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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Timothy on 2013-08-26, 01:11:10
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Hi am looking at a number of items and found this on ebay for $69.00
The Knights Templar Dagger and Leather Sheath. Medieval Collector / Knife
is this a good piece/price?
Thanks
Tim
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And
This one for $105.00Knight Of Templar Sword Blade length: 33 1/2" Overall length: 41" Handle length: 9" Brass.
Handle comes with sheath.
440 Stainless steel blade.
Thanks
Tim
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or this one for $170.00 Knight Of Templar Sword Blade length: 33 1/2" Overall length: 41" Handle length: 9" Brass.
Handle comes with sheath.
440 Stainless steel blade.
Thanks
Tim
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What would be your intended use? Stainless steel swords are designed as nothing more than 'wall hangers.' Basically, they're just display only objects. Stainless steel is brittle in long sword blade lengths, and would be very dangerous to use. Swords like that also generally have what are called 'rat-tail tangs.' A thin dowel of steel is quickly welded on to the shoulders of the blade to fix a grip to, so if you hit anything with it or even just swing it hard, the tang will separate and you'll have a whirling flying stainless steel blade-o-death helicoptering it's way across the yard.
So, as long as you intend to just use these for display only, then they'd be perfectly fine.
If you're interested in something more historical or something you could us for cutting, or just to say 'this is the real deal,' many of us here are pretty big historical sword geeks and there's a lot of knowledge between us. We could advise you if you let us know what appeals to you. Real swords are constructed very differently than stainless steel display pieces.
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I'd suggest save your money and get something better. I have the same sword and it handles like crap and I regret purchasing it. You can get a hanwei tinker for about the same price of 170 and it's much better, or you could get the practical norman which is also period for the early crusade, not as good as an albion but an excellent starter sword for a kit.
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Thanks
Ok for use stainless steel is out. What should I be looking for in the $200-$400 range?
Tim
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Theres a lot of swords on Kult of Athena that are battle ready. Hanwei makes good starter swords, some of Deepeeka's newer stuff i've never seen but it looks better from the pics I have seen. Albion or Arms and Armor are the best you can get but they're pricey. Del Tin are also rather good and historically accurate but not as much as Albion of Arms and Armor. Windlass is a hit or miss, but most of their stuff is not as good as the rest, I prefer Hanwei to Windlass personally but a few of their things are rather good like their type XIV sword which can be a project sword to make well but thats a bit late for your time period.
Heres a link to KOA's stuff http://www.kultofathena.com/swords.asp (http://www.kultofathena.com/swords.asp)
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Sir Ulrich, Thank you.
I will take a look.
So how about this one I was looking at this yesterday
it is by Legacy Arms.
Knights Templar Sword for $279.00
Specifications:
Blade length: 34.5"
Handle/Hilt length: 8.5"
Overall: 43"
Balance Point: 5.0" Below Hilt
Weight: 3 lbs. 1.4 oz.
Note: The blade is 3/16" 5160 high carbon steel with a full hefty tang. We tested it on several! 2"x4" standing up and split them! with no marring on the blade! . We the n tested it on a 2"x4" cross ways resting on each side on a solid rest and came straight down. It did not cut all the way through but it did cut deep and again did not mar the blade or edge. We then went to the ultimate test Steel-to-SteelSM. We did 9 good blows, it nicked the blade but did not break the blade not break the tang or handle in either of these test.
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Those ones are rather much heavy crow bars that handle nothing like a real sword would. Sure they're tough but what exactly kind of sword are you looking for? Like what period, my vibe is crusades if so I could help you good there as thats an era I reenacted in.
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Hello Sir Ulrich,
Yes Crusades but I am flexible. I am more interested in learning right now more than portraying anybody.
Hope that helps
Thanks
Tim
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I've always felt a Del Tin is a good entry level sword. Full-tang and peaned so they don't rattle and the blades have good flex without being floppy. The ones I've owned have all handled and cut well. My 5140 was my first sword, and after nearly 20 years is still one of my favorites.
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Ah well for starters theres no such thing as a "crusader sword" there are such a things as Oakeshott classification. http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_oakeshott.html (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_oakeshott.html)
It's a bit of a read but it's well worth it. Most of Europe used similar stuff and I would suggest getting a type X as they're rather good for early medieval which could portray anywhere from the first to the third crusade well into the early 14th century. Would be one sword that could span you a few eras.
Yeah I would second on the Del Tin option, you'll pay a bit cause you gotta commission a scabbard but I have handled one in person and rather liked it. Best to not spend money on the cheapies like I have, the only thing I can really do now is help others buy the best stuff now.
http://www.kultofathena.com/deltin.asp (http://www.kultofathena.com/deltin.asp)
I also know where to get good riveted maille for low prices and gambesons as well as good shoes and helms if you're interested.
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Thank you Sirs Patrick and Ulrich,
I have looked over Del Tin type X and the 12th Century Medieval Sword. I like them both and I think either one will do very nicely.
Thank you for the reference to Oakeshott I will certainly use it.
Tim
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SwordBuyersGuide.com is your best friend for the $200-$400 functional swords range
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In the <$500 price range, here are some thoughts on different manufacturers:
Del Tin makes some nice historical designs. They really only have two main "flaws", one of which is fairly subjective. They're a little on the blade-heavy side, but not completely "out of spec" either. They just favor the more heavier end of the spectrum. The other is that they are unsharpened. They will take an edge, but due to export restrictions in Italy, they can't sharpen them in advance. Otherwise, these are a fantastic starting point, since they know their history.
Darksword Armory has a few models that are more fantasy-ish, but they also have some nice swords that are well made for the price. You just have to know what you're looking for.
The Hanwei line has some decent offerings. The Tinker Pearce models are reasonable for the price. Some of these lack some of the historical subtleties, but that's just going to be the case in this price range.
Windlass can be real hit-or-miss. Every once in a while they have a decent offering, but others will be more disappointing. Some are historically inspired without being truly historical, if you know what I mean.
Generation 2 makes some OK swords. Like the Hanwei offerings, they're going to miss out on subtle details, but will be OK for the price. Some of their models are more fantasy.
Armor Class is probably similar to Hanwei, and Gen2, but I don't know them well.
If historical accuracy matters, stay away from anything from United Cutlery, Knight's Edge (ritter steel), Depeeka. A lot of these are what we call an SLO (sword-like object).
Cold Steel is "meh", as the accuracy and handling isn't great, but not stupidly bad either.
If you're willing to go up in price some, Lutel makes some decent stuff.
And if price doesn't matter as much, then I would point you to just about anything made by A&A (armor.com) and Albion Swords. These two are the top sword makers here in the US, IMHO. For the last 5 years or so, they're the only ones I've been buying from, aside from a Del Tin.
Disclaimer: This is off the top of my head. I haven't bought from most of these companies in several years, and these impressions come from the models I've had, and browsing through their catalogs a while back. Things may have changed, or I may have confused some details. YMMV.
You'll find a lot of these on KoA:
http://www.kultofathena.com/swords-medieval.asp (http://www.kultofathena.com/swords-medieval.asp)
KoA has very good prices, and customer service.
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Didn't realize Del Tin couldn't sharpen. I got all if mine from MRL many years ago and they offered a sharpening service.
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strongblade.com has alot of cheap hand made high carbon indian steel blades.
I got one called the warspike for $79.
it's battle ready.
They have good quality swords. I guaranty it.
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Didn't realize Del Tin couldn't sharpen. I got all if mine from MRL many years ago and they offered a sharpening service.
The Del Tin I am looking can be sharpen for an extra $18.00.
Tim
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Didn't realize Del Tin couldn't sharpen. I got all if mine from MRL many years ago and they offered a sharpening service.
Del Tin will not sharpen their swords due to export restrictions as Sir Edward mentioned, but their distributors often have that option available, like MRL.
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strongblade.com has alot of cheap hand made high carbon indian steel blades.
I got one called the warspike for $79.
it's battle ready.
They have good quality swords. I guaranty it.
I believe Sir Nate is starting to sound like a sound-piece in a commercial. Guaranteed a career in sales/marketing. LOL
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strongblade.com has alot of cheap hand made high carbon indian steel blades.
I got one called the warspike for $79.
it's battle ready.
They have good quality swords. I guaranty it.
The Warspike comes in two different versions, the $79 version is of un-tempered steel which means it is unsuitable for combat or anything else that requires a well tempered blade being able to flex properly, be it in fencing or cutting exercises. The tempered version goes for $139 and to have it sharpened means the price goes up to $155. As far as sub-$300 swords go, Strongblade isn't a bad choice, but keep in mind, they've copied swords from other makers...in some cases, like the Knight Protector sword, came out better than the original Hanwei singlehander it is modeled after but you'll have to deal with the little things, inconsistencies that are most often present on lower-end swords. It doesn't mean that they are no good- only that as you go, you'll find your tastes will run to the higher end of the spectrum which offers up a lot more options to choose from, and usually better to much better quality.
As Ulrich did, I went for the cheapies first and amassed quite a collection, only to sell most of them off when I realized what I was looking for was not going to be found in that price bracket. Or the bracket after. Of all the cheapies I've had, I've kept only three, one for sentimental value (it was my wedding sword) and the other two belong to my wife. I don't have as many as I used to, but the quality of the swords I do have is head and shoulders above anything you'll find for less than say, $700.
Sir James' advice about visiting SBG Sword Forum is excellent advice; they are the definitive resource for swords in the sub-$300 price range...and with in-depth reviews of most of the models as well. Decent forum too.
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Tim,
good question bud, and I have to agree with everyone else on here thus far. The only thing I'd like to add is I've had personal experience with both of these swords:
http://www.cashanwei.com/product/practical-single-hand-sword/sh2046 (http://www.cashanwei.com/product/practical-single-hand-sword/sh2046)
(http://www.cashanwei.com/img/prod/sh2046.jpg)
http://www.cashanwei.com/product/practical-norman-sword/sh2326 (http://www.cashanwei.com/product/practical-norman-sword/sh2326)
(http://www.cashanwei.com/img/prod/sh2326.jpg)
and while not being 100% authentic, they definitely get the job done as an introductory single hand sword like the one you were looking at. They also fit well with a Templar persona if that's what you're going for. These aren't sharpened and are good for reenactment combat.
Both of those weapons have basically become the ubiquitous backbone of the Adrian Empire for our live steel competitions. Their balance, their strength, and their warranty combined with their price, they're awfully hard to beat for a reenactment weapon.
They're not my all-time favorite, but they're awesome starters for sure.
Baltimor Knife & Sword (BKS on Kult of Athena) is a wonderful but heavy sword. LOVE them! :D They're more expensive than Hanwei, and definitely have "character quirks" to them. Very good practical rebated blade.
As for cutting swords, I only have experience with the top dollar ones for any extensive time. For cutters, the golden rule "you get what you pay for" seems to hold true.
Arms & Armour, Albion to me are some of the best commercial sword companies, but even then they're a small shop business. All things considered, they're simply wonderful.
Darksword Armoury seems to be a really good economy cutter. I'd ask Sir Nathan Q (in the Teutonic Order) here on the forums, he has one and seems to like it. I'm looking at those myself for one or two.
Then there are the small one-man armourers that are known strictly through word of mouth. They're more expensive than Albion or Arms & Armour but pretty much only do custom work.
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Patricius et al,
Thank you and all the others for the suggestions and advice. It is appreciated.
Isabella has agreed to make my surcoat but can not start it until Christmas time.
I can concentrate on the sword selection and the other items I need in the mean time .
Tim
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Careful with BKS. If it's the same Baltimore Knife & Sword from the Maryland Renn Fest, and that does/did have a storefront at the Tysons Corner mall, I bought the "Braveheart" sword from them about 15 years ago. I paid $349. A couple weeks later I saw it in the MRL catalog for $199. Quite the buyer's remorse, enough so that I still whine about it 15 years later. :)
Haven't had any trouble with the sword, per se, but it's a stainless steel wall hanger only. Had I known what I know about swords now, I'd have never paid that price knowing it can't safely be used functionally. That was not widely disseminated info in the late 90s, though. :(
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Careful with BKS. If it's the same Baltimore Knife & Sword from the Maryland Renn Fest, and that does/did have a storefront at the Tysons Corner mall, I bought the "Braveheart" sword from them about 15 years ago. I paid $349. A couple weeks later I saw it in the MRL catalog for $199. Quite the buyer's remorse, enough so that I still whine about it 15 years later. :)
I think you're mixing them up with Chesapeake Knife & Tool. BKS was the one at MDRF, but never had storefronts in the malls. The latter was CK&T. :)
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BKS is very reputable from my understanding. They mostly deal in custom work and they do all the weapons for the US Battle of the Nations team.
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Hi All,
Just saw a reference to BKS on the Order Facebook page. Good or not? Their prices seem very completive.
Thanks
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Their swords tend to be on the heavy side, and some of their designs are more fantasy, with many others looking more period appropriate. They're not always the most historic, but they do build their swords to be tough. As usual, it comes down to what you're looking for.
For my taste, the blades aren't historic enough. That is, they lack the right kind of distal taper (historically they should get thinner toward the tip), and the fullers aren't adequate to removing a lot of the weight. Both of those explain a lot of the heavy feel. But they certainly look good and are durable.
Granted it's been quite a few years since I last handled one, since they left MDRF probably 8-10 years ago. They used to be ground-down from bar-stock, many with axe-wedge edges.
My first "functional" sword I ever bought came from them, back when they were much simpler and more clunky. I bought it when I was a teen, probably at the end of the '80s or around 1990. That one definitely was just axe-wedges ground into bar-stock. They got a lot better at sword-making after that.
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Sir Edward,
Thanks. They are off the list as I am looking for historic and tough.
Tim
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Careful with BKS. If it's the same Baltimore Knife & Sword from the Maryland Renn Fest, and that does/did have a storefront at the Tysons Corner mall, I bought the "Braveheart" sword from them about 15 years ago. I paid $349. A couple weeks later I saw it in the MRL catalog for $199. Quite the buyer's remorse, enough so that I still whine about it 15 years later. :)
I think you're mixing them up with Chesapeake Knife & Tool. BKS was the one at MDRF, but never had storefronts in the malls. The latter was CK&T. :)
Ah, bingo, Chesapeake Knife & Tool it was. Baltimore, Chesapeake .. I'm geographically challenged.
No personal experience with BKS, then.
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Hi All,
Just saw a reference to BKS on the Order Facebook page. Good or not? Their prices seem very completive.
Thanks
Having used BKS swords for along, long time, and knowing the guys at the shop I would highly recommend them. They do wonderful custom work as well. But then again it depends on what your looking for in the sword. (if you have any specific questions that John (of BKS) doesn't answer in an email or something let me know I'll send a message to Matt, Sam, or Ilya on FB an get you an answer.)
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Sir Vander,
Thanks
I will put them back on the list.
Tim
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I'll add some more to this as well, since during Adrian Empire's Imperial Crown War I got to handle quite a few good reenactment swords.
here's my opinion on the ones I handled and I'll post links and pics of similar weapons on here as well:
first off, I'll talk about the hanwei designs again. They're good blades, affordable and look quite a bit more accurate than the BKS ones.
http://www.cashanwei.com/product/practical-single-hand-sword/sh2046 (http://www.cashanwei.com/product/practical-single-hand-sword/sh2046)
(http://www.cashanwei.com/img/prod/sh2046.jpg)
http://www.cashanwei.com/product/practical-norman-sword/sh2326 (http://www.cashanwei.com/product/practical-norman-sword/sh2326)
(http://www.cashanwei.com/img/prod/sh2326.jpg)
and the "rare" - apparently it isn't being made anymore???
http://casiberia.com/product/practical-viking-sword/sh2047 (http://casiberia.com/product/practical-viking-sword/sh2047)
(http://casiberia.com/img/prod/sh2047.jpg) - even though it's "in stock" and such on the site :D maybe it was an older model. I'm not entirely sure.
the two favorite I handled:
http://casiberia.com/product/tinker-bastard-sword-blunt/sh2401 (http://casiberia.com/product/tinker-bastard-sword-blunt/sh2401)
(http://casiberia.com/img/prod/sh2401.jpg)
and
http://casiberia.com/product/practical-basket-hilt-broadsword/sh2059 (http://casiberia.com/product/practical-basket-hilt-broadsword/sh2059)
(http://casiberia.com/img/prod/sh2059.jpg)
I liked them all really and all of them had very good balance and were quite durable. Most of the swords I handled minus the basket hilt had been owned by the knight for well over 12 years of hard abuse.
When it comes to the baskethilt, I've handled far better weapons, but again, for the price, there is no comparison really. But for me, I'd spend the extra money and get a nicer one. It's not that the hanwei wasn't "nice" but its balance just felt a bit off, believe it or not, more hilt heavy than blade heavy, and the finish on the basket was sub-par for me. But then again, when it comes to those weapons I'm truly spoiled. Of course, the basket hilts I admire usually run 75% to 400% more expensive than the hanwei, and again, you get what you pay for.
for a crusader era or viking era sword for reenactment though, I'm leaning more towards Hanwei.
The two BKS weapons that were at war weren't even allowed on the field because:
a) too heavy
b) caused a danger because of a lack of flex in the blade
they were absolutely gorgeous though, and to me, handled quite nicely.
here are the two swords most similar to the ones from BKS I saw at war:
http://imakeswords.com/handhalves.htm (http://imakeswords.com/handhalves.htm)
about half-way down
(http://imakeswords.com/images/broadswords/mushhnh2b.jpg)
and again about half-way down
http://imakeswords.com/falchions.htm (http://imakeswords.com/falchions.htm)
(http://imakeswords.com/images/falcions/fishclam1c.jpg)
beyond that, BKS makes a very nice weapon. It's just one that for my case, I'd have to be careful about how much it weighs. Ironically because of AE's ruleset, it's easier for a greatsword or an axe from BKS to meet the weight requirements than their single handed falcions. The hand and a half was just over weight, and to the marshal, just seemed overly built to be used safely against the much lighter hanwei weapons and the plywood shields most people were carrying. As a matter of fact, for a demonstration of the weapons ability, it cracked a 36" round war shield in one blow by the marshal and he wasn't even swinging it that hard.
for cutting, I'd avoid both. There are far better weapons out there for that purpose. Namely Albion, Arms & Armour, and Darksword armory as the big three.
For me, and for what I use it for, the hanwei is the one for me personally. I can get two, if not sometimes even three hanweis for the price of one BKS. From 10 feet away in a nice scabbard, the hanweis look better too because they aren't oversized. And, the marshals love them.
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That is a *mean* looking falchion!
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Just to give Armour Class a mention. They make very affordable battle ready swords.
Many groups and individuals alike, here, use and recommend their swords, our group and myself included.
I have had my single hand lightning and my hand and a half for many years and they have stood up to all the abuse that I ( or anyone else) have thrown at them.
I have recently bought one of their broader bladed single hand swords and my newest acquisition from them is my falchion. I have yet to use the falchion in combat but can`t see it being anything but as reliable as the others.
They are very well made to a high standard and nicely balanced.
They do temper extremely well with use
Armourclass also have a good after care service where they will re bind the handles, re peen the pommel and even replace the blade should it break ( which doesn`t happen very often).
They will also make to order within reason.
G.
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Just to give Armour Class a mention. They make very affordable battle ready swords.
Many groups and individuals alike, here, use and recommend their swords, our group and myself included.
oh sweet! I've been drooling at quite a few of their weapons as well, I was just a little concerned because of them being overseas. Thanks for the head's up!