ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: westcoastgio on 2015-08-30, 23:52:03
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so, first things first, I know I did everything wrong. Everything.
I bought things out of order. I bought cheap crap to save money. I compromised my vision for my wallet.
My preferred weapon system is probably incongruous with the harness I am aiming toward.
My first purchase was the cool looking (in my opinion) pauldrons and gorget. I got them from a website, off the shelf. they don't seem to fit right, and I am certain they are so inaccurate and unhistorical that it makes your eyes hurt as much as they make my shoulders hurt.
I have an unpainted metal heater shield from the same website, and a mediocre arming sword that are not pictured.
I got a local SCA blacksmith to make the cuirass, I am mostly happy with that piece. I have no idea what period if any it would fit in with.
after those purchases I finally looked into arming wear... and ended up with a sleeveless boxlike garment better suited for mail than my harness.
and then I got that helm, it was free, but I hate it. I hate the flat top. I hate the weight.
I just paid for a custom arming cotte that can actually be used for pointing. my next purchase is going to be a set of arms... from a blacksmith this time!
I am in the process of converting a pair of butted mail sheep-shearing blankets into a paunce and voiders.
my goal is something that fits the "rule of cool" over accuracy, that would be fight legal (with minimal pieces of exchange) for SCA and similar organizations.
I am interested in at least knowing when and where I am being horribly inaccurate. I welcome and request any and all pointers, critiques and criticism.
I cant figure out how to make my picture small enough to post so here is the dropbox link for it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ir4glyx344rsfhl/20150830_135314.jpg?dl=0
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The cuirass looks nice, and would be early in the "transitional" period since it doesn't have a fauld or peaked front. Does it have a back plate too?
Arming garments is good, that should be the first thing to take care of. Work inside to outside for best results.
For SCA / rule of cool, I'll defer that to some of the SCA guys we have on here.
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It is actually an articulated sculpted piece. my blacksmith had rejected the backplate for his personal set, because a couple of the sculptural elements didn't make him happy. he knocked down the price, and the time for the cuirass.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/vk3p6fqst39xp2c/DSC03257.JPG?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vk3p6fqst39xp2c/DSC03257.JPG?dl=0
I have recently learned that a huge amount of hollywoodism has infected me, so I am running out and trying to educate myself. I'm still more into looks over accuracy, but I want to know where I have chosen looks over history.
edited pic and typo
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Welcome from a SCAdian hailing from the lands of mosquitoes and hockey (Nordskogen, Northshield). I know you’ll find a wide range of medieval related interests and viewpoints here, as I have.
Don’t beat yourself up about early acquisitions as that’s a road that many, if not all of us, have traveled. It must be in our genes to run out and get the shiny thing that first grabs our attention. In fact that may not be such a bad thing as it drives you to read and learn more, and more, and more…
Do, and purchase, what makes you happy. If you strive for kit that screams 1381 Prague with authentic materials and craftsmanship, then knock yourself out. If you’re more of a Ren Fest / WMA / SCA / LARP / whatever guy, then follow your happiness.
my goal is something that fits the "rule of cool" over accuracy, that would be fight legal (with minimal pieces of exchange) for SCA and similar organizations.
The phrase “rule of cool” is new to me (I’m an old guy), but I understand the concept well. I think you can have the best of both worlds, and you’ve already started with the arming coat. Use that foundation to build your kit. I recommend (to no one’s surprise) a mid to late 14th century kit of French, English or Germanic origin. This period saw rapid armour development with regional variations. Minimal changes would be necessary to practice SCA rattan, SCA cut-and-thrust, Harnischfechten or LARP.
I’m currently replacing butted mail bits with riveted mail as picking up rings after every practice and war is getting very old. ;)
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I think, at 36 I qualify as an old guy too!
trying to localize it to a region is kinda tough. the ideas in my head are too infused with hollywoodism. My only known European ancestry is Scottish, which to my knowledge copied British styles. Unfortunately for this hobby, my Choctaw ancestors never strapped on cool looking chunks of metal for me to copy today. ;)
once I have erased some of my hollywoodism I will start narrowing it down to a region, era, and social strata.
if my other hobbies are any indication I am about to end up with several harnesses.
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trying to localize it to a region is kinda tough. the ideas in my head are too infused with hollywoodism. My only known European ancestry is Scottish, which to my knowledge copied British styles.
This is a guide I wrote for people interested in making historical kits. Although it may not all be applicable to your goals, the part on localization and the resources in there might help you get started.
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,3207.0.html
This video playlist may also help give you some ideas on historically based harness and components (I'm not done with the whole series yet, but most of it is there now)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLllw4zFP7rK_FvP5_XhbxaHL6Mozats7Q
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trying to localize it to a region is kinda tough. the ideas in my head are too infused with hollywoodism. My only known European ancestry is Scottish, which to my knowledge copied British styles.
This is a guide I wrote for people interested in making historical kits. Although it may not all be applicable to your goals, the part on localization and the resources in there might help you get started.
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,3207.0.html
This video playlist may also help give you some ideas on historically based harness and components (I'm not done with the whole series yet, but most of it is there now)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLllw4zFP7rK_FvP5_XhbxaHL6Mozats7Q
If historical authenticity is something you're after, both of those links are excellent resources with which to start as well as guide you through the process. I am following them myself- well, the first link; the second I've not done more than glance at- but if Sir Ian is endorsing it, it must be solid.
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Sir Ian's video series is actually how I found this site, his videos expounding the advantages of the pourpoint design etc. is why I commissioned the Arming cotte I am waiting on.
I know that I really prefer the more plate less mail eras
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Sir Ian's video series is actually how I found this site, his videos expounding the advantages of the pourpoint design etc. is why I commissioned the Arming cotte I am waiting on.
I know that I really prefer the more plate less mail eras
Oh cool!
As far as the historical authenticity thing goes, don't get too hung up on it if it's not your interest. If you want to blend fantasy and history, or blend time periods, or whatever, go for it. The important thing to keep in mind though, is that the real historical stuff was designed the way it was because it worked. So while you can certainly style armor to be more fantastic than historical, some of the underlying concepts I've discussed in those videos, like the way it should fit, and where the weight should be supported, how the armor should interact with the garments and the other armor components, etc still applies to any armor you want to feel comfortable and function, historical or fantasy.
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well, when it comes to my interest, I want to fight in armor and I am not too picky what organization I do it with. when I was much younger I wore second hand plastic armor and did a bit of fighting with the SCA. I was no good, and probably more dangerous to myself than others but had fun. now that I am much older, and my metabolism has slowed, I am looking for some kind of activity that appeals to me that actually involves burning calories.
As a know-it-all nerd, I am very interested in the idea of Living History (as I understand it.) However to my knowledge there are no LH groups in central California.
I'm not sure if it's just me but I have a hard time looking at the period painting and effigies and translating what that kind of armor would really look like. so I ordered a few Osprey books off ebay to start my research, now that my research materials have started trickling in, I am narrowing things down.
I really like the Armet/close helm look, and I am going to start picking up pieces in line with that broad era. if anyone has suggestions on where to research to narrow that down even further, I would greatly appreciate.
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Osprey books can have some really bogus information and interpretations in them, so never take them as gospel. Always confirm with other sources. The go-to book most people recommend for new enthusiasts is Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight by Edge and Paddock.
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Osprey books can have some really bogus information and interpretations in them, so never take them as gospel. Always confirm with other sources. The go-to book most people recommend for new enthusiasts is Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight by Edge and Paddock.
Ordered the book from Ebay, I look forward to devouring it.
I really like the armet/closehelm, but so far I am only seeing it paired with asymmetrical pauldrons, and mitten gauntlets. is there a time and place where the Armet, or similar helm was worn with symmetrical pauldrons and finger gauntlets?
I also found an internet smith at http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ that makes a set of plate arms with dragon wing fan plates. I suspect that they are seriously unhistoric... however seeing some of the crazy decorated armors out there I am not 100%
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I also found an internet smith at http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ that makes a set of plate arms with dragon wing fan plates. I suspect that they are seriously unhistoric... however seeing some of the crazy decorated armors out there I am not 100%
Illusion makes armour for the rattan combat crowd (SCA). I have some of their pieces and my personal opinion is:
Pros
- Reasonably priced
- Armour takes a licking
- Passes the "looks OK from 10' rule of thumb"
- Established, will not take your money and run
Cons
- LONG wait times
- Non-tempered steel
- Heavy
- Historical accuracy takes a back seat
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I also found an internet smith at http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ that makes a set of plate arms with dragon wing fan plates. I suspect that they are seriously unhistoric... however seeing some of the crazy decorated armors out there I am not 100%
Illusion makes armour for the rattan combat crowd (SCA). I have some of their pieces and my personal opinion is:
Pros
- Reasonably priced
- Armour takes a licking
- Passes the "looks OK from 10' rule of thumb"
- Established, will not take your money and run
Cons
- LONG wait times
- Non-tempered steel
- Heavy
- Historical accuracy takes a back seat
any smiths you suggest?
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I really like the armet/closehelm, but so far I am only seeing it paired with asymmetrical pauldrons, and mitten gauntlets. is there a time and place where the Armet, or similar helm was worn with symmetrical pauldrons and finger gauntlets?
Italian style, 1450ish and up.
The asymmetrical pauldrons are for a lance rest / jousting harness. A foot combat harness would potentially have symmetrical pauldrons. Often depends on the purpose of the armor, though some foot combat armors may style be asymmetrical.
Lots of armors with armets that don't have mitten gauntlets. Italians have a "hybrid" style as well, with mitten style down to the first knuckle as an extended plate, but still having individual fingers.
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any smiths you suggest?
Yes, but he's recently retired from armouring. Allan Senefelder (aka The Mercenary's Tailor) made great (SCA type) gear. Search the Armour Archive, myArmoury, this forum and other armour forums to find his stuff for sale used. I have a couple of his pieces that I will never sell which tells you what I think of the man and the quality of his craft.
I'm not too familiar with many US based armourers except the really high end guys who do amazing work for (rightfully so) amazing prices.
There seems to be quite a bit of good stuff coming out of the Ukraine lately although I have no first hand experience.
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I did the same as you at the start no need to worry
My breastplate is from Allan although unfortunately he is out of business, I still have not been able to find someone to match his ruggedness and amazing prices :(
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I must be getting old as I completely forgot two solid US armourers for the SCA crowd. :o
Windrose Armory (http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/) out of Arizona
Icefalcon Armory (http://www.icefalcon.com/) out of New Jersey
I've have very positive dealings with both. They are well established and offer good quality for the price.
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so, I gotta ask, what does Ice Falcon do at 400$ on a set of arms that the other internet armorers I have found don't do at 200$?
I have zero problem with saving up and spending extra, as long as I know what I'm getting for the money.
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Without seeing a direct comparison, the things that have pretty significant effects on pricing are factors like materials (spring steel vs mild steel vs stainless steel), level of finish (mirror polish vs satin polish vs rough from the hammer), proper historical line and shaping, techniques used (hot work required or just cold hammered), construction method (raised, welded, riveted), reputation of the armorer, decoration (brass edging, engraving, etching, bluing, blackening, gilding etc), heat treatment and hardening...
For example, you can get helmet-looking object that will protect your brain with a serviceable finish in 14g mild steel, cold-worked and riveted construction for $150.
You can also get a historically shaped helmet, in a good finish, heat treated and hot raised from a single piece of 1050 spring steel, with brass edging and engraving from a well known custom armorer for $4,000
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I am well aware of the things that can bring up price, and when it comes to my helmet, I will be going deep into my wallet.
however several internet armorers offer articulated 14c style arms from just under the pauldron to the wrist for around 200 dollars. Icefalcon starts way higher in price for similar arms, and from the pics look like they are only from the elbow down. I hear alot of recommendations about IceFalcon, but was wondering what I would get for the extra money.
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From what I understand of armor. Spend the most amount of armor on greaves and helmets. Greaves moreso since they require a very exact fit.
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Unless I can see specifically what you're looking at for $200 I can't tell you why it's at that price point. I can only tell you from experience, arms that cost $200 (regardless of whether they are articulated or not) are typically not very refined in historical shaping, and will almost certainly be made of mild steel. Icefalcon's catalog doesn't provide enough information, but looking at his photos he seems to really like working in stainless steel or aluminum. He also has a very high reputation within certain sport combat circles.
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Unless I can see specifically what you're looking at for $200 I can't tell you why it's at that price point. I can only tell you from experience, arms that cost $200 (regardless of whether they are articulated or not) are typically not very refined in historical shaping, and will almost certainly be made of mild steel. Icefalcon's catalog doesn't provide enough information, but looking at his photos he seems to really like working in stainless steel or aluminum. He also has a very high reputation within certain sport combat circles.
Agreed on everything Sir Ian has said. I'll also add:
* Thickness affects price (18g is actually thinner than 16g and some Indian armors are 18g), and also that the actual functionality of the articulation CAN affect price.
* Cheaper armor won't have a full range of motion, or in some cases, some of the plates are riveted solid and don't move at all when they should.
* STYLE of the armor will also affect the price, floating arms are generally cheaper than articulated, and gothic/fluted is generally more expensive than italian/english
As Ian said, without specific links, no way to know what we're comparing
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Unless I can see specifically what you're looking at for $200 I can't tell you why it's at that price point. I can only tell you from experience, arms that cost $200 (regardless of whether they are articulated or not) are typically not very refined in historical shaping, and will almost certainly be made of mild steel. Icefalcon's catalog doesn't provide enough information, but looking at his photos he seems to really like working in stainless steel or aluminum. He also has a very high reputation within certain sport combat circles.
Agreed on everything Sir Ian has said. I'll also add:
* Thickness affects price (18g is actually thinner than 16g and some Indian armors are 18g), and also that the actual functionality of the articulation CAN affect price.
* Cheaper armor won't have a full range of motion, or in some cases, some of the plates are riveted solid and don't move at all when they should.
* STYLE of the armor will also affect the price, floating arms are generally cheaper than articulated, and gothic/fluted is generally more expensive than italian/english
As Ian said, without specific links, no way to know what we're comparing
fair enough. When I brought up http://www.illusionarmoring.com Sir Rodney broke down a pros and cons list. I was hoping someone could do similar for Icefalcon, or supply a bit of info behind their reputation.
Although I think I figured out the price disparity.... Icefalcon is using stainless steel, all of the other smiths I have been looking at are using regular steel.
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You had mentioned earlier in this thread that you were interested in Living History. Icefalcon caters more to the SCA and ACL crowd. Strict adherence to historical shaping and using more appropriate material analogues for period metals are not really what he's after. Those two things are pretty important in Living History. I'm not knocking Ice, he's just building armor for a different group of hobbyists with different goals. As far as his reputation goes, he's a great businessman, always makes good on his orders, does right by his customers, he's an all-around stand up guy. I've ordered mail from him on several occasions, but have never used his plate armor.
If Living History is really what you're interested in, I'm here to tell you that LH quality armor is much more of a long-game, involves lots of research and planning, and typically sends you down the custom armorer path. Most people don't really jump into a fully armed impression when they dive into more serious living history circles. I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to fully understand your intentions, because our advice is really dependent on that more than anything else. I'm also here to tell you that I find LH to be incredibly rewarding and satisfying when all the hard work, time and effort you put into your impression comes together.
You also mentioned the armet / closed helm look. Armet puts you in a mid to late 15th century Milanese harness, a Close Helm starts to take you into the 16th century. Both of those styles of armors come with very specifically stylized harness components, so you'd definitely want to go with a custom armorer if you want a LH quality Milanese harness.
I could list a bunch of North American and European armorers completely capable of getting you in either of those style kits, but you really want to spend a lot of time studying things like the proper arming garments and soft layers appropriate to the specific decades contemporary to the harnesses you're interested in.
If everything I typed just disappointed you, but you still want to fight in armor, you can certainly get into a harness that is safe for proper armored Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) that doesn't need to be as strict as a living history level armor. There are several guys here on the forums who do armored HEMA with no interest in doing strict living history. But the strict living history harness will generally also be suitable for armored HEMA (just not the other way around, and with some caveats). If LH is your thing, then welcome to the Dark Side. :)
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I am well aware of the things that can bring up price, and when it comes to my helmet, I will be going deep into my wallet.
however several internet armorers offer articulated 14c style arms from just under the pauldron to the wrist for around 200 dollars. Icefalcon starts way higher in price for similar arms, and from the pics look like they are only from the elbow down. I hear alot of recommendations about IceFalcon, but was wondering what I would get for the extra money.
As Ian mentioned, Icefalcon does a lot of work in stainless steel and imports a lot of Indian mail. As I've only purchased mail and SCA specific weapon components from Andre, I can't comment on his armour. I do know that he's well respected in the SCA and BOTN circles and his armours will pass the specific requirements of each sport.
My knee and elbow cops are from Windrose. They call them Flared Edge Elbows (http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_6&products_id=4). They're currently charging $75 for a pair of stainless elbows. I paid less 10 years ago for a mild steel pair. To follow my previous format:
Pros
- They can take a relentless pounding by rattan
- They look pretty
- They are easily drilled for pointing to your arming garments
- Windrose is honest, hard working, and charge a fair price for their wares
- Prompt shipping on items in stock (I have no experience with their custom wares)
Cons
- They are relatively heavy (mild steel)
- They will rust without proper care (again, the mild steel version, which they don't appear to offer anymore)
- They are of welded construction (non historical)
- One size fits most
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@ Sir Rodney, thank you for the pro and con break down, that really helps with figuring out where to throw my money.
@ Ian, my main interest is gonna be fighting. To my knowledge there are no LH groups in my area, and that is the largest factor keeping me from the dark side. ;) that being said, I want two things, to have a harness that has at least some historical authenticity, and to know where and how it isn't historical. honestly I am amazed at how wrong I was on alot of armor related stuff that I thought I knew.
when it comes to the armet and close helm, truthfully I am not sure what the differences are. I just know that they look to me like a classic knight, and that is the aesthetic I am aiming for.
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(https://en.wiki2.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Close_helm_armet_open.svg/im320-640px-Close_helm_armet_open.svg.png)
The difference is in the way they articulate/open, and of the two, the close helm is the simpler version and possibly the sturdier one due to not having hinges.
The left is a close helm, pivoting on the same large rivet as the visor, whilst the right one is an armet, with hinged cheekplates locking in place, sort of cupping the face from the sides.
You'll find Armets mostly on Italian armours from ca 1420 and a bit into the 16th century, whilst you'll find close helms primarily on German early 16th century armour. The differences can either be subtle or very clear, both in the shaping of the helmet as well as in the shaping of the armour and you're going to have to find a painting or existing piece of armour that shows us what you want.
One kinda bad thing, however, is that these are helmets that are nearly exclusive to full plate gear, I.e. Not something often or ever seen with brigandines or padded jacks or similar defenses. If you want to go the armet route, you're going to need to spend a lot of money other than on the helmet in order to get the look down.
However, if you're lucky, you might find some tournament harnesses that use Armets with lots of covered areas (since in the sca, the helmet is often your first piece). But I do not know any off the top of my head.
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I have no issues paying more to avoid Brigs and COPs I want the full plate look.
when I think of knights I think of the very head shaped helmets, like the Armet and Close helm, and that is a what I want to own and wear
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Spend a good chunk of time studying mid to late 15th century Milanese harnesses for the Armet look, or 16th century styles for the close helm look.
Here are some photos of the 'typical' looks that those helm styles usually go with. The first is the 'armet' and the second is the 'close helm.' The close helm probably comes in more variety of styles than the armet, so browse. But realize that the typical close helm wearing, knight in shining armor that most people think about isn't medieval at all, but a renaissance thing. What you want to do now is spend a LOT of time studying and familiarizing yourself with the *real* objects through good sources.
Mid - Late 15th century Milanese harness featuring Armet
(http://i.imgur.com/Wk0PAth.jpg)
16th Century Equestrian Armor featuring a Close Helm
(http://www.malcolmarmstrong.com/content/wp-content/gallery/uploads/knight_s.png)
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Here's a different view of the 16th century armours linked by Ian.
(http://i.imgur.com/KUQmx6X.png)
And the Armet can be seen quite early in the 15th century, but the more iconic version is, as shown by Ian, very alligned with the late Milanese equestrian harnesses.
A good point to start for sca (not for living history) is. Landsknecht kit with hidden plastic armour and only a close helm and gauntlets visible. This is not the historical use of them, but for sca, it will look good and you can build your kit over time feom the top down. However, for proper kit building, you'll want to start from the inside out and your helmet will be one of the last pieces, fitted over your breastplate and throat protection.
EDIT:
Actually found a kit you could start on as I was thumbing through my pinterest, since, for SCA, you can do at least a part of it in plastic (the cuirass) and thus save money and get in gear slightly quicker. But remember, this is a big comittment no matter how you do it.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a4/fe/38/a4fe38e8d848ca9c9e60cb35a7ecc8cd.jpg)
It has been quoted as the "Armour of Don Sancho de Avila Germany (Augsburg), 1560."
Here you have some of my albums. They're not perfect, the helmet one has plenty of modern stuff in it, and the overview-one is sorely lacking in milanese harnesses.
Brief History overview:
https://www.pinterest.com/granlid/a-brief-history-of-armour/
Helmets:
https://www.pinterest.com/granlid/helmets-for-inspiration/
And then, if you want to study existing Milanese pieces, there's a great album over at MyArmoury
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21152
I think I've given you what tools I can, now it is up to you to do the rest.
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I have a fight legal cuirass and an early SCA great helm already. I plan on using the pieces I have while adding pieces that will match the final look I want, and replace the helm and cuirass last.
honestly, if the look in my head is more renaissance than medieval, I'm not too worried about it. I just want it to be semi historical and what I think of when I think of a knight. though I am more than a little frustrated to learn that the weapon system and armor system I think of when I think of knights are separated by centuries.
I am researching the heck out of things, you guys (mostly Ian) keep suggesting books and I keep buying and reading them.
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well, I achieved my short term goal, thanks to some loaner gear from a friend, I am now equipped to legally fight with the SCA.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/y6j52jphhyakhks/IMG_24441.jpg?dl=0)
the dropbox link is to a picture of me in the harness with my 'uge shield and SCA sword
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y6j52jphhyakhks/IMG_24441.jpg?dl=0
now I have to work on my midterm goal: making my current rig more comfortable, less ugly, and actually learn how to fight.
My long term goal remains, I want a respectably historical late period milanese rig. and toward my long term goal I am still researching, both the history, and some reputable smiths.
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well, I achieved my short term goal, thanks to some loaner gear from a friend, I am now equipped to legally fight with the SCA.
Yea! :)
now I have to work on my midterm goal: making my current rig more comfortable, less ugly, and actually learn how to fight.
This order: #2, #3, #1. Hitting people with sticks is fun for the whole family. ;)
My long term goal remains, I want a respectably historical late period milanese rig. and toward my long term goal I am still researching, both the history, and some reputable smiths.
You underestimate the power of the 14th century...
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Search your feelings, you know it to be true...
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Osprey books can have some really bogus information and interpretations in them, so never take them as gospel. Always confirm with other sources. The go-to book most people recommend for new enthusiasts is Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight by Edge and Paddock.
Funny you mention that Sir Ian. My history professor gave me that book upon learning about me joining the SCA and it has helped me in my acquisitions tremendously.
Westcoast, as a fellow Scadian from Atlantia I must hail you and congratulate you on joining our cult! I have only been in six months now but it has begun to dominate most aspects of my life. I will hop on board with the others and say functionality should be your chief concern. Looking cool is important in the SCA, it gains respect and admiration in a society where there is a true opportunity for advancement. However, battlefield prowess is of course the name of the game. Here are some armorers I think you should look in to for your 15th century period goals.
Eric Joseph of James River Armoury is down there in Caid as we speak so shipping and acquisitions will be quick with him, however he is moving back here to Atlantia soon so I'd hop on board while you can! You can find him on facebook or on etsy.
Forge Of Svan makes some awesome BOTN gear at an incredibly affordable price but they are in Ukraine.
Steel Mastery is a group from Ukraine, like Forge Of Svan, their main focus is BOTN. Whatever works for ACL and BOTN guys will more than work for SCA use. I've seen some people on this forum gripe about their quality though...and they're undeniably expensive as well.
Mad Matt's Armory is also an affordable and awesome armorer that will cater to you on a personal level. They have some very affordable bascinets on there. If you're going for an SCA legal armet it's going to be hard to find one under 900 bucks. A hounskull or klappvisier serve a similar function but are more affordable.
I look forward to seeing you on the field of battle some day. Hopefully you can make it to this year's Pennsic!