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Main => The Armoury => The Workshop => Topic started by: Sir James A on 2011-12-22, 03:35:38

Title: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir James A on 2011-12-22, 03:35:38
What tools are required?

A method to punch a hole for lacing - rotary punch, hammer punch, a sharp nail...
Lace
Mail
Leather

Why do this?

Leather edging on mail serves many purposes, such as reducing stray "edge" rings from snagging on other rings and/or under/arming garments, as well as providing a solid, easy to point foundation to attach to arming garments or lace through. The leather is also much less abrasive to the points, and will extend the life of the points compared to lacing directly through the steel mail.

Is it period / historically based?

There are some historical images which seem to show leather edging of mail. These pictures are from the Bayeaux Tapestry:

(http://seattlegis.com/travel/041_bayeux_tapestry_williams_cavalry_go_off_at_a_gallop_postcard.jpg)

(http://users.breathe.com/martin.reeve/bayeux.jpg)

Note the dark edges, in particular on the mail that is carried on the poles. It has been suggested this is leather edging, and is at the spots where it would provide the most benefit.

How Do I Do This?

If you enjoy doing things the hard way, or don't have a rotary punch, grab ye olde hole punch and hammer and start piercing holes in your leather strip. I've found the best spacing for the holes is about 10-15% smaller than the outer diameter of the rings. This may be vary depending on the ring type/size; I am using 9mm flat riveted rings.

(http://james-anderson-iii.com/content/tutorials/pages/mail.with.leather.edging/large/Photo0427.jpg)

Next, acquire some lacing. I'm using cheap wal-mart shoe laces; hemp or twine is more appropriate (but harder to find).

(http://james-anderson-iii.com/content/tutorials/pages/mail.with.leather.edging/large/Photo0428.jpg)

There are two ways I have used to lace the leather to the mail. I have found differences between the way the mail interacts with the leather depending on how it is laced.

To lace the mail to the leather for mail that "hangs" from the leather, such as a fauld or chausses:


With this method, the leather is on the inner (body) side of the mail. Results of this method:

(http://james-anderson-iii.com/content/tutorials/pages/mail.with.leather.edging/large/Photo0432.jpg)

(http://james-anderson-iii.com/content/tutorials/pages/mail.with.leather.edging/large/Photo0433.jpg)

To lace the mail to the leather for mail as an "edging" that does not support weight, such as the bottom or edges of a hauberk or end of it's sleeves, I use this method:


With this method, the leather is on the outer side of the mail and is more "pronounced". Results of this method:

(http://james-anderson-iii.com/custom/armory/131-0.jpg)

Notes

I sourced my leather and punch set from Brettuns Village Leather (http://brettunsvillage.com/).

The mail is from IceFalcon (http://www.icefalcon.com/).

EDIT: Here's some extra info about the lacing in the final results picture. The hanging lacing at the bottom corners is because the shoe lace that I used wasn't long enough to make the entire run, so that's just where I tied it off. I went back and tied it off on the inside, and took the "excess" loose from tying it off and tucked it into the lacing in the back. If you look on the right side of the photo, it looks like the leather strip gets thicker about 1/3 of the way up; it does. I put 6 pairs of holes in the thicker leather strip from there up to the neckline, and the really long laces go through those holes to lace it shut (I did it overlapping). The thinner part, the lower 1/3, is left open as the normal chausse split; you can see the same thing in the back. The back is solid 2/3 of the way down and I leather trimmed all the way up that opening too.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir William on 2011-12-22, 16:54:40
Nicely done, Sir James...been wanting to do this for some time now.  I just like the look of it, looks more personal.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir Gerard de Rodes on 2011-12-22, 17:47:27
Very good Sir James, thank you taking the time.
G.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir Ulrich on 2011-12-23, 01:42:37
Nice, now where to find oxblood leather edging for mine. That would look especially good on my blackened maille.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Ian on 2011-12-23, 03:53:48
Nice, now where to find oxblood leather edging for mine. That would look especially good on my blackened maille.

You can buy strips of clean veg tanned leather and dye it yourself for whatever custom color you want.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir James A on 2011-12-23, 05:22:27
Nicely done, Sir James...been wanting to do this for some time now.  I just like the look of it, looks more personal.
Very good Sir James, thank you taking the time.
G.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Nice, now where to find oxblood leather edging for mine. That would look especially good on my blackened maille.

You can buy strips of clean veg tanned leather and dye it yourself for whatever custom color you want.

Yep, what Ian said. You can pick up dye for $4 here - http://www.leatherunltd.com/care/dye/dye.html (http://www.leatherunltd.com/care/dye/dye.html)
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir William on 2011-12-23, 16:30:18
Think I'll bring my hauberk too.  :)
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir Andrew on 2011-12-24, 13:19:56
Most excellent on your work, and research Sir James! Looks very nice!
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Ian on 2013-02-19, 15:58:39
Sir James, the links to your images have become 404'd I think.  If you still have the images can you re-link them?  I'm going to try splitting my haubergeon and perhaps leather-edge the seams.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir William on 2013-02-20, 17:45:46
I did the first part, splitting the hem in front and back of my hauberk- it even made walking a bit easier.  Or maybe that was just in my mind.  lol
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-02-20, 23:44:13
Sir James, the links to your images have become 404'd I think.  If you still have the images can you re-link them?  I'm going to try splitting my haubergeon and perhaps leather-edge the seams.

Darn, no, they were from another post in the ArmourArchive thread I had under the same title. :(

I *may* have saved them on my laptop, but I'll need a few days to dig for them.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-02-26, 04:17:57
Sir James, the links to your images have become 404'd I think.  If you still have the images can you re-link them?  I'm going to try splitting my haubergeon and perhaps leather-edge the seams.

I got this thread mixed up in my head with my thread about buckles on mail, since both were about splitting the front of hauberks/haubergeons for easier on/off. The pics here were from my photobucket, that I moved in my regular domain. Here's a link to the tutorial:

http://james-anderson-iii.com/tutorials/pages/mail.with.leather.edging (http://james-anderson-iii.com/tutorials/pages/mail.with.leather.edging)

I'm updating the first post now to fix the pictures. It's over a year old, I need to finish up my revised method and post some pictures of that with proper thread too.

EDIT: I added some info in bold regarding the lacing at the bottom of the first post. Currently, the hauberk is apart for tailoring (removing excess), and the leather was removed to be re-laced with some proper waxed linen instead of shoe laces. When I can get the rivets annealed and get it tailored and back together, I'll post some updated pictures.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Ian on 2013-02-26, 12:49:37
You're the best Sir James! Thank you!
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-02-26, 17:43:12
You're the best Sir James! Thank you!

You're quite welcome, Sir Ian. Let me know if you have any questions.

Also, here's the related thread I was thinking of: http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,2156.msg30206.html#msg30206 (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,2156.msg30206.html#msg30206)
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: B. Patricius on 2013-05-10, 04:54:59
thanks for posting a link to all this.  It's really a great resource for adding an extra personal touch.
Title: Re: Mail with leather edging
Post by: Sir James A on 2013-05-10, 14:43:45
thanks for posting a link to all this.  It's really a great resource for adding an extra personal touch.

Happy to help. Which reminds me, I should mention that I've had good success using Fiebings leather dye on my newer project (redoing the fauld lacing), if you don't want to leave it in the original brown color. I got it from VikingLeathercrafts.