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Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Thorsteinn on 2013-07-21, 16:54:36

Title: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2013-07-21, 16:54:36
"A knight once said to me "It does not matter what is around your waist or hanging from your neck. You are not in control of that. Be a knight in your heart". So... here is a discussion question for us. What does 'Be a knight in your heart' mean to you?" -Mistress Siobhan Ni Seaghdha, SCA OP

My answer is ~

Never give up, never surrender. Fight knowing you can stop. Be the best you can be & never settle though leave room to forgive the self. Be kind. Be strong. Be a wolverine on the field and a mench off. Be someone worthy of great enemies (and yes, don't be someone without any). Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your own loss.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Martyn on 2013-07-21, 17:57:32
An excellent query to ponder, Sir Thorsteinn - thank you for sharing.

You may have seen by my sig line this is a theme in fact near and dear to my heart :)

Indeed the quality I think you are describing - it strikes me as determination, self-will or perhaps simply courage, to summarize in my own poor wording - is indeed central to the "heart" of knighthood.

If I may expound, I would also posit that true knowledge/recognition of self -- and especially one's own weaknesses -- is just as important.  You mentioned it, giving yourself leeway and tolerance for limitations.

It seems to me that even the greatest of heroes are (and indeed must be) flawed.  For perfection belongs to the divine, but we are human.  And to have the capacity to learn and improve -- also central to knighthood, surely -- then we must also have the capacity, even occasionally the will, to err.

And without the knowledge of our won weakness - and more rarely, the courage character and inner strength to defeat it (perhaps never to master) then how can we hope to defeat our enemies -- the greatest of which may ultimately lie within?
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Lord Dane on 2013-07-21, 19:22:19
Being a knight within, means that your true self is always reflected outward. Always be true and faithful to who you are, what you value most, what you are most passionate for ....

Love unconditionally, Live with aspiration, Strive to be better oneself in all aspects of your own being. Always seek to self-improve, Learn all you can to be more understanding, Train to be more accepting and less indulgent. Discipline through devotion, Temperance through tolerance ....

Seek to be more mindful of others and less concerned for yourself. Selflessness above selfishness is service to all. Find truth in who you are and purpose in what you do. Live life without remorse, Regret only what you have yet to accomplish.

Always be a person of faith, honor, prudence, and wisdom. Be just to all in how you serve, and let your life be what reflects you ....   

Let death be a means of honor for the life you had, sacrifice you made, and those you served.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Edward on 2013-07-22, 14:48:05

These are all great answers.

One of the concepts I keep returning to is what CS Lewis wrote in his "The Necessity of Chivalry" essay, which is the idea of being both fierce and meek. Being ferocious when appropriate (when on the field, at the job, or what have you), while also being meek when called for (off the field, at home, in social situations). Having these things in proper measure, being a gentleman, being true to your word. It all goes together.

Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Nate on 2013-08-21, 20:08:43
always tell the truth, even if it means putting you life or someone elses in danger.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2013-08-22, 01:38:57
always tell the truth, even if it means putting you life or someone elses in danger.

Are you sure? Another's life is yours to sacrifice on the altar of your honor?
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Nate on 2013-08-22, 02:16:13
worse comes to those who lie.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Brian on 2013-08-22, 10:32:26
Ah I see this discussion has segued into a debate of truth which reminded me of a discussion on that very subject a couple of years ago that produced some very astute points. But essentially Nate, the topic of truth is rarely so simple nor cut and dry. ;)
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,696.0.html (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,696.0.html)
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Edward on 2013-08-22, 12:58:31
always tell the truth, even if it means putting you life or someone elses in danger.

Are you sure? Another's life is yours to sacrifice on the altar of your honor?

Thorsteinn brings up a good point. That's one you might want to think on, Sir Nate. To put that in perspective, would truth still be honorable, if it brought death to good people?
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Edward on 2013-08-22, 13:02:24

That also brings up another interesting point of discussion. Does your honor require you to tell the truth, when talking to evil? As a similar example, in Muslim culture, they consider it just fine to deceive infidels. But I'm not talking about differing faith, but rather "bad guys", or real evil. If you made a pact with the devil, would you be honor-bound not to lie to him, and to uphold your end of the bargain? No right or wrong here, I'm just curious how people think on this.

Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir William on 2013-08-22, 17:18:20
Your motivations are made known by your actions- for me, what powers it all is my belief in my self.  As a knight I am bound by oath to behave in a certain way, to set an example that others can look at and recognize me as such.  I am not always successful; it is a work in progress for me.  However, for those that do not- it is not always indicative of a failure or perceived lack on my part, just that they may not know or understand what knighthood and chivalry mean; it is our duty to educate those who wish to, and learn to live with those who do not.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-08-23, 14:26:10

That also brings up another interesting point of discussion. Does your honor require you to tell the truth, when talking to evil? As a similar example, in Muslim culture, they consider it just fine to deceive infidels. But I'm not talking about differing faith, but rather "bad guys", or real evil. If you made a pact with the devil, would you be honor-bound not to lie to him, and to uphold your end of the bargain? No right or wrong here, I'm just curious how people think on this.



Or as another example, police officers are allowed to lie to people if it leads them to an arrest or furthers an investigation.

Let's say they are pursuing a murder suspect, and talk to a person of questionable morality; that person says "You a cop?" and the cop says "Nope". That's a lie - but does it make the cop a bad person if that eventually brings the murderer to justice, when telling the truth would not have?
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Ian on 2013-08-23, 16:21:29
If I had to lie to save a friend or family member, consider it done.  I wouldn't think twice or hesitate for a milisecond if a lie meant saving my daughter or wife's life.  If that makes me dishonorable, then a knave I choose to be!  :)
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Nate on 2013-08-23, 16:34:56

That also brings up another interesting point of discussion. Does your honor require you to tell the truth, when talking to evil?
I suppose not. It was a blunt thing for me to say
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2013-08-23, 18:26:36
More exuberant than anything really.

Just remember the old axiom "The right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Lord Dane on 2013-08-24, 00:04:21
More exuberant than anything really.

Just remember the old axiom "The right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".

But what if I wasn't aiming for your 'honker'??  8)  :P
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: B. Patricius on 2013-08-24, 03:17:41
I'd like to respond to this myself and quote a man far greater than I:

it is Bernard de Clairvaux's treatise "In Praise of the New Knighthood" I'm taking this from, and to me, it defines chivalry and knighthood as a whole:
"Thus in a wonderous and unique manner they appear gentler than lambs, yet fiercer than lions. I do not know if it would be more appropriate to refer to them as monks or as soldiers, unless perhaps it would be better to recognize them as being both. Indeed they lack neither monastic meekness nor military might."

to be humble, yet strong
to be quiet, yet wise
to be meek, yet courageous
to be selfless
to be loyal

that to me, is the knight in my heart, and why the Templar kit was such an inspirational and emotional journey for me to undertake.  It's very different than dressing up as a Clansman of the O'Neills, defending my kith and kin, or being a Gallogaleigh going to the highest bidder.  That to me is the difference between a Knight and other forms of warriors.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Martyn on 2013-09-29, 22:13:09
Well said Br. Patricius.  I've been interested to find when re-reading de Charny's chivalry that he in part was writing to resist what he saw as an effort by Bernard, Benedict and others to subjugate knightly orders to the religious ones - an effort which in part has led to our contemporary close association between knighthood & the Church.

Service to God was of course part of what de Charny believed being a knight in your heart was about - but of equal importance were honor, humility and prowess.

On the more difficult question of the limits of truth, when reading about the events in Nairobi last week, I asked myself what my response I would have given when imagining the situation those innocents who went for a day at the mall found themselves in. 

How would I have answered when faced by those, who claimed to act in God's name, asked people one by one whether they were Muslim, and then kept those who answered otherwise from leaving - or worse...

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-Muslim, just thinking about when is it ever "right" to lie - or how prepared we must be to make even the ultimate sacrifice to stay true to our beliefs.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Justin on 2015-07-01, 20:49:12
To me, it means that regardless of whether or not you have been formerly knighted, you should strive to be chivalrous, honorable, courageous, and strong at all times in your daily life. You should always try to better yourself and to help the weak, just like a knight should. A ceremony does not make you a knight. Being a just and chivalrous person does.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Sir Michael on 2015-07-02, 11:58:52
This is a great question which made me do a lot of soul searching to what being a knight personally meant to me.  After it was all said and done this is what it means to me, service.  Service to others who are in need of help and protection, and the weak who can't stand up for themselves.  Most of all service to God who commands me to help my brothers and sisters in his name.     I am not looking for accolades or recognition, just the good feeling that you get from seeing the smile on a persons face when you made their life at that moment just a little bit better.  This is what being a knight means to me and why I gravitate to the knight Templars.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: scott2978 on 2015-08-01, 18:52:20
What does "Be a knight in your heart" mean to me?

It means that for me personally, which doesn't necesarrily apply to anyone else, if I myself being the harshest judge, believe in my heart that I am behaving in a knightly fashion (given our modern interpretation of chivalry)  then I should be content in my knowledge that I am a knight in the sense that makes the most difference to me regardless of what anyone else may think.

And to the question of honesty and truth I say this. In the same way that we have divorced our modern notion of chivalry from the medieval due to changing times and a greater understanding of human nature, we should not be overly attached to other medieval notions of behavior either. It's all well and good for a knight, a person of very high social standing, with ways and means of making the world around him bend to his will, to say he ought to be honest at all times. But in modern life being 100% brutally honest all the time is not only seriously impolite, it is also seen as behavior of socially and mentally deficient individual. And I'm sure many everyday examples come to mind. Suffice to say that 100% honesty 100% of the time is not good for anyone. Not yourself and not others either.

Scott
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Jon Blair on 2015-12-04, 17:07:08

That also brings up another interesting point of discussion. Does your honor require you to tell the truth, when talking to evil? As a similar example, in Muslim culture, they consider it just fine to deceive infidels. But I'm not talking about differing faith, but rather "bad guys", or real evil. If you made a pact with the devil, would you be honor-bound not to lie to him, and to uphold your end of the bargain? No right or wrong here, I'm just curious how people think on this.
A think a true knight would not put himself into a position where he would make a deal with the devil. While we could say that sometimes such a position is unavoidable, if we view the path we took to get there, we find it is a path of our own choosing.
For me, being a knight is to be selfless, not self-centered. To run toward the danger, while others flee. To maintain our integrity and serve others justly and fairly, with no demand for similar treatment if the roles were reversed. To look beyond the surface of a thing, and accept that all that glitters is not gold, and the ugly can disguise the rare and beautiful. To keep our word and celebrate truth and honor, regardless of the source.
Title: Re: Be a Knight in your heart.
Post by: Joshua Santana on 2016-05-06, 01:31:30
Quote
A think a true knight would not put himself into a position where he would make a deal with the devil. While we could say that sometimes such a position is unavoidable, if we view the path we took to get there, we find it is a path of our own choosing.
For me, being a knight is to be selfless, not self-centered. To run toward the danger, while others flee. To maintain our integrity and serve others justly and fairly, with no demand for similar treatment if the roles were reversed. To look beyond the surface of a thing, and accept that all that glitters is not gold, and the ugly can disguise the rare and beautiful. To keep our word and celebrate truth and honor, regardless of the source.

Thoughts exact Jon.