ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Courtyard => Topic started by: SirNathanQ on 2011-08-11, 14:02:09
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Sword and heater shield. I know we have no existing period material for it, but has anyone tried reverse engineering material from other schools? Like side sword and sword and buckler, or messer?
any results or observations?
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You're speaking the lingo of the 'sword and board' crowd...as you say, no real period material concerning it, but the SCA has turned it into a semi-art form. Common sense and imagination being what it is, I would be surprised if they were too far wide of the mark in how such a fighting style was used in period. The heater shield's shape lends itself to more than a couple offensive moves should the opportunities present themselves.
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True Ser William, but many have argued that the SCA styles that have evolved over the years also tend to be "game specific" with no documented basis. This can be a very touchy subject in many circles that has generated monster threads on both myArmoury and the Armour Archive. I'm completely unschooled in the I.33 arts and thus have no comparative basis.
It seems to me that the basic footwork and strikes taught in various WMA schools would work well with "sword & board". The SCA standard "head wrap shot" works very well in our game and would seem to work well against unarmoured opponents. It is my opinion that this strike would only irritate a man wearing a bascinet and cause him to lop off your arm and beat you about the head with it. ;) ;D
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Lord Rodney, that's just it- w/out any real documented basis, specific to heater shields, it is up to those of us left behind to figure it out. I wouldn't be surprised if what came out of SCA ends up being at least historically plausible.
In my humble opinion, such things are possible because as humanity continues to evolve, we get stronger, faster, smarter- the masters who put down their techiques to paper to further the art did so in order for future generations to flower under his teachings...but what can we do when such teachings are absent?
Improvise...and we have proven ourselves quite adept at it, if history is any indicator.
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Yeah, there's very little surviving documentation about heater shield use. I have a feeling they were used more on horseback than on foot, but that's a personal guess. And in terms of using a shield and a lance on a horse, there probably wasn't much worth writing down about the shield.
There's some documentation on sword & rotella (a round shield, like this one from MRL (http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-643-steel-domed-shield.aspx)), I think. Presumably much of it can translate over. And it is a bit different than how SCA fighters typically handle it. In the classes I took on it, the shield was used mainly to close off a line of attack, and was held somewhat outstretched.
I think Rodney made a good point about how much the SCA combat has evolved to the SCA's rules. This is only natural, as that will happen in any game. The "wrap shots" are similar to some maneuvers in HEMA, but there's much less reliance on that in a real fight. Partly because doing so requires you to be close and to expose your arm. SCAdians also have the luxury of holding the shield high and leaning back, exposing their lower legs since they're "off target". Also, sometimes the shields are absolutely huge, being made of modern lightweight materials (aluminum). IMHO this becomes a game of who can reach over the other's shield the best. :) Granted, not being an SCA fighter, I'm not an expert on what they do.
But to be fair, there's only so many ways the human body can move, and even through trial-and-error, similarities will develop, just out of what feels efficient to do.
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Hmmm, this discussion has me thinking about a future MASHS free-play session…I have a heater shield and you have a heater shield…maybe we could play around with those instead of the bucklers? ???
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Hmmm, this discussion has me thinking about a future MASHS free-play session…I have a heater shield and you have a heater shield…maybe we could play around with those instead of the bucklers? ???
Well, I don't want to bash up the paint on my faire shield. But I can bring the Rotella for sure.
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Hmmm, this discussion has me thinking about a future MASHS free-play session…I have a heater shield and you have a heater shield…maybe we could play around with those instead of the bucklers? ???
Well, I don't want to bash up the paint on my faire shield. But I can bring the Rotella for sure.
Well it's only paint! Besides don't you think our shields maybe a little too pristine? ;)
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Make sure to take a video guys! I would like to see this!
Yes, I personally plan to do SCA one day, and a good bit of what I've seen works, except for the cuts and guards that are SCA tailored. (Iron Chicken, Blocking with a clamshell, dependance on wrap shots, ect)
I think SCA stuff would really translate over well to a mace. No pesky edge alignment with one of those, and the handling isn't as huge of an issue as with a sword (Weighted sticks tend to handle like weighted sticks ;))
And knights did spend a good part of their time fighting on foot, especially in the 14th century where the full-fledged heater as we know it developed.
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Well it's only paint! Besides don't you think our shields maybe a little too pristine? ;)
Ugh. Those charges were a pain to do, and they'd scrape right off. I'd rather get a second shield to beat up. :)
Then again, I still have my templar shield. I wouldn't mind beating that one up. It's the one whose photo I used to make the various shield images used as logos on this site (and on the cafepress shop), including the little icon next to the URL in your web browser. :)
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Hey, Sir Edward...before you use that shield, would you consider selling it? I could use a shield for my left arm since I now have a sword belted for my right...then I can be equally ungainly with both arms. lol
I wouldn't use your CoA shields either...they're way too nice. Get other ones, paint them up and have at it. :)
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Hey, Sir Edward...before you use that shield, would you consider selling it?
I split our discussion off to another thread so we stop derailing this one. Templar shield thread is here: http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,1341.0.html (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,1341.0.html)
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LOL
Good move...sorry Sir Nathan for the thread derailment.
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Ahh, no problem at all. :)
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Just a thought here, but has anyone looked at the resources that Law Enforcement agencies and the military use when conducting riot control operations. The shield there (much like the Roman scutum or Norman kite in size at times) as offensive options with smash and trap, along with the manipulation of the baton (sword) in support or being supported.
Just my .02 cents. :)
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Good and valid point. I wonder just how structured and frequent that sort of training is for law enforcement crowd control?
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I can tell you that back in the mid 80s, we had to do the training (8 hours), once every month while I was stationed in Panama. Now it's a lost art, unless maybe with the Military Police. As for Law Enforcement, maybe covered like we did, unless you're in an area prone to demonstrations and riots like areas in Europe or the Middle East I would guess.
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Just a thought here, but has anyone looked at the resources that Law Enforcement agencies and the military use when conducting riot control operations. The shield there (much like the Roman scutum or Norman kite in size at times) as offensive options with smash and trap, along with the manipulation of the baton (sword) in support or being supported.
Just my .02 cents. :)
Short answer: "Yes"
Long answer: One of my SCA mercenary company brothers is a police sergeant in the Twin Cities and a retired MP. He has frequently commented that police riot shields and batons are handled very much in the same manner as SCA war shields (scutums, etc.) and rattan swords.
You may recall that we hosted the last Republican National Convention (RNC) in St. Paul. During the preparations, a call was put out for volunteers on the riot control teams. My friend quickly signed up for the training. As it turns out, his shield and baton skills were deemed a little too "enthusiastic" by the trainers and he was relegated to a supervisory role. This broke his heart as he truly wanted to be on the front line, just like every other summer weekend! ;D
True story. :)
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;D ;)
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I know the riot police and such actually use SCA guys to instruct them at times.
And while the riot shield is believable for a scutum or a Kite, a heater, even a large one is much smaller. At the least, you would be leaving your legs exposed.
And then there's edge alignment. A police baton would be quite usable for a mace though.
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I do believe that the heater shields were used primarily on horseback...as you stated, on foot it leaves a bit to be desired in terms of coverage. Not to say it was never used on foot, only that it wouldn't seem to be the best option available.
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The 14th century was when the Heater Shield as we know it was at it's most popular.
The 14th century was a time when lots of Knights were dismounting to fight.
I think it would leave a lot to be desired if used in the same manner as a scutum, similar to the way a buckler would leave much to be desired in place of a rotella.
I think while it's a compromise between movement and protection.
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I would have to give way to those more knowledgeable as I have no experience fighting with a scutum; but I have viewed many of the SCA vids posted on YT and noted some interesting shield shapes being used besides the rectangular scutum. Not sure if what I've seen in the SCA would translate well onto a battlefield, as they are not actively trying to do one another in like you would in a battle. Wrap shots in particular could get you into a world of trouble as those exposed elements would be attacked first.
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We fight with heater shield and hand weapons quite often. We found the full sized 2`X3` ones to be quite cumbersome.
As I make our shields, I played around with slightly different sizes and strapping layouts and ended up with a great,light and usable shield. It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching :P It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.
I don`t recall seeing any contemporary illustrations of heater shields being used in foot combat though. If I come accross anything I will post here.
G.
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We fight with heater shield and hand weapons quite often. We found the full sized 2`X3` ones to be quite cumbersome.
As I make our shields, I played around with slightly different sizes and strapping layouts and ended up with a great,light and usable shield. It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching :P It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.
I don`t recall seeing any contemporary illustrations of heater shields being used in foot combat though. If I come accross anything I will post here.
G.
What dimensions did you settle on? Would you mind posting photographs of the front and back of a heater you made? I need to make another heater for SCA combat (mine's about had it) and I'd like to go the historically plausible route vs. purely a sport shield.
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We fight with heater shield and hand weapons quite often. We found the full sized 2`X3` ones to be quite cumbersome.
As I make our shields, I played around with slightly different sizes and strapping layouts and ended up with a great,light and usable shield. It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching :P It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.
I don`t recall seeing any contemporary illustrations of heater shields being used in foot combat though. If I come accross anything I will post here.
G.
What dimensions did you settle on? Would you mind posting photographs of the front and back of a heater you made? I need to make another heater for SCA combat (mine's about had it) and I'd like to go the historically plausible route vs. purely a sport shield.
Of course, here is a photo of the first one I did for myself;
Front;
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/JOBO_028/Craigs%20Shields/?action=view¤t=Derodes2.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/JOBO_028/Craigs%20Shields/?action=view¤t=Derodes2.jpg)
Rear;
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/JOBO_028/Craigs%20Shields/?action=view¤t=SwordSheildrear.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/JOBO_028/Craigs%20Shields/?action=view¤t=SwordSheildrear.jpg)
The timber is made to be 18mm thick then it has a steel plate over the front, then 2 layers of heavy canvas. This makes it very very heavy to use as a shield on an armoured arm ::)
The later ones I have made have been 12mm timber with one layer of thick canvas and no plate....much more usable. ;)
The overall dimensions are 600mm X 400mm.
G.
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It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching :P It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.
G.
I like the sound of that VERY much. Love what you've shown us too...what material do you use as the covering? It looks shiny almost...or is that the paint?
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It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching :P It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.
G.
I like the sound of that VERY much. Love what you've shown us too...what material do you use as the covering? It looks shiny almost...or is that the paint?
Most certainly the fresh paint lol.
I use as thick a linen/canvas as I can get hold of. I overlap this at least 3 times at the edge. Sometimes the customer asks for rawhide edging which really adds to the longevity of the shield.
G.
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What sort of paint do you use? I like the look of it, love the idea of being able to strap it higher if need be even better.
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Most of the shields I make for the group are classed as consumable as they get such a battering, therefore I only use cheap spray paint, masked to get colour changes and stencils for lions etc.
That`s also why I bolt straps and handles on rather than authentic rivets, so the straps etc can be used again when the shield is useless. They look great from where the MOPS are sitting lol ;)
The woman in the photo`s, painting my posh, later norman shield is Lou who runs "Knight ware", I`m not sure what paint she uses. I can find out for you if you wish.
G.
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I`ve just noticed in the photo at the top of this thread,
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,1353.0.html (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,1353.0.html)
there`s a chap wearing a small shield over his upper arm too.
G.
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Ah, the gent in the buff coloured padded gambeson wielding the polearm...still think that's pretty cool.
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Syr Gemini of Degrendelous Martial Arts has much to say on the heater BTW.
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Heaters are popular here in NZ... and unfortunately to fight safely means to avoid some really nice martial techniques :(. However I quite like using a polearm against a shield user, doing a shot to the head, then a shot to the leg. It either works or they get very tired arms, and then they make a mistake :). The flip side is that a polearm user is vulnerable to being bound up by the shield. But this may not apply in your sparring system, as rules change the techniques that work. Tournament is not war. Having said that Sir William Marshall was talented in both, so maybe there is some crossover?
Thrusting past a shield, hooking it on the retraction and then thrusting again on a new line can work well too. Works even better with a buddy.
Hopefully someday someone discovers medieval manuscript buried somewhere. It'd be nice to know what was taught, and if our speculations are anywhere near the mark.
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Here`s a nice little image;
http://www.chronique.com/Library/Libryimg/foot_fighting.jpg (http://www.chronique.com/Library/Libryimg/foot_fighting.jpg)
G.
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Interesting that they are shown with swords. They appear to be wearing plate legs, with a bascinet and mail. Possibly with plate under their jackets? Do you think they considered swords a viable option for killing each other? Is it a duel, tournament or war? I wonder why they don't have plate on their arms?
What document did that illustration comes from?
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Well it's only paint! Besides don't you think our shields maybe a little too pristine? ;)
Ugh. Those charges were a pain to do, and they'd scrape right off. I'd rather get a second shield to beat up. :)
Then again, I still have my templar shield. I wouldn't mind beating that one up. It's the one whose photo I used to make the various shield images used as logos on this site (and on the cafepress shop), including the little icon next to the URL in your web browser. :)
Rule of SCA thumb, one heater for show & one ready to go. They are not meant to be pretty all the time. Feel free to wreck them on an opponent in conjunction with any one-handed instrument of choice. I will happily fight with round and/or heater though I prefer a round shield in actual SCA combat. The heraldry paint of my shield will look just as nice imprinted or transferred upon my opponent's armor. :) I'm sure Lord Rodney can relate.
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Good and valid point. I wonder just how structured and frequent that sort of training is for law enforcement crowd control?
I'll answer that one first hand, Sir Brian. Those techniques are now common place in most law enforcement training academies especially focused for crowd control although they will always vary from agency to agency as to what works best. Specialized teams use them more frequently but they have been become standard for most police practicioners / line officers.
I would like to see more uniformity amongst my brethren in what is most efficient in the role we play. These drills need to be planned, prepared, and rapidly deployed with the utmost discipline and efficiency under the most stressful situations. Romans did it best but unfortunately their enemies caught on & mastered their trade secrets of what made them elite.
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Truly, but the Romans were facing opposing armies, and you're having to deal with the unruly rabble. I imagine some of those smash and bash techniques aren't used quite as vociferously as they might have done in antiquity- if only because you're not trying to kill these people, just get them back into line, so to speak.
All that to say, the mob probably isn't going to analyze and effectively combat your present tactical situation. Hope not, anyways.
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Truly, but the Romans were facing opposing armies, and you're having to deal with the unruly rabble. I imagine some of those smash and bash techniques aren't used quite as vociferously as they might have done in antiquity- if only because you're not trying to kill these people, just get them back into line, so to speak.
All that to say, the mob probably isn't going to analyze and effectively combat your present tactical situation. Hope not, anyways.
Unruly rabble most often is stupid drunks just like Real Romans. :)
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After reading this thread I am in near agreement with all of you.
I must admit that SCA Sword and Board/Heater Shield combat is fun and looks like fun, though actual documentation is greatly needed.
There is the Poem of the Pell (12th Century) which is the evidence of what Sword and Heater shield probably looked like. I suggest we research this and experiment with the text.
On the other hand, I do see the shield used as a piece of armor (learned this from NHSC) and the movements would be tight to afford maximum protection.
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:)
(http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglitData/image/cpg848/1/321v.jpg)
I have a few other photos but my internet is really bad right now :(
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Very nice! I presume the image is from the Codex Manesse?
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Looks like he did not hold his shield as high as he should have.
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Very nice! I presume the image is from the Codex Manesse?
Yes, I believe it is.
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That is what I thought, and after examining the image, I can say this is some evidence of arming sword having the capability to break or crush Helms.
I also see both combatants using two different stances, one which is narrow with the left foot forward and the other combatant standing with his left foot forward but in a wide stance. This is very crucial in reconstructing Medieval Sword and Heater Shield combat.
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Yes it is from Codex Manesse. I found it interesting not because of the foot work or even the sword cleaving the helm but because of the shields, one is held and the other is on the arm. Could some shields have a transitional form of use? Such as being capable of being held and when needed slid up the arm in such a way to create greater leverage with out messing up tempo?
Also I have a few images of shield work I’m trying to get down in pixel number from Codex Wallerstein & Gladiatoria. They are to large currently to post.
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I also see both combatants using two different stances, one which is narrow with the left foot forward and the other combatant standing with his left foot forward but in a wide stance. This is very crucial in reconstructing Medieval Sword and Heater Shield combat.
Be careful not to take the artwork as proof of different stances. They may simply be in the transition between stances, but not in a stance itself. Best to look at proper fechtbuchs, but since we don't have any for that style/period, the art work is good to see at least some of how they fought, even if we can't reconstruct it entirely. :)
Yes it is from Codex Manesse. I found it interesting not because of the foot work or even the sword cleaving the helm but because of the shields, one is held and the other is on the arm. Could some shields have a transitional form of use? Such as being capable of being held and when needed slid up the arm in such a way to create greater leverage with out messing up tempo?
Also I have a few images of shield work I’m trying to get down in pixel number from Codex Wallerstein & Gladiatoria. They are to large currently to post.
The shield is of interest. It may be a separate strap (guige strap) for carrying over the shoulder, or it may be a looser arm strap that he just slid up his arm, or possibly some odd evolution of going from the ailettes (square shoulder pieces) to a shield that hangs higher up on the arm? Hard to say, but very interesting!
You can post a link to the picture, if the pixels are too high, instead of embedding it.
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Be careful not to take the artwork as proof of different stances. They may simply be in the transition between stances, but not in a stance itself. Best to look at proper fechtbuchs, but since we don't have any for that style/period, the art work is good to see at least some of how they fought, even if we can't reconstruct it entirely. :)
Thank you Sir James, will take that in consideration.
he shield is of interest. It may be a separate strap (guige strap) for carrying over the shoulder, or it may be a looser arm strap that he just slid up his arm, or possibly some odd evolution of going from the ailettes (square shoulder pieces) to a shield that hangs higher up on the arm? Hard to say, but very interesting!
Yep.
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Sword and Shield is one of the styles of combat I feel truly comfortable with. I have practiced on my own and with anyone I can find for years. Heater shields make excellent offensive weapons, I have used two and no weapons per se on several occasions. Shields on an edge hit are formidable attacks. try blocking an attack with your sword, stepping in and striking the edge to your opponents forearm holding their weapon. follow with a shield bash and downward shoulder strike.
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Sword and Shield is one of the styles of combat I feel truly comfortable with. I have practiced on my own and with anyone I can find for years. Heater shields make excellent offensive weapons, I have used two and no weapons per se on several occasions. Shields on an edge hit are formidable attacks. try blocking an attack with your sword, stepping in and striking the edge to your opponents forearm holding their weapon. follow with a shield bash and downward shoulder strike.
Now you can't say that and then say you aren't heading to BotN or the Lauren Tourney some day. :)
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I am new to tourneys and re enactment, however Ihave trained formally as in martial arts and medieval sword training with others in sparrign and whatnot. I love the idea of tourneys, just never been to one. I live in southern Wisconsin near the Illinois border, where is a close one? I guess Iwould need to buy or build armor and whatnot.
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I am new to tourneys and re enactment, however I have trained formally as in martial arts and medieval sword training with others in sparring and what not. I love the idea of tourneys, just never been to one. I live in southern Wisconsin near the Illinois border, where is a close one? I guess I would need to buy or build armor and what not.
Your local SCA group can be found here: http://www.northshield.org/Branches/Search.aspx?new (http://www.northshield.org/Branches/Search.aspx?new)
HEMA Alliance: http://www.communitywalk.com/THE-HEMA-ALLIANCE-Training-Partner-Finder (http://www.communitywalk.com/THE-HEMA-ALLIANCE-Training-Partner-Finder)
ACL/BOTN: http://usaknights.org/ (http://usaknights.org/)
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Thank you Thorsteinn. Very helpful
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Lord Tristan,
after reading your post about the moves you've made with your shield, oh man, you're going to love SCA tournaments. However, on a note of "safety" shield bashing, or for that matter anything offensive with a shield, is not really allowed on the tournament field. On melee battles, pretty much anything is fair. All I can see is someone who thinks the "wrap" is the end-all-be-all move getting handed in a melee by your shield techniques!
www.armourarchive.org (http://www.armourarchive.org) (if it's okay to post a link to them) is a great group of die-hard SCAdians who strive to "get it right" within the sport of the SCA. Most SCAdians I've met have called them a bit "extreme" but that's part of the fun of it, SCA caters to a large variety of people's interests from Genericelt/vikings to people who go way in depth in their persona and garb down to a decade with only extant examples via museum and effigies.
Beyond that, the Codex Manesse source is EPIC! I've been primarily studying I:33 as that's the closest to what I'm trying to learn, crusades techniques with a kite or at the most advanced, a heater and transitional armor.
here's something else I've found. It's SCA based, and definitely tertiary although most of their references seem to be quite good: http://www.threeriver.org/marshal/tourney_1.shtml (http://www.threeriver.org/marshal/tourney_1.shtml) pretty good starting point for anyone interested in 12th century, but beyond that, it's the illuminations they use that I wish I could find elsewhere...
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lol the AA isn't all SCAians ;) i was there when it was Matt's virtual anvil while I ran Arador Armour Library
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lol the AA isn't all SCAians ;) i was there when it was Matt's virtual anvil while I ran Arador Armour Library
Sir Wolf, you sir ran Arador Armour Library!?! You good sir, are exactly why I am into all of this. I knew it was possible, but it was finding Arador Armour Library last summer that showed me how to make it happen. For that, I truly thank you, sir. *formal salute and bow*
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now i didnt start it. i ran it during college when the original guy backed out. vistar/eric ran it after me and then it stopped.
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thanks for the clarification Sir Wolf. Still, it's greatly appreciated whatever part you had in it. The armourarchive was a forum with some patterns, it was arador that had them in an easy to follow for complete n00bs. It was very helpful in the beginning when I was teaching myself from scratch.
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Yep, AA isn't just SCAdians, some of us are over there too that don't do anything SCA. SCAdians are common there, but it's not *only* them - and many of the discussions aren't SCA specific either. :)
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oh gosh like that stupid political board. i keep asking for it to go away
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oh gosh like that stupid political board. i keep asking for it to go away
The political board is like viking horns. Doesn't exist. ;)
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oh gosh like that stupid political board. i keep asking for it to go away
The political board is like viking horns. Doesn't exist. ;)
LOL ;D
If & only if I could find offence in your words, Sir. We would Duel, but alas I can't. ;)
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Sorry, if I offended anyone with the "SCA on the AA forums" bit. That wasn't my intent. I just meant to say that the SCAdians that are on that forum do seem to be the best of what the SCA has to offer in terms of historical accuracy. Just looking through threads like "I wanna be a 12th cent. Scot" is a great example of that.
They're trying to fix the "generi-celtings" as I like to call them ;D and indeed I know plenty myself that call themselves "Pict/Scot/Briton" (which is fine), that wear kilts, not even great kilts mind you, with steel greeves, hockey goalie looking steel helmets, and spanish peascod breastplates not hidden, and a heater shield. The only thing accurate on his kit is the blue woad paint, but then I doubt the designs he does it in are...
I just meant that of the SCA members on that forum, they seem to be the ones who care about archaeology and history, not "whatever suits their fancy" and are a good group. I've been a member of those boards for a year now. Indeed, it was those very boards and two members of it, that convinced me to try the SCA again after three years of being absent. Before them, I was just doing medieval stuff on my own because I take pleasure in building things and creating things just for the sake of creating them as well.
Sorry again, didn't mean any offense to all those members of the AA that have nothing to do with the SCA. Just the opposite. I merely meant the SCAdians on there seem to be a historically orientated group (as a whole, I know there are some that aren't), which is probably because of the members on that board that aren't SCA.
*back to OT, any news on more information on that Codex? I'm very interested as I'm trying to figure out heater and kite with sword myself.
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oh gosh like that stupid political board. i keep asking for it to go away
The political board is like viking horns. Doesn't exist. ;)
LOL ;D
If & only if I could find offence in your words, Sir. We would Duel, but alas I can't. ;)
It's a long-running joke with Sir Wolf. The picture is missing in the thread, but he was wearing a plastic viking helmet, with horns - horns that light up. No, I'm not joking...
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,973.msg9738.html (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,973.msg9738.html)
Sorry, if I offended anyone with the "SCA on the AA forums" bit
No offense taken, thought you were under the impression AA is an SCA only board
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It's a long-running joke with Sir Wolf. The picture is missing in the thread, but he was wearing a plastic viking helmet, with horns - horns that light up. No, I'm not joking...
Oh ;) Sir Wolf you are not alone, at least when I wore one I made sure there were no cameras (I think) ;D Yeah, LOL, sorry if my post was confusing, was running off to 2 hours of sleep and one meal in a 36H time frame.