, honestly, that isn't really what drives me. Mostly I like the shiney shineies of the armor and looking spiffy first and foremost when it comes to the *look* side of things.
Nothing at all wrong with putting on armor to look good. Renn Faires are a great place for that. I was in armor about 15 years ago for SCA, took a decade-long hiatus, and back in armor but not for SCA. At first it was for the "cool factor" so kids can see a real knight (long personal story), then participating in speeches / demonstrations at faire, and then Sir Nathan and I decided we wanted to hit each other with wooden swords in the most friendly of manners, and we've done armored combat for a couple years now. :)
I'm not overly competitive as I have a tendency to lose constantly, but from a scholarly perspective, the raw thrill of having a full harness on and full-speed combat is beyond words. Whether or not you fight well, or fight at all, armor is a thrill in and of itself.
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Ohhhhh *runs off to read the Wikipedia link!*
As for armored combat, don't get me wrong I love a friendly fight and since beginning to learn the western version of sword-craft I am in love with it. I have to say though that SCA armored combat and honest to whatever you believe in true medieval fighting are night and day. Gouging the eyes, ripping open the weak parts of the armor with a stiletto, a good punch to the head with a gauntlet, all viable and more. The point was to walk away alive and leave the other guy so much meat. Honorable combat or no, at the end of the day the one who walked away wins. And the point was to win.
I enjoy a good spar though and I learn so much from each one!
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I stabbed my mum in the belly at Coronet to win my first of 5 rounds of that tourney. Got vid of it too. :)
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Well met my lady!
I stabbed my mum in the belly at Coronet to win my first of 5 rounds of that tourney. Got vid of it too. :)
That's hard core, taking out your mom!
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Hey, I say if she entered the field then she signed up for it. Did she tell you well fought at the end of it? :D
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Ohhhhh *runs off to read the Wikipedia link!*
Unfortunately, there's not a huge amount of info out there about the Order of the Hatchet. But it was an actual knightly order of women. I think most information about it indicates that it was created specifically for them, and no new members were inducted, so it died out with them. But it's a wonderful piece of history.
As for armored combat, don't get me wrong I love a friendly fight and since beginning to learn the western version of sword-craft I am in love with it. I have to say though that SCA armored combat and honest to whatever you believe in true medieval fighting are night and day. Gouging the eyes, ripping open the weak parts of the armor with a stiletto, a good punch to the head with a gauntlet, all viable and more. The point was to walk away alive and leave the other guy so much meat. Honorable combat or no, at the end of the day the one who walked away wins. And the point was to win.
What makes this even more interesting, is how it ties into Chivalric ideals as well. We had a discussion in another thread about whether it is honorable or not to give up an earned advantage (such as taking out someone's arm in SCA combat), and face the opponent on equal footing after clearly taking the lead.
Is it more honorable to fight "nice", and less honorable to fight "dirty"? In a Victorian sense of honor & chivalry, perhaps so. But the further back you go, looking into the earlier parts of the medieval period, "chivalry" is more of a warrior ethos, and it's simply considered more chivalric to win, and win decisively. Going for the eyes or throat isn't dishonorable, it's tactics. :)
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Yeah I loved reading about the Order of the Hatchet and honestly I think regardless of gender a warrior is a warrior, it isn't gender specific. Granted biologically men and women have different advantages/liabilities in certain areas, men develop muscle faster and tend to be bigger, which is a decided advantage in combat however, not all men are built the same and not all women are built the same and sometimes there is crossover. That's genetics for ya. Saying that, when you have an opponent who is much bigger, much stronger, and with a greater reach, what do you do? If you manage to get an advantage do you seriously give that away? That is your one shot to walk away, it would be suicide to give that advantage up. As for the other guy, the big one, is it really dishonorable to use the advantages he has? What is he supposed to do when fighting a weaker opponent? Try and lose muscle mass, skill, and height? This is where being realistic vs following romanticized ideals by people who have never fought.
Personally, as one of those who tends to be the weaker opponent, I then get better by focusing on skill, strategy, and strength when I can. You make openings, you use the other guy's strength against him, you fight smart. If you get an opening, use it. If you get an advantage then use it. Seriously, if you are on the field and you need to win it for your king then you fight with every opportunity that comes your way. You don't have to be a jerk about it, especially as this is not the period we are re-creating and we are not trying to kill our opponents, and hopefully vice-versa. So no, in my opinion using an advantage you managed to obtain is not dishonorable. What would be dishonorable would be if you haven't started yet and you hit the guy in the head before his helmet is not even on yet. That would be the height of dishonor to me. Agreeing to fight an opponent and then complaining about how they won and thus cheated that would be dishonorable, lying about the fight or someone else, that would be dishonorable. At least to me. :)
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Hey, I say if she entered the field then she signed up for it. Did she tell you well fought at the end of it? :D
She grumbled a bit about it. She's got ego issues and hates having me beat her. She hates having anyone who came up after her beat her. It has to do with her belief that Helm Time should be enough to win a knights belt, if you have the rest of it, regardless of how much skill, or lack there of you have. Also she blames not being Knighted on her being a woman because the Council has a prejudice against women (sometimes this is a factor, but not in her case).
It's worse when she dies to something I told her she would die to (the belly shot). And loses cause I'm the one that killed her.
2011 May Coronet - Siobhan vs Ivan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gojSBD_euKc#ws)
In the pic I killed her by cutting to her ribs & thrusting to her face. It was beautiful. :)
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Good gracious, if you are not winning regardless of time spent fighting then the answer is train smarter. I love to win but not when I didn't actually earn the win. Still she fights pretty well. As for knighthood, isn't the whole idea behind knighthood, honor in arms. In other words, it is being honorable in and out of combat. Looks like you had fun though. :D
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Welcome to the forum M'lady.
Timothy
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Thank you! I am afraid I was out of town last week so was not online but I am back!